eBay

tninfk23 · ‎01-09-2016

I sold my old Galaxy S3 to a guy in the US. Everything seemed fine but then he opened a refund case against me saying I lied in my description and that he cannot unlock his phone now. I had unfortunately put the following line in my description: "Locked to Bell, if you want to unlock, its easy to do for free now"

To unlock the phone with the firmware on it when I sold it, you have to either flash old firmware (apparently very risky) or go to a reputable store to unlock it for you. He says he already tried a store but they failed to unlock it, I believe it was a very shady one and recommended another one to him. Anyways, to me it seems like his complaint is outside the functionality of the item and I shouldn't be liable for it, he knew what he was getting. But, Ebay likes to fark over sellers. Do I have a case?

recped · ‎01-10-2016

@tninfk23 wrote:
I sold my old Galaxy S3 to a guy in the US. Everything seemed fine but then he opened a refund case against me saying I lied in my description and that he cannot unlock his phone now. I had unfortunately put the following line in my description: "Locked to Bell, if you want to unlock, its easy to do for free now"

To unlock the phone with the firmware on it when I sold it, you have to either flash old firmware (apparently very risky) or go to a reputable store to unlock it for you. He says he already tried a store but they failed to unlock it, I believe it was a very shady one and recommended another one to him. Anyways, to me it seems like his complaint is outside the functionality of the item and I shouldn't be liable for it, he knew what he was getting. But, Ebay likes to fark over sellers. Do I have a case?

You have no case!

You said in the listing that unlocking the phone is easy...apparently it's not. The "functionality" of the item includes EVERYTHING you said about it in the listing.

"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.

maximus7001 · ‎01-10-2016

As soon as you sold that item outside of it's home network you set yourself up for issues. Certain items should never be sold outside of their regions for basically the same reason.

Such things are as follows:

video games, dvd/blue ray movies, VHS tapes, devices that operate on North American 120v ac electricity only, cell phones that are carrier locked or even unlocked ones that do not have the right frequency for some other regions, watch out for that one.

EG: Sold an unlocked samsung galaxy duos 4g non LTE phone that I was using in paris to someone here in Manitoba. They don't have LTE over there. I tested it with my fido sim card and a friends telus sim card and it worked great. Turns out that the phone's 3g/4g radio does not have the needed frequencies for North American 3g/4g towers so it only works on 2g towers here. It only seemed to work well when tested here since it was still connected to shaw go wifi (from back at the airport) when tested and we did not know it at the time. Had to buy the phone back from the buyer..

tninfk23 · ‎01-10-2016

Ugh. This phone has been a major headache for me and has now costed more to "sell" then whatever money I put it up for. I had a previous buyer who bailed out after she won the bid because she decided she didn't want it anymore.

I started the return/refund process but it says I need to buy a return shipping label. Can I buy that from Canada post? I don't see it as an option on Paypal to make a return shipping label, I did not use Paypal to make the shipping label originally. I had the postage made at the post office.

Also, the seller HAS to pay for the return shipping?

pierrelebel · ‎01-10-2016

"the seller HAS to pay for the return shipping? "

Yes.

maximus7001 · ‎01-13-2016

Forgot to mention that since he took it to a store and the store failed that now all the tries are probably used and it is most likely locked to bell Canada forever.

So when you do resell it (after testing it) make sure to not sell it outside of Canada and mention the fact that it is bell Canada locked everywhere imany times n your listing and the title. Do not ship it until you confirm with the buyer that they know 100% that it is locked to bell Canada and it will NOT work with any other carrier.

mr.elmwood · ‎01-13-2016

Unless it is 100% unlocked, I would toss it. Moved from Belleville ON to Dauphin MB and phones would not work. Same country, same network, different something else.

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rose-dee · ‎01-13-2016

@pierrelebel wrote:
"the seller HAS to pay for the return shipping? "

Yes.

Allow me to elaborate, for the OP's benefit.

If the buyer is located in the U.S. and has made a claim for a return/refund on an Item Not as Described basis, then the buyer is covered under the eBay Money Back Guarantee, and the seller is responsible for paying return shipping.

From the eBay MBG (for INAD claims):

"When an item is returned to the seller

The buyer must return the item in the same condition in which it was received.
The seller is required to accept the return at the same location specified in the listing.
The cost of return shipping is the seller's responsibility. For return of items with a total cost of $750 or more, we require signature confirmation.
The seller pays for any customs charges on the returned item."

For reference, here is the link to the details on the MBG. I would encourage the OP to read through it carefully, as there are time limits imposed on sellers to resolve such a claim.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html#conditions1

To the OP: Your biggest problem is going to be getting a shipping label to the buyer (almost impossible unless you live close to the U.S. border and can cross over and buy it yourself). Probably the only realistic choice is to look up the appropriate (tracked) shipping service rate on the USPS site and either confirm to the buyer that you'll reimburse him for both the shipping and the item once it's received, or else pay the money to the buyer up front to cover shipping. You can send him a screen shot of the applicable USPS rate page.

Personally, I'd probably do the latter (pay the buyer up front for return shipping). Not only is this a gesture of good faith on the seller's part, but if the buyer doesn't return the item, at least your losses (and defects) are minimized.

Whichever method you choose, I'd suggest doing it quickly so that the buyer has some confidence he'll get his money back, and doesn't turn to eBay to step in, at which point eBay will simply refund the buyer and you'll be left with a whole lot more trouble than you have now.

By the way, I do agree with the others about the responsibilities of a seller when listing electronics.

mr.elmwood · ‎01-13-2016

Let's see if I have this right. You, the seller, misrepresented a phone. You guaranteed it would work as described and it will not. For this, you blame eBay?

So, now, you want this now worthless phone returned to you. You will need to pay the buyer all costs of returning, tracking, insurance, etc. This is going to cost you another $20 or so on top of the full refund you already owe the buyer.

What you need to do, right now, is refund the buyer, in full.

Now what do you want? Do you want the phone back? Why? You get it back, it will have been messed with, as per your instructions to the buyer.

At some point, you need to cut your losses.

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rose-dee · ‎01-13-2016

I'm afraid (for the OP's sake) I have to agree with 'Mr. Elmwood'.

To the OP: You've already had a previous issue with this phone. When you get it back, possibly tampered with beyond redemption, what will it really be worth as an item to sell? Will attempting to re-sell it cause you even more trouble, as was suggested above?

I don't mean to be unsympathetic, because it appears you are a fairly new (or just occasional seller). Frankly I ultimately place some of the blame on eBay for making it sound so simple for new or occasional sellers to just "get rid of things you don't need or want". I see those enticements a lot on eBay, and I groan every time. The truth is that it's anything but simple to sell on eBay. You have just unfortunately discovered one example of why.

If you are an occasional or one-off seller, it's hard to take the "cut your losses" attitude, but another defect or open/unresolved case due to attempting to re-sell this phone could place you in a position of being downgraded by eBay to the point of invisibility. If your sales volume isn't large enough to take the hit, it could seriously affect your ability to sell at all.

mr.elmwood · ‎01-13-2016

@rose-dee wrote:
I'm afraid (for the OP's sake) I have to agree with 'Mr. Elmwood'.

To the OP: You've already had a previous issue with this phone. When you get it back, possibly tampered with beyond redemption, what will it really be worth as an item to sell? Will attempting to re-sell it cause you even more trouble, as was suggested above?

I don't mean to be unsympathetic, because it appears you are a fairly new (or just occasional seller). Frankly I ultimately place some of the blame on eBay for making it sound so simple for new or occasional sellers to just "get rid of things you don't need or want". I see those enticements a lot on eBay, and I groan every time. The truth is that it's anything but simple to sell on eBay. You have just unfortunately discovered one example of why.

If you are an occasional or one-off seller, it's hard to take the "cut your losses" attitude, but another defect or open/unresolved case due to attempting to re-sell this phone could place you in a position of being downgraded by eBay to the point of invisibility. If your sales volume isn't large enough to take the hit, it could seriously affect your ability to sell at all.

Co-worker of my wife. Very smart lady. Regional health care manager. Teaches Stamp It crafting. She asks me about eBay and I cut her off with "NO". She is already losing money on the crafting she teaches, it would be a no-brainer to keep losing money on eBay: "I need something to do after I retire".

Making it on eBay is like the NHL. Hundreds of thousands try for it, and a few dozen get to The Show every year.

As my friend says: "Interests are free, business makes money, a hobby costs money". For the vast majority, eBay is an interest or a hobby.

Yeah, eBay makes it sound so simple. As our OP found out, it is far from simple.

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rose-dee · ‎01-14-2016

@mr.elmwood wrote:

Yeah, eBay makes it sound so simple. As our OP found out, it is far from simple.

I just realized it appears we've been talking about a ca. $80 phone sale. For that money, I'd just cut through all the dross and avoid further pain, wasted time and unnecessary issues: refund the buyer nicely (to avoid negative FB) and move on.

It would generate a defect, but that defect would likely go away after Feb. 20th as "seller resolution of an INAD".

But then I'm speaking from a business perspective, and I'd want to stop my losses before they caused me even more loss. There's a saying about that: "Avoid throwing good money after bad".

mr.elmwood · ‎01-14-2016

I have known people who spent $2000 fixing a car so they can sell it for $1500.

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rose-dee · ‎01-14-2016

LOL. Sounds like a house I once owned (and sold). I should be crying, not laughing.

maximus7001 · ‎01-14-2016

"Moved from Belleville ON to Dauphin MB and phones would not work. Same country, same network, different something else."

The explanation for that is as follows:

I am thinking you had an ancient 2g rogers/telus phone meant for city folk (who have had 2g towers since 1998). When MTS finally got with the times and switched to sim card phones they made a deal with rogers and telus and shared the cost of putting in "new" 3g towers in places like thompson, dauphin ect. that previously only had analog/cdma towers that only worked for MTS customers or americans that had cdma phones. Rogers/fido called this their "expanded 3g network" It would not make any sense to put up old 2g towers at that time. That would be like the mint starting to make pennies again.

So in the end your phone problem is MTS's fault for being backwards and holding out with ancient non sim card technology for more than 10 years too long and never having 2g sim card towers to begin with.

MTS was the last carrier in Canada to do this, indirectly affecting other carrier's customer's as well. I was affected by this on a trip to Thompson in 2012. My fido nokia phone was bought in 2003. That made ME get with the times and get an android smart phone that works everywhere in the world no matter what.

The OP has a good $100 US phone. It was just not sold the right way. I sold my old fido locked s3 to a fido customer through ebay a few months ago and easily got $100US for it. It had 47 bids. I just make sure I don't shoot myself in the foot when selling region specific items.