CHARGEBACK dispute

I love it when you get a chargeback claim, paypal doesn't get in touch with you about it.

If I didn't go to my paypal account to check up on something else I would have missed it.

New ebayer said he did buy the item - of course it would have to be a $100.00 item sent to the UK.

Well I filled in the claim, which of course I will LOSE!

But, then I sent a note through ebay to the seller to ask what happened with the order.

I also sent him an email to his private email account - to let him know that I was going to CP to start an investigation into whether he received the item, and if he did and was keeping it and trying to get his money back, that I would be taking legal action, in brackets I said, (I hope this was not the case and that it was just a misunderstanding on his part.) 🙂

Well what a glorious day....;-)
Message 1 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

lina-mallows
Community Member
dipmicro - If such be the case- then SHELL OIL a DUTCH company, should bill you for your gasoline purchase- through their DUTCH HEAD OFFICE, and not through the gas station where you purchase your gasoline.
This way- the Gasoline station is paid by HEAD OFFICE in the NETHERLANDS- and the billing through that same head office would exempt you of all the gasoline taxes!!!!

I think not.

pierrelebel - if eBay were to be proven to have "servers" or "mirror servers" in Canada- would this discussion be moot?
Message 21 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

As far as eBay is concerned, the service they provide "listing an item for sale through their websites (.com .ca etc)" is done is San Jose, California.

In January 2002 I visited the "War Room" where all the 'stuff' takes place. It was huge then and I can only imagine how huge it is today. The .ca is only an extension and the 'stuff' is on the same servers.

Having back up or mirror servers elsewhere would not legally change the status of the service being provided from sources outsice Canada, hence not taxable.

Foreign ownership has nothing to do with GST/HST. It is strictly where is the service provided. These things are highly technical.

For example, did you know that if you are located in Ontario and you ship a parcel to a buyer in New Brunswick by regular parcel post, Canada Post will charge you 5% GST at time of purchasing the postage.

If you ship the same parcel to the same buyer through the same Canada Post outlet in Ontario but shipping by Priority Post or Purolator, you will be charged 13% HST.

That is the law. It is based on technicalities involving "bill of lading".

Want to beat the system? Purchase postage stamps, pay 5% GST and lick them to the parcel! .
Quality stamps from Canada, British Commonwealth and Worldwide at Wholesale Prices
Message 22 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

Happy reading:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/gm/28-2/28-2-e.html .
Quality stamps from Canada, British Commonwealth and Worldwide at Wholesale Prices
Message 23 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

Meaning of destination

18. The term "destination" is relevant to the place of supply rules for freight transportation services. Destination means the place specified by the shipper (usually on the bill of lading) where possession of the property is to be transferred to the person to whom the property is consigned or addressed by the shipper. .
Quality stamps from Canada, British Commonwealth and Worldwide at Wholesale Prices
Message 24 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

lina-mallows
Community Member
And who out there still thinks that these discussion boards can't be educational?
Thank you Pierre!
Message 25 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

should bill you for your gasoline purchase- through their DUTCH HEAD OFFICE, and not through the gas station

If gas was intangible item, or mail-order item, they might do it.
Message 26 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

Pierre, so if I rent the server space from GoDaddy (California Inc), and resell the service to Canadians, I should not charge them GST because the service is performed outside Canada?

I always thought the tax is charged based on the billing, but I am no accountant, I just based this on real experience:

1) When I sell something in Canada, I have to collect GST and sometimes HST/PST. When I sell something outside Canada, I do not collect any taxes.

2) I co-own a Ltd in Slovakia (EU) but this is irrelevant for my Canadian business tax and my Canadian activities are irrelevant to my European Ltd. If I sell something to my European Ltd, it would be like exporting to any other European subject regardless of the ownership. If I buy something from my European Ltd, it would be subject to import regulations. Right?

Here is another examples:

DigiKey and Newark are both electronic components distributors from USA with Canadian websites. They both have Canadian billing, DigiKey in Alberta and Newark in Ontario.

Both ship from US warehouses, both collect GST. DigiKey does not collect Ontario PST but Newark does.

Based on the above it seems to me that invoicer address is more important than where the service is physically rendered.
Message 27 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

Its unbelievable how scamming has increased since we cannot leave negative for purchasers. I have never had so many non-paying bidders, "unauthorized transactions", so many "lost" items and so much trouble as in the last few months !!! ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS !!! I AM GETTING SO SICK OF E-BAY !!
Message 28 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

"They both have Canadian billing, DigiKey in Alberta and Newark in Ontario."

The difference here is that these guys sell goods (not services), delivery of the goods taking place in Canada where the goods will be used.

Many US based exporters of goods are registered with GST/HST for the convenience of their Canadian customers (importers), allowing them to prepay taxes, speed up the process and avoid brokerage charge and delays. Dell Computers is one of the largest, shipping from Texas and registered to charge both taxes.

As far as eBay is concerned, the service itself is performed (delivered) in California, not in Canada. While the service may be for the benefit of a Canadian, the service itself is performed in the USA, just as when I buy an advertisement in the Scott Catalogue or in Linns magazine, even when some of these publications reach Canadian buyers.

eBay pays their legal firm zillions of dollars every year to take care of their stuff. I wish I could do the same. 😉

In Europe (and possibly elsewhere), the governments changed the rules forcing eBay to remit VAT (equivalent to our GST) on fees collected from British and Europeans. .
Quality stamps from Canada, British Commonwealth and Worldwide at Wholesale Prices
Message 29 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

Well now that we are way off the subject, I thought I would update you on my saga of the chargeback dispute and my war with a customer who wants something for nothing.

Remember how I said I would keep sending notes to support my claim:

Well here is note #2 day 3 of the buyer claim:
Here is the information from the 2 transactions mentioned in the other note.

This buyer purchased 2 vehicles on the same day July 20, 2008.

1) Mine listed as Xmods Evolution Transformers Bumblebee Starter Kit New. #360072225009, buyer paid with paypal on July 20, 2008. Bought at a FIXED price of $75US.

2) 2nd vehicle bought from Seller *************. Xmods Transformers Barricade Mustang Starter Kit #310066940415, bought on July 20, 2008, with a buy it now price of $29US.

Both vehicles were bought on the same day!

Mine was paid with paypal and I am quite sure so was the other one.

To pay with paypal, you have to have a password, no one can just go in and use your account. Funny how both vehicles were purchased on the same day, and paid for on the same day and now the buyer says he didn't authorize mine. STRANGE don't you think?

I used paypal to send the package to the address supplied by paypal, I have done everything that paypal and ebay has asked. Transaction # ************, Shipping label transaction # ************. I live in CANADA and ship from CANADA, I have little options on how to do this.

As you can see the 2 vehicles are very different in price, the vehicle he bought from me cost way more for me to purchase than the one he bought from the other seller, this buyer had a CHOICE not to purchase from me, and he choose to. NOW he doesn't want it, so he initiates this claim.

BUYER'S REMORSE is a powerful thing, but to penalize me for that decision is not FAIR. The buyer needs to take some responsibility for his actions.

IF he doesn't want the item, I WANT IT BACK, in the same condition I sent it to him. This item WAS BRAND New, the picture in my ad is the picture of the actually car in the box, the only thing is I did was to put new batteries in the box.

Thanks you for your consideration of this matter, Loré;-)
Message 30 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

dagr8_renaud
Community Member
cottonwoodindustries

I feel for you , tho stop wasting energy , Paypal will always favor the buyer .. Only thing that might work is if you use your lawyer to scare paypal and tell them what they are doing is illegal ( if it is ) tho it will be very hard since you agreed to there so call user agreement , some of the stuff in there user agreement goes against Canadian laws so you can win on those but is it worth the money and time ?
got burned once buyer kept money and products , I dare anyone of you to ship me a package worth more then 300$ with no signature and no tracking number ... Of course I wouldnt ... or Would I ?

So I ship my item via EMS and I get poor shipping rate DSR , btw I am now above 4.9 in all others in my 30 day average because of my slightly improved customer service , I still down on shipping rates ( 4.55) good news is (if anyone noticed) now eBay's average is below 4.6 so they only require me to get 4.5
Message 31 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

I never had case like this, once I had an angry parent emailing me her kid made the purchase from me "illegaly". Not that this is my problem (it's between her and her kid really) but I always cancel the transaction if customer makes their mind before it ships.

So never having situation like this, I can only theorize. First of all, give him benefit of the doubt: what if he truly did not purchase this? Are you as a seller protected by some PayPal policy? Plus if he did not purchase it, he should be more than happy to return it unopened.

What about contacting local police in the buyer's town. If they are are truly a scammer, you are very likely not a first or last person they scammed. Police just might be interested to check them out and what do you know, maybe your case provides a missing piece of insight they need to catch the guy.

I am pretty sure the policeman at the door asking questions will scare the scammer more than some useless fancy letter from lawyer across the ocean.
Message 32 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

dagr8_renaud
Community Member
yea I am protected by paypal, by there extended protection actually witch allows me to ship to unconfirmed address and still get protection , but the way it works you need delivery confirmation ( and signature ) or NO protection. the lawyer letter is directed at paypal not at the buyer, I am not sure how it works but I am thinking if you have proof of delivery and paypal still lets he buyer win ( like they do) you can try to scare paypal a bit and win (some did win already) , just google paypal dispute you ll find tons of 'horror' stories and stories of ppl who actually won over paypal .
Message 33 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

dipmicro
Love the getting in touch with the police in their hometown, I am going to do that.

Right at this moment I have relatives that are in Britain visiting for the next 3 months, is would be very interesting if they turned up on their doorstep, just another thought.

dagr8_renaud
I do not think I am wasting my time, I am actually having fun with this.

I am going to pull out all the stops until I win!!!

If I don't then I will be beating all the bushes and make tons of noise!!!

I guess a way to protect ourselves from newbies pulling this crap is to require buyers with less than 10 feedback, to pay by money orders only, tooooo bad we couldn't do that!!!

Or can we?
Message 34 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

lina-mallows
Community Member
Let's not forget that eBay provides us with tools- like requiring that a buyer HAS a PayPal account BEFORE bidding.
Or- a BUY IT NOW auction can request IMMEDIATE PayPal Payment.

BLOCKING a bad buyer- has some value, but many can slip through.
We have our BUYER REQUIREMENTS defaults set at:
Have received 2 Unpaid Item strike(s) within 12 Month(s).
Have 4 Policy Violation report(s) within 6 Month(s).
Have a feedback score of -1 or lower
Are currently winning or have bought 25 of my items in the last 10 days and have a feedback score of 1 or lower

Seller don't have many ways to thwart a determined bad buyer-0 but we do have some. And, we should use them for what they are worth.
Message 35 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

bare_bright
Community Member
yes I sure agree, Crime is way up here, since sellers are not allowed to leave neuts or negs

I have never had so many unpaid items, it's crazy just last month I had 23 unpaid items, the buyers know that the worst thing can happen is a unpaid item strike lol

Do you really think ebay would stop them from buying again, I think not

another new thing has evolved, my listing state paypal only and since the feedback changes I get 20% of buyers who email me after they buy or win a item "I WILL BE SENDING PAYMENT SHORTLY" WHICH IS A BIG JOKE 80% OF THE TIME , THEY DON'T SEND IN THE FUNDS.

oh well life on ebay

Tibor 🙂
T.J.
Message 36 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

"my listing state paypal only "

If you mean that you should change your preferences to PayPal required, eliminating the problem. .
Quality stamps from Canada, British Commonwealth and Worldwide at Wholesale Prices
Message 37 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

Well,
This will be my last note concerning this claim.

It seems that buyers today think they can buy items off ebay, pay with paypal, receive the item and then claim they never authorized that transaction.

I have spoken to so many powersellers who are having the same problems. And paypal has not had a great track record when resolving this type of claim, refunding money back to the buyer, even when the buyer left positive feedback saying they received the item and love it.

What assurances do we as sellers have, when we follow all the instructions laid out by paypal and ebay, only to be screwed by the same agencies.

I am a small seller, I provide the best service I can, I research every item I list, I do not overcharge on shipping, and I describe everything to the best on my ability.

SO Depending on the outcome of this action:

I will be forwarding all information gathered from this transaction to my lawyers: Wa**** Goe*** Mal*** in Vancouver, BC and the Police in Brentwood, Essex, UK, where the buyer lives.

IF this buyer is trying to use the internet to fraudulently get merchandise for free and I will report him to the appropriate authorities, so this doesn't happen to someone else.

Thanks for your understanding of my frustration, this has happened to me once already this year, but thank GOD I had a great buyer who even paid the $10 penalty you charged me for a mistake my buyer made.

She got in touch with paypal many times to straighten out the mistake but no one listened and I was penalized for it. Paypal refunded her money and charged me $10 for the privilege. My buyer felt so bad that she paid for the item again and included the extra $10. There are not to many buyers that would do that and she truly was a gem.

Thanks again, and I hope you look at all the evidence supplied, Sincerely Loré

Who knows maybe, maybe someone might look at the claim, a little different, but I am not going to hold my breathe, but you never know stranger things has happened:-x
Message 38 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

You could always adopt the policy I developed as a result of the rampant claims/chargebacks since the feedback change in April... In fact if you want 2 so you can give one to a fellow powerseller, I am having a 2 for 1 sale
:^O
Message 39 of 41
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CHARGEBACK dispute

Well I just found this in my email account today (dont know where it has been hiding till now) but I found this interesting about chargebacks.

We were recently notified that one of your buyers filed a chargeback by asking their credit card company to reverse a payment made to you on Jul 20, 2008.
The buyer claims he or she did not make this purchase. The buyer's credit card company wants additional information from you about this transaction.
-----------------------------------
Transaction details
-----------------------------------
Buyer's Name:M......l H.......a
Buyer's Email:g...........@yahoo.com
Buyer's Transaction ID: 4L...........432P

Transaction Date:Jul 20, 2008
Transaction Amount:
Case #:PP-528-059-...

Your Transaction ID: 4L........32P

Chargeback is a process initiated outside of PayPal by the credit cardholder, and the outcome of the chargeback is decided by the credit card company, not by PayPal.

One of the unique benefits of using PayPal is that we help you fight unwarranted chargebacks.
-----------------------------------
What to do next
-----------------------------------
Please log in to your PayPal account and go to the Resolution Center to provide additional information about this transaction.

Please submit your response within 10 calendar days of the date of this email, so that we can dispute this chargeback for you.

The credit card company determines chargeback timeframes and outcomes. Once PayPal sends the credit card company your information, it may take up to 75 days for the credit card company to make a final decision.

Because the credit card company has received a chargeback on this transaction, we may place a temporary hold on the funds associated with this transaction until this case is resolved.

For more information about how to protect your funds against chargebacks,go to:https://www.paypal.com/cachargebacks
-----------------------------------
Other Details
-----------------------------------
There are no other details regarding this transaction at this time.
Sincerely,
PayPal
Chargeback Department
Email: chargeback-response@intl.paypal.com
Fax: +1-402-537-5755

INTERESTING, guess that wasn't my last note, because I was really talking to Paypal and not the credit card company.
Message 40 of 41
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