eBay

kerstingunnel · ‎06-22-2013

Since 2009 I have been and am a VERY happy eBay buyer. The recent surge of US based eBay sellers partnering with GSP, however, has me scratch my head. From what I can tell, it postures to solve a completely non-existing problem while creating a very tangible and substantial one.

In the years I have been buying on eBay, a shipment to me from the US has NEVER ONCE been halted at the Canadian Border Agency to accrue charges of broker's fees, sales taxes and import charges. I have NOT PAID A CENT EVER in such charges for shipments originating from US based eBay sellers. Shipments can be halted, but in my own experience, they rarely, if ever, are.

For each and every purchase from a seller who is partnering with GSP, however, such charges are paid (probably in addition to monies paid to eBay and GSP for their hand in the arrangement) and paid substantially. In a typical eBay transaction an item won at $26 cost $11.50 to ship and $9.51 (!!!) in GSP import charges.

Postal rates have gone up steeply for international shipping recently, adding to the sudden increase in the cost of shipping to Canada..

EBay may not be able to influence US postal costs, but the GSP partnership with eBay vendors is definitely an area of eBay's direct control and prerogative.

I will not buy from an eBay business who partners with GSP.

This year we Canadians number 35 million people and I'm sure that there are many of them who LOVE eBay as much as I do. Since this is a substantial market, I think it would be exceedingly foolish and myopic of eBay to jeopardize it altogether by taking GSP on board. Several eBay sellers I have contacted say that if the partnership becomes mandatory, they will cease to offer their listings to Canadians. Some have tried to work with GSP and find immediately that it doesn't serve them or their Canadian customers well - they have subsequently backed out of the partnership. Many have figured out beforehand and on their own that it wouldn't be in their interest or that of their Canadian customers and they have not opted for bringing GSP on board. All sellers say that they are encouraged by eBay to partner with GSP.

Every seller I have discussed this issue with was under the impression that this a valuable service devised to streamline the buying process and solve existing problems for their Canadian customers. This is, then, patently untrue. If this is how eBay, against their better knowing, "sells" the GSP program to their vendors, eBay actively misleads them. If eBay is unaware of the real state of affairs in regards to import charges, it ought to look into the factual situation more diligently before making such a serious move. It appears to be a predatory and parasitic practise.

It seems, thus, that the arrangement benefits GSP, eBay and the coffers of Canada. It doesn't benefit eBay vendors or their Canadian customers. In the end, since we all coexist and are interdependent, if it chokes or severely affects the Canadian market, only GSP and the government of Canada come out the winners, not eBay, not eBay sellers, not Canadian eBay buyers.

Other US based on-line businesses are partnered with similar programs for shipping to Canadian customers, which is one of the reasons I always prefer to buy on eBay.

Why fix what works perfectly well without fixing?

lpwasy · ‎08-19-2013

"Isn't the GSP a choice too?"

"Sellers have a choice as to whether or not to use it.

Apparently not, many sellers have been signed up automatically and it does initially make things a bit easier for them yet they are not aware of the jeopardy to the buyer. Crafty set-up by ebay, it's a tasty little carrot for the seller who is too lazy to bother with filling out the customs form himself. Perhaps sellers will be aware of the jeopardy to the buyer and themselves when they choke on that carrot in the form of lower sales.

"Buyers have a choice as to whether or not to purchase from a seller who uses it."

Similar to the choices available to a crack addict.

"And the GSP certainly isn't illegal."

No it isn't but it is sneaky, did they ever forewarn any buyers? Certainly not me, why would they when they are sneaking under the fence?

marnotom and luckypierre, since you guys seem to have sole access to the truth. Does this one destination shipping enable the shipper to bulk ship to PB? If so he would be able to save on shipping, would that be passed on to the seller? I think not as he has already paid the postage.

So the seller could actually make money on shipping costs and he won't mind paying a cut to ebay, after all they are making it possible, and at that why would he opt out of GSP. And who pays for it............you're lookin at him.

pierrelebel · ‎08-19-2013

As stated over and over, GSP is not a very good program for most Canadian buyers, most of the time.

I am not sure what you mean by "...did they ever forewarn any buyers? Certainly not me, ..."

Are you referring to the Vintage Pocket Watch purchased a month ago, listing #360694133925 ?

In that listing, the following are indicated, both on the front page and in the payment and shipping section:

Shipping:$16.58 International Priority Shipping to Canada

Import charges: $10.54 (estimated and based on current bid)

Were you charged more than stated? If $10.54 was factual, you were charged less through GSP than you would have paid at the Post Office (tax + $9.95 fee)

If not, what exactly is the problem? or does it involve a different listing?

i*m-still-here · ‎08-19-2013

marnotom: I really was talking about Bacon and Orange Juice because your analogy didn't work for me.

I don't see the connection.

The GSP makes an already trying terrain more difficult for buyers.

It adds nothing to the buying experience and takes a lot away from it.

That's pretty much unanimous.

This isn't about an aversion to paying taxes.

It's about resenting P-B meddling in transactions, and making what should be a simple process difficult.

Australians don't really pay taxes on eBay items, and they hate it as much as we do.

I can only read the English boards (the UK agrees) but I'm sure that the rest agree as well.

I tried posting the link to the Australian discussion board but couldn't, but if you go there and search out the GSP you'll see what I'm talking about.

lpwasy · ‎08-19-2013

Pierrelebel,

And I am sure it will be stated over and over again; over and over again.

My forewarn comment does not involve any particular listing however just so you know that item was purchaed outside of the GSP program. The seller was signed up without his knowledge.

What I mean by forewarned is there was no prior notice of the program itself. . With anything that is an advantage to anyone there is a bit of a rollout, an email in advance explaining how whatever program/promotion will work. With GSP there was nothing that I ever heard ahead of time., they snuck it in the back door.

pocomocomputing · ‎08-20-2013

@lpwasy wrote:
Pierrelebel,

And I am sure it will be stated over and over again; over and over again.

My forewarn comment does not involve any particular listing however just so you know that item was purchaed outside of the GSP program. The seller was signed up without his knowledge.

What I mean by forewarned is there was no prior notice of the program itself. With anything that is an advantage to anyone there is a bit of a rollout, an email in advance explaining how whatever program/promotion will work. With GSP there was nothing that I ever heard ahead of time, they snuck it in the back door.

The GSP was announced in August 2012.

Below is the first topic in the eBay Canada forums started on the GSP way back then.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/eBay-com-USA-International-shipping-new-system-to-be-laun...

I got my info on the GSP from an ecommerceBytes article below (also mentioned in the topic above).

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y12/m08/i23/s02

So the GSP has been discussed since it beginnings in the forums on eBay.ca and ebay.com and many other topics and posts have been made since as the GSP details evolved and was implemented.

pocomocomputing · ‎08-20-2013

Official eBay announcement on eBay.com on November 1st 2012.

http://announcements.ebay.com/2012/11/attention-sellers-upcoming-program-will-make-selling-internati...

There have been periodic announcements on the GSP as countries were added. Here is a list of a few of the official eBay announcements.

http://announcements.ebay.com/?s=global+shipping

Now these announcemnts are for Sellers since they would decide to use the program.

Were there any buyer announcements? I do not know. So perhaps you are correct that buyers were not given warnings about this program. I do not know.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-20-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:

The GSP makes an already trying terrain more difficult for buyers.
It adds nothing to the buying experience and takes a lot away from it.

That's pretty much unanimous.
This isn't about an aversion to paying taxes.
It's about resenting P-B meddling in transactions, and making what should be a simple process difficult.

Australians don't really pay taxes on eBay items, and they hate it as much as we do.
I can only read the English boards (the UK agrees) but I'm sure that the rest agree as well.

I tried posting the link to the Australian discussion board but couldn't, but if you go there and search out the GSP you'll see what I'm talking about.

Pretty much unanimous? .

If you are basing your assumption on the number of negative posts on the boards, that isn't reliable. There are always more negative than positive posts about various subjects on the boards. We see many posts about problems with a buyer or seller but we rarely see positive posts about that subject. Does that mean that it is 'pretty much' unanimous that most transactions on ebay have problems?

I get it that you don't like the GSP......and we might agree on some points about it...however, you are only speaking for yourself, not the masses. 🙂

marnotom! · ‎08-20-2013

@lpwasy wrote:
"Isn't the GSP a choice too?"

"Sellers have a choice as to whether or not to use it.

Apparently not, many sellers have been signed up automatically and it does initially make things a bit easier for them yet they are not aware of the jeopardy to the buyer. Crafty set-up by ebay, it's a tasty little carrot for the seller who is too lazy to bother with filling out the customs form himself. Perhaps sellers will be aware of the jeopardy to the buyer and themselves when they choke on that carrot in the form of lower sales.

"Buyers have a choice as to whether or not to purchase from a seller who uses it."

Similar to the choices available to a crack addict.

"And the GSP certainly isn't illegal."

No it isn't but it is sneaky, did they ever forewarn any buyers? Certainly not me, why would they when they are sneaking under the fence?

marnotom and luckypierre, since you guys seem to have sole access to the truth. Does this one destination shipping enable the shipper to bulk ship to PB? If so he would be able to save on shipping, would that be passed on to the seller? I think not as he has already paid the postage.

So the seller could actually make money on shipping costs and he won't mind paying a cut to ebay, after all they are making it possible, and at that why would he opt out of GSP. And who pays for it............you're lookin at him.

The sense I have so far is that the sellers who have been mysteriously "opted into" the GSP are ones who didn't read the last .com user agreement update closely enough and ended up clicking on something that was an agreement to accept the GSP into their little hearts. I'm keeping an open mind, though, and await evidence of something more nefarious on eBay's part.

As for "forewarning" buyers, Pierre's already gone into some detail on this. I'd also add that all GSP listings have "learn more" links and question mark buttons on them for those who don't know about it. The information is there for buyers who take the time to read the listings and use the tools on the listings that are available to them.

It's really not tough to see when a listing uses the Global Shipping Program.

As for your "bulk shipping" question, seeing as the seller only receives funds to cover his stated shipping rate for the item to Erlanger, KY, I'm not sure where a bulk shipping discount could be factored in since, as you suggest, the international portion of the shipment is attached to the buyer, not the seller. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of special eBay rate for the shipping, though. Am I understanding your question correctly?

marnotom! · ‎08-20-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:
marnotom: I really was talking about Bacon and Orange Juice because your analogy didn't work for me.
I don't see the connection.

The GSP makes an already trying terrain more difficult for buyers.
It adds nothing to the buying experience and takes a lot away from it.

That's pretty much unanimous.
This isn't about an aversion to paying taxes.
It's about resenting P-B meddling in transactions, and making what should be a simple process difficult.

Australians don't really pay taxes on eBay items, and they hate it as much as we do.
I can only read the English boards (the UK agrees) but I'm sure that the rest agree as well.

I tried posting the link to the Australian discussion board but couldn't, but if you go there and search out the GSP you'll see what I'm talking about.

You keep saying stuff about the GSP making things "difficult" and "taking a lot away" from the buying experience, but I really have no idea what you mean by this. Once again, how about explaining what you mean by this? I'm inclined to believe that the big problem you have with the GSP is that sellers can't easily shed it as an option on a listing and offer the alternatives you prefer. If that's the case, why not just spell it out instead of sounding like an advert for laxatives?

As for the Australian experience, a link would have helped but what I found seemed pretty outdated. If you actually look up some GSP listings on the Australian eBay site, you'll see that most of them don't have import charges on them now reflecting Australia's tax free limit of AU$1000.

marnotom! · ‎08-20-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:

I really was talking about Bacon and Orange Juice because your analogy didn't work for me.
I don't see the connection.

You said that the GSP was bad for us. Bacon is also bad for us, yet with bacon you say that people have a choice as to whether or not to use it. I maintain that belief should hold for the GSP as well. Sellers need to figure out whether it will work with their sales or not and buyers need to figure out whether it's worthwhile to pursue an item being listed in such a matter.

So some buyers miss out occasionally because that one of a kind item isn't being shipped to their liking? First World problem.

As for orange juice, it's bad for some people, good for other people. I'm not going to make orange juice illegal just because it's a problem for me. Probably a more apt analogy for the GSP than bacon.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-20-2013

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

If you are basing your assumption on the number of negative posts on the boards, that isn't reliable. There are always more negative than positive posts about various subjects

PJ, that is so NOT TRUE. When we are happy with a change, we are right there posting about it.

We're not shy about that at all. (The way FB is left for buyers for example.)

That does not occur with the GSP.

Someone posts that the GSP sucks and there is general agreement.

Yes, there are a few posters (two, three?) on this board defending it, and even they aren't all that enthusiastic.

Moreover, I've never had the impression that the defense from either comes from hands on buying experience.

The defense as far as I can see is purely theoretical and abstract.

Has anyone ever commented that: …………….. "Oh man, I'm so glad that they brought in the GSP. Solved my problems buying from the US. Shipping costs and import fees used to be such a hassle and now the GSP simplified it all."

Not on my radar...............

I've read one post stating that the experience was a positive one, and that was a wonky situation.

This person seemed to be buying new items which would require duty plus taxes and so the processing would not be the same as the used items people are posting about.. She may have been accustomed to getting nailed for import fees.

In addition, that buyer lived in the Toronto area which seems to be a P-B hub and so she could cash in very inexpensive Expedited shipping from the hub which is not true for most buyers.

Posts describing negative experiences with the GSP are all over the world.

So, yes, it seems "pretty much' unanimous. Nothing is 100%……… but this close.

(That was posted really BIG....... sorry but that's the only way I can see it and I forgot to shrink it. )

pierrelebel · ‎08-20-2013

"Moreover, I've never had the impression that the defense from either comes from hands on buying experience.

The defense as far as I can see is purely theoretical and abstract."

That is too cute to let it pass.

From your own posts, you have had ONE and only ONE experience purchasing through GSP and it was not a negative experience.

One can easily extrapolate that all your negative posts (and there have been many) and hatred toward the program are, using your own words, " purely theoretical and abstract."

pierrelebel · ‎08-20-2013

Also, you have often stated "I say that there is nothing to debate regarding the GSP "

So why do you keep debating?

Most Canadian buyers agree that the program offered for the benefits of American sellers is not positive for most transactions. Why not leave it at that and move on?

i*m-still-here · ‎08-20-2013

Ooooohhh. Cute is good. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I LIKE that!!!

The fact that I don't buy via the GSP attests to the fact that it's a HORRIBLE deal.

I'm passing on fabulous items shipped via the GSP because the GSP makes these transactions untenable.

I don't understand your point as it clearly supports what I've been saying all along and I doubt very much that that was your intention.

Ya.......... and I did kinda get sucked into the GSP posts, didn't I???

pierrelebel · ‎08-20-2013

"I don't understand your point as it clearly supports what I've been saying all along"

I am sorry you do not understand. There is not much I can do about that, is there?

And no I do not support your comments about "hating" the program, nor the fact it is "horrible" and similar adjectives you have used to describe GSP as you clearly do not understand it.

As stated several times, the program generally does not benefit most Canadian buyers in most instances. It was created to benefit American sellers and I suspect it does in many instances.

Canadian buyers in most instances will make the decision not to buy from an American seller offering the program, unless it is an item they really want and the price they can afford and the item may not have been offered by that seller without GSP (that is the point of the program after all).

i*m-still-here · ‎08-20-2013

Pierre, the reason I don't understand what you're trying to say is because it does not make sense.

You are saying that unless I buy via the GSP I can't assess it.

I'm saying that I don't buy via the GSP because I have assessed it many many many times, and it's clearly hands down a bad deal.

I'd be a fool to jump into that fire. I already know it's gonna burn.

Is it a bad deal for other buyers in general all over the world?

According to the posts it is.

Are there exceptions? Of course there are.

However, they are so very very few ........... one has to dig deep to find them ............... so what is the point?

As for American sellers........... That's another story and complicated and perhaps one for the .com seller's board.

I know that items with high shipping costs sell for much less............. and the GSP almost certainly will have higher shipping costs than almost all other items will...........but as I said that's one for US sellers to debate.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-20-2013

Everyone has their view on the subject & we have seen the same views for some time now.

Again, it it works for you fine, seems to work for sellers that have been taken advantage of in the past, if it doesn't it doesn't.

Like Pierre has mentioned in the past, lets keep the thread open in regards to refunds in relation to the GSP program.

Now that is an important issue.

Better to debate more important issues, Hijack Alert The Blue Jays Pitching Staff comes to mind.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-20-2013

Holy holly Pierre!!!!

Please........... not again.

The heading on this particular GSP thread it "CANADIAN BUYERS AND THE GSP."

It's not about refunds, but there are other threads specifically regarding refunds so perhaps you and Pierre should keep those threads open?

Go back and read the OP.

My posts are right on the mark and appropriate for the thread.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-20-2013

@kerstingunnel wrote:
Since 2009 I have been and am a VERY happy eBay buyer. The recent surge of US based eBay sellers partnering with GSP, however, has me scratch my head. From what I can tell, it postures to solve a completely non-existing problem while creating a very tangible and substantial one.
   In the years I have been buying on eBay, a shipment to me from the US has NEVER ONCE been halted at the Canadian Border Agency to accrue charges of broker's fees, sales taxes and import charges. I have NOT PAID A CENT EVER in such charges for shipments originating from US based eBay sellers. Shipments can be halted, but in my own experience, they rarely, if ever, are.
   For each and every purchase from a seller who is partnering with GSP, however, such charges are paid (probably in addition to monies paid to eBay and GSP for their hand in the arrangement) and paid substantially. In a typical eBay transaction an item won at $26 cost $11.50 to ship and $9.51 (!!!) in GSP import charges.
   Postal rates have gone up steeply for international shipping recently, adding to the sudden increase in the cost of shipping to Canada..
   EBay may not be able to influence US postal costs, but the GSP partnership with eBay vendors is definitely an area of eBay's direct control and prerogative.
   I will not buy from an eBay business who partners with GSP.
   This year we Canadians number 35 million people and I'm sure that there are many of them who LOVE eBay as much as I do. Since this is a substantial market, I think it would be exceedingly foolish and myopic of eBay to jeopardize it altogether by taking GSP on board. Several eBay sellers I have contacted say that if the partnership becomes mandatory, they will cease to offer their listings to Canadians. Some have tried to work with GSP and find immediately that it doesn't serve them or their Canadian customers well - they have subsequently backed out of the partnership. Many have figured out beforehand and on their own that it wouldn't be in their interest or that of their Canadian customers and they have not opted for bringing GSP on board. All sellers say that they are encouraged by eBay to partner with GSP.
   Every seller I have discussed this issue with was under the impression that this a valuable service devised to streamline the buying process and solve existing problems for their Canadian customers. This is, then, patently untrue. If this is how eBay, against their better knowing, "sells" the GSP program to their vendors, eBay actively misleads them. If eBay is unaware of the real state of affairs in regards to import charges, it ought to look into the factual situation more diligently before making such a serious move. It appears to be a predatory and parasitic practise.
   It seems, thus, that the arrangement benefits GSP, eBay and the coffers of Canada. It doesn't benefit eBay vendors or their Canadian customers. In the end, since we all coexist and are interdependent, if it chokes or severely affects the Canadian market, only GSP and the government of Canada come out the winners, not eBay, not eBay sellers, not Canadian eBay buyers.
   Other US based on-line businesses are partnered with similar programs for shipping to Canadian customers, which is one of the reasons I always prefer to buy on eBay.
   Why fix what works perfectly well without fixing?

To take you back................... and reign it in then............

This post has received 15 Kudos. Perhaps more than any other. It's excellent and it's the topic of this thread.

i couldn't agree more and everything I've posted has simply agreed and elaborated upon the comments made in the OP.

Pierre may not agree, and bb you like that fence a lot. ............... but i do agree.