Canadians who don't understand the cost of shipping in Canada

[shari_nat]

I know the last person who rated my stars dinged me on the shipping price. He's a fellow Canadian. I charged him exact shipping, plus 5 cents.

grrrr...

I had really hoped Canadians knew the price of shipping within their own country. Guess not.

Shari

[pierrelebel]

"I know the last person who rated my stars dinged me on the shipping price"

How could you possibly know that? .

[pierrelebel]

Sellers need to keep in mind a change in their DSR is NOT necessarily the result of some feedback recently posted but may be some number dropping off after 30 days.

Since we only see a rounded number, it is quite possible, for example, a rating of 4.7502 (shown as 4.8) would become 4.7486 (shown as 4.7) is a 30 day old DSR is removed.

Odds are 50/50 the change is caused by an old number dropping off.

Not wise to jump to conclusion because the DSR just changed. .

[shari_nat]

I had checked several times today trying to see if the number would change without any new feedback. I hadn't received any new feedback since yesterday. This last feedback came in around 5 or 6 and when I checked at 6:30 my stars were lower in shipping price. I just assumed that it was from the last guy since my star score hadn't budged since the day before when I had my last feedback.

Maybe I jumped to conclusions, but it sure feels like it came from the last guy.

Shari

[pstacey]

Shari
Your right, Canadians don't understand that shipping within the country costs more then sending to the USA and sometimes overseas.
I had one buyer email me quite upset, was going to leave me a neg etc etc for raising my shipping (it was never in the listing, I had Canadians email for shipping costs). I emailed them the measurements of the box and the weight and had them look it up on the canada post website, they shut up fast. Granted still waiting for an apology. Think I will be waiting a long long time LOL Granted I haven't left them feedback either...couldn't quite figure out what to leave..i just know they weren't getting a positive!

[recped]

Did you use "stealth" postage by any chance?

And by the way perhaps the buyer was indicating that your shipping was high not that your shipping was high because you inflated it.

Broccoli is expensive in Toronto this week, I don't think it's because the store is making extra profit but I'd still say the price of broccoli is high.

[dipmicro]

Perception, perception ... if you clearly visibly state the shipping charge in the auction, they have no reason to complain. If you hide it, some of them will be upset even if you subsidize the shipping.

One friend told me a story ... an immigrant got a credit card and after a while they call to the bank and said, their card is not accepted anymore. The bank looked at the account and said that they maxed the credit card and they did not pay anything yet. "We have to pay that money back?" the poor soul asked.

Yup, there is a lot of ignorants among us.

[marcopoloca]

yeap, i have the same experience.

buyer don't understand how expensive to ship, and the extra cost involved (ebay final fees, paypal fees), period.

canada post is a big obstacle for small companies like us with not just high postage cost but their very strict rules.

A case in point, a #10 envelope weight a total of 5 grams would usually cost me $1.65 to ship internationally, but because it is not paper inside i am supposed to pay $3.95 instead!

While seller in the U.S. have no problem sending the same item for 50 cents.

US buyer have import limit of $200, while we have a limit of $20!

Crap 😞

[marcopoloca]

That same #10 envelope shipping oversea is not available as a light packet intl on the canada post website, the next available option is small packet air at $8.00!

I called the post office and they said if it does not fit the slot, it would have to send as small packet; that's right, a 5 grams weight slightly thicker than the slot would cost me $8 to ship oversea 😞

While the fee kept rising, i think it doubled in the last 5 years, the thin thin slot standard they used is at least 15 years old!

[dipmicro]

marcopola, CanadaPost is more expensive than USPS, I give you that - but it's still a good deal comparing to other national post offices.

Sending a commercial parcel across the world for $3.80? That's not bad.

CanadaPost is old crummy corporation and it takes time for them to implement anything. Their web application sucks bad. Some people say the Light Packet was created because the customers wanted it. I have no objection to their pricing, only wish they modernized a little and made some kind of customer printable barcode that would allow the Small and Light parcels to be tracked across the world. Computers are cheap, barcode scanners are cheap, bandwidth is cheap ... 🙂 They would save big bucks on Small Packet claims because in my opinion 4 in 5 are just plain late or falsely claimed. But because of all the bureacracy at old CPC, it's going to take time to get there.

[lina-mallows]

marcopoloca-
I have to ask one BIG QUESTION-
when you write "buyer don't understand how expensive to ship, and the extra cost involved (ebay final fees, paypal fees), period."

WHY SHOULD A BUYER HAVE TO UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS ???

eBay listing fees, end value fees, as well as Paypal fees ARE YOUR CONCERN as a SELLER- NOT the buyers!

FOR EXAMPLE- in the REAL non-eBay WORLD-
When I go into a grocery store- to buy a loaf of bread- the RENT the store pays- how much they pay their staff in wages, and what their business taxes are- ARE NONE OF MY BUSINESS!

I am the CUSTOMER/BUYER- what the LOAF OF BREAD COSTS is my concern- beyond that, everything is the STORE'S concern.

As a SELLER on eBay, we have to worry about so many of these things.
If your opening bid- or BUY IT NOW prices don't cover these eBay/PayPal expenses- then maybe it's time to rethink your pricing strategy.
I appreciate that no one expects an AUCTION item that OPENS at $1.oo to sell for that amount- BUT IT HAPPENS.
As for padding the SHIPPING/HANDLING with all of YOUR SELLER fees- that's precisely what (I THINK) eBay's DSR rating system was designed to prevent!

Maybe I am wrong- but as a buyer, that's the way I see it.
When a SELLER sends an item with a US$1.oo STAMP affixed- in a small bubble pack- and charges between US$4 to $5 (or more!!!) for that service- they get a SINGLE STAR- PERIOD! Bubble Packs don't cost a DOLLAR- and when added to the actual shipping cost (NO GST in the US!) a US$3+ charge to drop (and I do mean at times DROP) an item into the envelope is beyond unreasonable.

[dipmicro]

Lina, some good points you have there, although shipping IS a customer concern. You always see S/H in any online merchant, you might even select 2nd day, economy, etc.

Sometimes you might design a business model where you sell the inventory at cost but make money on S/H. This would be a valid and legal business model, most businesses combine income from shipping and goods, some may have some contingency built-into the shipping.

If the cost of shipping is clearly disclosed before commiting to purchase (as it should be under Consumer Protection Act), then you are making an informed decision to accept the charges and seeing that $1 stamp should niot make a difference because you already considered those charges resonable enough to commit to purchase.

[marcopoloca]

Hey Thanks for all the responses:) i thought the Canadian PS board is dead as hardly any movement here.

5 grams weight in a #10 envelope (9.5 x 4.5 inches) is not exactly a parcel.

Well may be it's time the customer get educated. Canadian consumer often says hey why is our stuff more expensive than what i can buy in the U.S., that is because it cost merchant like us to import them, fees slap on by the government, brokerage house (like UPS), etc.

True there are many big business still ripping off the customer by using exchange rate of 1.5 (eg. sony store), but many products are (slightly) more expensive because of fees that's out of our control and consumers should know about it; otherwise they'd just kept on shopping elsewhere.

Our pricing strategy is to be competitive with other online or store sellers, we can take a much lower margin by absorbing these fee or raise the price and customer will buy elsewhere.

If the customer does not have the right to know, ebay should definitely take notice; a business model build on ever rising fee will eventually slow down sales.

Many businesses here charges an extra 3% for using a credit card, and some charges extra for handling fees (labor and materials) for shipping out. I am simply disclosing to my customer that the fee they are paying include postage and all these extra handling fees charged by 3rd party.

just my 2 cents.

[lina-mallows]

dipmicro-
If the cost of shipping is clearly disclosed before commiting to purchase (as it should be under Consumer Protection Act), then you are making an informed decision to accept the charges and seeing that $1 stamp should niot make a difference because you already considered those charges resonable enough to commit to purchase.


I think I missed the notion here (SORRY!) of something similar to "bait and switch".
The SELLER for US$4.oo to US$5.oo+ commits to some type of packaging, and delivery method- like SMALL PACKET- or PARCEL POST delivery. Over the past years, the biggest problem was charging for PRIORITY (actual cost then US$4 to US$4.60- and sending by AIRMAIL at less than $1.oo postage. (As the SMALL envelope PRIORITY is no longer available to Canada- this problem solved itself.)
Now, the problem is most commonly minimizing the weight of the package- and slipping the item through as AIRMAIL- BUT CHARGING PARCEL RATES!

TODAY- this morning- an ENVELOPE- NOT A BUBBLE PACK- arrived.
With C$1.15 in postage applied.
INSIDE was a greeting card- and my item- in its original box- opened and each of the two parts placed side by side. (to reduce the thickness.)
The SELLER's auction clearly states- SERVICE- CANADA POST REGULAR PARCEL.

So- what do you "dipmicro" believe that I PAID for- and also believe I should have received? This was a piece of jewellery from BIRKS- in its original box. (just to note- BIRKS boxes have a value in themselves)

I expected a most likely BOXED item- as PARCELS have a dimensional requirement.
AND- as PARCEL service includes some amount of insurance (up to C$100- I know jewellery is not technically covered- this piece would be classified under another category)- there is also the psychological state of knowing that there is some measure of security for my piece of 'jewellery' while in transit. A small (4.5" x 6" 11.5cm x 16cm) white envelope- with NO bubble pack- and my item dropped in DOES NOT appear to me to be what I PAID FOR and expected!

Last week I received a BUBBLE PACK form the UK.
The item was send REGISTERED SIGNED FOR delivery.
Great- secure- and insured! Now- the seller literally dropped the item in the envelope- no additional packaging- no PayPal receipt- nothing but the item- loose, bouncing around in the envelope. Here's the BIG point- the item, as a watch fob- has TWO glass crystals- one one each side. ONE ARRIVED CRACKED. The cost of returning the item to the seller by REGISTERED Mail (must be tracked to meet PayPal demands) is around C$15. Do you complain? Maybe. Should the seller have packaged the item better? Most certainly? Did I file a "not as described" complaint- no. Did I take it out by lowering the DSR of the seller- most certainly.
While eBay provides some measure of rating for SPEED of mailing- and COST- ANY rating for PROPER packaging has been overlooked.
We believe that SAFE delivery of a customer's purchase is the BIG concern- not speed !!!

As for shifting fees to SHIPPING AND HANDLING- ABSOLUTELY A VALID MODEL! I agree that upfront shipping costs should be there, whenever possible. AND that these ARE part of the contract. eBay DOES NOT treat SHIPPING AND HANDLING as part of the description! So- ANY complaint about a SELLER not sending an item as 'promised' is not taken seriously.

HOWEVER- at present- I firmly believe that the service DELIVERED should be THE SAME as the service PAID FOR !

Unfortunately as a seller on eBay- we do sell some heavier items (each being 1kg- without additional packaging). Wend shipping ONLY WITHIN CANADA (we do not ship to the US)- shipping varies by weight, and distance- so giving a price upfront is not possible. We state the HIGHEST price in our auction- and charge the actual cost (most often less) at time of purchase. We do not add additional amounts for packaging- or any other fees.

[momoftwingles2]

Hi marcopoloca,

This information is from eBay help info regarding shipping and handling fees:

In addition to the final listing price, sellers are permitted to charge:

Actual Shipping cost: This is the actual cost (i.e. postage) for shipping the item.

Handling Fee: Actual packaging materials costs may be charged. A handling fee in addition to actual shipping cost may be charged if it is not excessive.

Insurance: Sellers offering insurance may only charge the actual fee for insurance. No additional amount may be added, such as “self-insurance”. Sellers who do not use a licensed 3rd party insurance company may not require buyers to purchase insurance. This is a violation of state law.


Shipping and Handling - Sellers may charge a reasonable shipping and handling fee to the final price of their item. A shipping and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item. Shipping and handling fees cannot be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.

Sellers may not charge eBay buyers an additional fee for their use of ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of checks, money orders, electronic transfers or credit cards. Such costs should be built into the price of the item.

Hope this info helps!
Susan
momoftwingles2

[lina-mallows]

momoftwingles2- Thank you for posting this.

HOWEVER- try to complain when a seller clearly posts a Shipping and handling fee that is EXCESSIVE!

eBay will do nothing. Does anyone have any experience to the contrary.

Recently- an item showed up on eBay-
A STERLING SILVER CIGAR CUTTER
Opening- and winning bid $0.99

In the auction's description the seller went so far as to add:
"Several questions have come up about the shipping. It is not a mistake. It is as listed"
The shipping was listed as:
"US $30.00 United States US Postal Service Media MailTM
Estimated delivery 2-9 days*
INSURANCE: None"
THE SELLER LATER ADDED:
"email any questions. Insurance is available at $1.50 per $50"

FIRSTLY- a SLIVER CIGAR CUTTER IS CERTAINLY NOT MEDIA MAIL!

That said- THIRTY DOLLARS (confirmed as correct) for an item that weighs about ONE OUNCE!

I brought this to eBay's attention TWICE- the auction stood for the seven days, and closed accordingly.

Here's the feedback that the buyer left for the seller:
NEUTRAL "the real cost of this was the shipping- not the item"

Absolutely wonderful feedback from the buyer. Too bad eBay can't understand the reality of shifting virtually ALL of the item's true value to the shipping and handling fees.

BY THE WAY- try a search for the following word string:
"We reserve the right to self-insure."
CURRENT count- 2576 items- let's see eBay enforce the NO SELF INSURANCE RULE!

TRY this search for the following word string:
"I may self insure my auctions"
CURRENT count- 250 items

So- while eBay may have rules, and policies- they appear to either have no effect, or are simply not enforced!

[lina-mallows]

SIDE NOTE about some eBay rules not being enforced-
aA POWER SELLER- with the :
Check how you're protected
Up to $2,000 in buyer protection. See eligibility
BANNER clearly showing-
has the following text in their auctions:
"We cannot accept credit card payment except via Paypal."
VIOLATION ONE-
then writes the following:
"We self-insure in most cases, so if there is a problem with breakage, we guarantee reimbursement ourselves."

So- if reported let's see if eBay will do anything about this!

[lina-mallows]

SORRY- has the following text in their auctions:
"We cannot accept credit card payment except via Paypal."
Again- SORRY- This was not the issue- as accepting credits was OK through PayPal-
It was the "SELF INSURANCE" statement that was of concern.

[dipmicro]

The SELLER's auction clearly states- SERVICE- CANADA POST REGULAR PARCEL.

Lina, if the auction mentioned that service, then you are right and I am sorry, it definitely looks very much like bait and switch and you were cheated. Neg the bastard, but not for adding $4 to the cost of shipping but for promising a premium shipping service and using a substandard one.

[marcopoloca]

Oh yeah i got baited and switched many times from US sellers charging me a premium for shipping and see only a $2 postage (eg. a $15 shoe costing $15 or more to ship)

Selling the item for a buck and charging $50 for shipping is clearly fee avoidance and in violations.

But i don't see anything wrong letting buyers know what the shipping and handling fees actually involved. You see how ebay cleverly did not mention their name or paypal as regard to additional cost.