Cancelling a Transaction, possibly?

[cynicalsaint]

Hello,

I just had a buyer win an auction of mine, and then send me a message as such:

"Hey there, I was just wondering if there was any way to offer a cheaper shipping option for this order? The shipping costs more then the items hahah. If so this will reflect better under your score in your feedback for shipping and I would be greatly greatly appreciative. Please let me know if there is a cheaper option. Thanks for your time, ill wait to pay until I get a reply from you. Cheers"

Canada Post is expensive - the cost of the shipping was listed up front and I even said in my auction description that all items go via Canada Post with tracking.

I perceive her comment about 'feedback' as a threat.  I'd rather just cancel this but can I do such a thing?

If I proceed, and she gives me lousy feedback, do I have grounds to report her?

I've already replied asking her why she even bothered bidding if she was going to argue the price after the fact, and that I saw her feedback comment as a threat.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[mr.elmwood · Accepted solution]

Depends what you sold. I do not use tracking as it is expensive and a waste of money. Well, I am forced into it when weight puts it into Expedited.

Depending on weight, that could save some money.

You are getting into a "discussion" with the customer. Do not do that. It generally does not end well.

[cynicalsaint]

I just always do tracking because in my limited selling experience, I've had packages "not show" mysteriously.

I'm thinking I'm going to stop selling to the USA, that's where all of my trouble comes from unfortunately.  Thanks for your help.

[mr.elmwood]

90% of my sales are to the US, 5% world, 5% Canada.

Cut-off sales to the US? I do not think I will.

I have had one (1) small packet, untracked, go missing in the US in the last 2500-3500 sales. Why would I try to force the customer to pay for something that has no benefit to me?

[cynicalsaint]

Well bully for you, chap.  Just because you've had a good experience doesn't mean others have.  I sell far less than you (clearly) and have had two packages go 'missing' without tracking.  Either I have bad luck with the postal service, or have had more than my share of unscrupulous buyers.  Tracking eliminates that possibility quite nicely, and thusly is of benefit to myself and any honest buyer.

Regardless - if I stipulated in the auction the shipping type BEFOREHAND, I think it's unfair to bid, win, and then complain.

But now I'm "getting into a conversation" with a message board member, and I probably shouldn't do that.

[pjcdn2005]

Your reply may have made the situation worse because it sounds confrontational.

Although many of us do not use tracking for the majority of our items because it is expensive and it makes it difficult to compete against U.S. sellers.  In this case the shipping price was already listed so you are under no obligation to change it and your buyer doesn't have a right to ask you do so. If they do leave you a negative which mentions the shipping cost, there is a chance that customer service will remove it because of the previous implied threat.

Is this for the $60 set?  You should be able to see the buyers address so I would check the weight of the package and do a test label at paypal.com/shipnow to see exactly what the cost will be.  Once you get to the second page you will see the cost and you can exit out before you pay for the label.  The cost will probably be less after the paypal discount and after you convert his U.S. $ to Canadian currency. If you can lower it a couple of dollars, the buyer may be happier.

  It's annoying when someone asks for a discount after the sale so I think everyone handles things like this differently. Some won't give in and some will look for a compromise.It's up to you how you handle it.

[pjcdn2005]

Oops I ran out of edit time.

 I wanted to add that if you find you can lower the price slightly you might want to write something like..."I had another look at the cost if I use Paypal shipping I can save you a couple of dollars so your shipping cost will be $x. If that doesn't work for you and you want to cancel the transaction, please let me know and I will do that for you."

If you don't want to or can't lower the cost, you can still offer to cancel the transaction.  But if you cancel it without them wanting you to cancel it, that could cause some problems.

[momcqueen]

You can Report the Buyer. I'm not certain what good it does but you should be able to find a drop-down somewhere on the order details.

Once you click it, you will be taken to a page that says:

Next, tell us what happened:

Buyer made unreasonable demands

• Demanded a change to the shipping method or location
• Demanded a change to the payment method or timing
• Demanded a partial refund or discount
• Demanded additional items or services
• Requested that the transaction be completed off of eBay 

[momcqueen]

For the record, I use tracking wherever possible. I'm less interested in being 'competitive' with our neighbours to the south than I am in fostering a professional business environment. No online retailer (outside of small, individual ebay sellers) sends stuff blindly through the mail. No tracking is a risky business practise. In my opinion.

I can live without the deal-seekers. They are never happy. 

[rose-dee]

I'd be inclined to go even further than 'mjwl' suggested, and report this buyer for feedback extortion, along with the attempt to negotiate the terms of payment after the sale.  I don't have the link handy, but if you enter "feedback extortion" in the "Help & Contact" section, you'll probably find it.  Failing that, call Customer Service. 

It's possible this buyer makes a habit of dickering with sellers after the fact, using a threat of poor FB as a means of getting her way.  EBay doesn't want these kinds of buyers.  BTW, have you checked her own FB (under "Feedback left for others")?  If you see a number of passive-aggressive "positive" FB comments, or more than the usual negatives/neutrals, I'd have no qualms about reporting the buyer before going any further. 

As far as tracking goes, you'll see a lot of differing opinions on these boards.  Personally I take my chances with most items by using Small or Light Packet to the U.S. and lettermail (wherever possible) within Canada.  In over 8 years of selling, I've never had a non-tracked parcel go astray or fail to be delivered.  I think that's fairly good odds.  Eliminating a major market (the U.S.) in order to avoid a very small risk is not, in my view, a good idea.

I do use tracking if the item is of value (usually over about $80-$100), or if the buyer seems a bit problematic (messages with concerns about delivery, etc.), or if I want to be sure from my end there are no hiccups with a transaction.  However, overall I'd say tracking accounts for only about 10%-20% of my shipping. 

This is one buyer you should block after things get sorted out, either by eBay or by caving in to her demands and subsidizing the shipping out of your own pocket.  The trouble with giving in to her extortion is that: (a) you're encouraging such buyers to do this again; (b) you're losing money unnecessarily; and (c) you have no assurance that this buyer still won't find something to complain about in FB, DSRs, etc. even after you've given her everything she wants. 

It's up to you, but I know what I'd do with this nasty customer. I hope this turns out well for you in the end.  

[rose-dee]

Here's the summary regarding FB extortion (from the eBay help pages).  You can review the entire Feedback extortion policy at the link shown, where you'll find a link (about 2/3rds down the page) for reporting feedback extortion from a buyer: 

Here's what we found for "The buyer is threatening me with negative Feedback."

Buyers aren't allowed to threaten to use Feedback or detailed seller ratings to force a seller into:

• Providing goods or services that weren't included in the original item's description or purchase price
• Giving a refund
• Accepting a return
• Other situations are covered in our Feedback extortion policy

[momcqueen]

Rosedee is correct. The problem is with the statement: "If so this will reflect better under your score in your feedback for shipping and I would be greatly greatly appreciative. Please let me know if there is a cheaper option."

(By the way, the moderator may remove the direct quote. We're allowed to paraphrase only.)

You'd be best to call ebay if feedback becomes an option. Reporting via form may lead nowhere. 

[rose-dee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

You'd be best to call ebay if feedback becomes an option. Reporting via form may lead nowhere. 

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I'd actually be inclined to do both in this case.  

Although the reporting screen may just load the information into a database, it may create a permanent and more long-lasting record against this buyer that will eventually catch up to her, especially if other sellers do the same.

Calling Customer Service too is a good idea as it will probably get more immediate resolution for the seller in this particular situation -- it may even relieve him of having to complete the transaction at all. 

I do wish the OP good luck in this -- let us know how it all turns out please! 

[tobyshitzu]

Even the Canadian mint will send coins untracked lettermail.  At some value hey wouldn't, but low value ones `~$30 always come lettermail.  Don't know at what value they start using tracking, I only buy when they sell normal coins at face value 

[momcqueen]

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@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

Even the Canadian mint will send coins untracked lettermail.  At some value hey wouldn't, but low value ones `~$30 always come lettermail.  Don't know at what value they start using tracking, I only buy when they sell normal coins at face value 

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That I did not know but it only stands to reason since they can always mint more if the original orders go missing. Yes, I am being facetious. 

Nowhere that I shop online sends their packages out untraced. As the primary purchaser for both household and business(es), I buy clothes, housewares, office supplies, computer equipment, software, tools, toys etc. As the person releasing the funds to the company from which I am purchasing, I expect to know where the value of my goods lay at all times. They are assets to my home and/or business.

I realize, of course, that very little ever legitimately goes missing via the postal system but that brings me to my next point: I don't enjoy being stolen from. When a buyer claims an untraced non-reciept and subsequently leaves feedback that says, and I paraphrase, 'thanks for the great deal', well, I take that personally. 

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

I buy things online untracked all the time if that means I pay less shipping. I hate going to the post office to pick up things, so I'd rather they leave it by the door or put it in the community mailbox. Never had a lost package since I started shopping online 7 years ago. You know, even with tracked parcels from Amazon, they just leave it by the door anyway. Tracking doesn't really do anything extra for those parcels.

[femmefan1946]

Sometimes it depends on the demographics of the category.

Most people who get into trouble with the law are males between 15 and 30. How much does that overlap your customer base?

That group is also the one with the most car accidents.  Basically reckless, impulsive and very very entitled. *coughgamergatcough*

Also likely to attack when they don't get the answer they want, even when the advice comes from experience.

Even the Canadian mint will send coins untracked lettermail.  At some value hey wouldn't, but low value ones `~$30 always come lettermail.  Don't know at what value they start using tracking, I only buy when they sell normal coins at face value 

The collectors for Canada Mint products is older, buying souvenirs as much as collectibles, buying for 'investment', and probably aware that if they had 'too many' claims that they would no longer be allowed to buy.

EBay sellers don't really have that luxury.

I would suggest two actions.

First, go to your Seller Preferences and put an automatic Block against bidders who have non-payment Strikes. It's not quite the same problem, but I believe there is a fair overlap.

Second, Cookie Jar Insurance. Look it up.

[mr.elmwood]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Sometimes it depends on the demographics of the category.

Most people who get into trouble with the law are males between 15 and 30. How much does that overlap your customer base?

That group is also the one with the most car accidents.  Basically reckless, impulsive and very very entitled. *coughgamergatcough*

Also likely to attack when they don't get the answer they want, even when the advice comes from experience.

Even the Canadian mint will send coins untracked lettermail.  At some value hey wouldn't, but low value ones `~$30 always come lettermail.  Don't know at what value they start using tracking, I only buy when they sell normal coins at face value 

The collectors for Canada Mint products is older, buying souvenirs as much as collectibles, buying for 'investment', and probably aware that if they had 'too many' claims that they would no longer be allowed to buy.

EBay sellers don't really have that luxury.

I would suggest two actions.

First, go to your Seller Preferences and put an automatic Block against bidders who have non-payment Strikes. It's not quite the same problem, but I believe there is a fair overlap.

Second, Cookie Jar Insurance. Look it up.

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Is that where ya take a dollar from each sale, put it in a jar, and "IF" a claim comes up, pull the money from the self-insurance jar? So, like, example, if I put $1000 in and take $200 out every year, am I ahead or behind?

Never mind that I have not spent an extra $6000 on tracking?

So, by lowering my shipping prices by $6 per sale, have I made myself more competitive? Just like customers ask?

[pjcdn2005]

Before USPS first class international had delivery confirmation I received many deliveries that way and the majority of them were from large online businesses. I don't buy as much from the U.S. as I used to but it seems that even when they have delivery confirmation, most of those companies don't mention tracking or give me a tracking number. If they do give me tracking info, I never check it anyway as it doesn't make the parcel arrive any faster.

It amazes me how some buyers are looking for the info the very next day.

[momcqueen]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Before USPS first class international had delivery confirmation I received many deliveries that way and the majority of them were from large online businesses.....

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So did I but the difference there was that I could actually see the seller had mailed something to me even if I could only watch it travel as far as the border. Tracking worked through the USA and stopped once in possession of Customs on our side.

If I was operating on my own in the wild, blue yonder, I might take more chances with untraced packages more often. I don't, however, appreciate the potential insult added to injury of a Not Received claim when as a seller I am out-of-pocket a product and a refund as well as being clapped across the back of the head with a measuring stick that reads 'defect'  as a result of the claim. 

My demographic of 'didn't get this' people are mothers with buyer's remorse. My young dude buyers are all chatty, ecstatic and leave great feedback when feedback is left. The same cannot be said for my moms. 

As an aside, the only people who are rejected as 'too many unpaid items' by my auto-block are all trying to buy Frozen merchandise.

See what I mean?