DAMAGED ITEMS...

[katiusciav]

how many of you guys who use canada post have items that get damaged? i know some of you sell items that can't really get 'damaged', like sunshine, who sells bikini's, but any other of you? i seem to have a rash of them lately, and more and more, i try to pack with more and more padding, but nothing seems to work. i shipped a murano glass to someone, i used the extra fat bubble wrap-3 layers-for those of you who know-that's pretty thick with the fat bubble wrap. surrounded it with thick white styrofoam...and it arrived broken..?? he claims the box was in great condition, but the glass inside was shattered.
i wish i could actually show it on here somehow how well this item was packed, i can't imagine something that can have that much force to penetrate thick solid styrofoam, and all those layers of air bubbles, it just boggles my mind.
i have always tried to keep shipping costs down for my cx's, but it guess its come to the point where i need to double box with styrofoam between the boxes, with extra large boxes.
and i may have to stop selling glass/pottery, which happens to be very profitable. i'm still in the process of switching over from cp, but in the meantime, i have dozens of parcels out there still in their hands.
i can't think of anything more annoying or frustrating, that an item with superior packing materials gets shattered...i'd really like to be a fly on the wall to see what they do with these packages during transit...X-(

[sunshine2426]

Hi Kat, I used to sell antiques on ebay when i first started and used plastic bubble wrap and packed it well like you 🙂 I only had one customer get a damaged package and asked him to return it for a refund to make sure I wasn't getting scammed. Sure enough it was broken.

Ask them to return it to you for a refund or to send a picture to make sure they are telling you the truth.

Good Luck 🙂

[katiusciav]

i always do!
did you ever think after someone gets something, they think they don't like it as much after all, break it, send pics and say they want a refund because it arrived damaged?

[sunshine2426]

LOL, never thought of that!

[tea_past_times]

I believe that there are "sucker" lists of people on Ebay who refund money on breakables. What I mean is that there are unscrupulous buyers who make a career buying things that are breakable and claiming damage. As soon as you refund one of them, they add your user ID to a list of others they have suckered and these peeople trade those lists among themselves. That's why the claims come in bunches. We have a policy of no t refunding money for any reason, and we state that in all our auctions. We have shipped 1500 teacups and saucers in the last couple of years and in all that shipping have only ever had 1 person try to claim damage during shipping. If our policy was to refund for damaged items, as it was my first year of Ebay sales, we would again have an email inbox full of chipped, cracked and smashed deliveries. it's amazing how quickly our breakage problem went away after we started with our no refunds policy. Now we only get legitimate buyers who want our items, and crooks pass us by.
-PHIL

[orbitdrop.ont_01]

did you ever think after someone gets something, they think they don't like it as much after all, break it, send pics and say they want a refund because it arrived damaged?

All the time! This is why I take pictures of the packaged box and destination documents before I ship it. Although there is no way of telling if they are just going to kick the crap out of the item or the box it was sent in, having pictures of the packaged box and product before sent and after received makes filing a claim with my shipping company (non-Canada Post) so much easier. I got burnt on my first damaged item because I didn't have it documented well enough so I make sure I won't get burnt again.

All depends on the items you ship I suppose... glass is a pretty easy target to break but selling a cast iron doorstop would be almost impossible to destroy.

Most shipping companies won't insure glass/porcelain. If you sell a lot of glass I would suggest like tea_past_times to state "no refunds on glass" or something similar. If you sell one Murano chandelier for $2000 and it arrives broken you are the one who loses the money and shipping. Stating glass is shipped at buyer's risk is definitely one to consider. Check your competitors and you will see many of them (especially in the US) will state this.

[treasure-pot]

You will find that Paypal cares little for the insurance exceptions that you may add to your listings. Regardless of your claims to the contrary, it is the shippers responsibility to ensure that all items are received by the buyer in as described condition. Just adding "I won't be responsible" holds little water if the buyer files a claim through Paypal. The buyer will win those claims time and again.

There are certain inherent risks that come with selling some items. If you are not prepared to accept those risks you should think about selling items that are unbreakable.

Bill treasure-pot

[jakeeangel]

Absolutely correct Bill. As a matter of fact, Bill Cobb's Town Hall Address in March addressed this very issue. The question asked was if a seller puts in their listing not responsible for damage if insurance isn't purchased is valid or just simply not repsonsible for lost or damaged items.

The repsonse was that PayPal will hold them accountable as they are responsible to get the item to the buyer and in one piece.

Follow the link below to listen to or to read the Town Hall's. For anyone that has an MP3 player you can download it, save it and listen on your player.

http://pages.ebay.com/townhall/archives.html

I find them to be very informative. Not every single thing and some only irk you the wrong way with their plans for the future but I always learn something new when I listen to them. I strongly encourage others to listen to them as well. You may also want to take note of the date of the next one and you could even participate in it by asking a question on the forum or by calling in. Please note though the toll free number they often does not work from Canada, you have to call long distance on their international number.

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[orbitdrop.ont_01]

The other option would be to ship un-insurables by accepting either:

A. Money order/cheque payment only
B. Paypal minimum deposit with balance payable by money order/cheque only. This way you can limit your loss when Paypal comes to rape your account.

The truth of the matter is we as buyers are helping someone somewhere get what they want and we as buyers get shafted in the end when something goes sour. There is no real protection for the sellers.



PS. A third option I've used is sending breakables by Grayhound bus (this works great for 70 piece china sets). They seem to handle their items with a great(er) amount of care as it is carried off one bus and placed on another... no massive conveyor systems to bounce packages around. Train is sometimes feasible as well as the passenger train industry is in jeopardy and will do just about anything to make money. This is another hands-on delivery method where items are transferred from person to person and not through machine to machine.

[katiusciav]

i agree with every single post. tea-i especially liked yours-i have been very tempted to state this on my listings...just to rule out the nasties. bill-i also agree with you-i used to think in my early ebay days "if you buy it, its your risk, and not my fault that it arrived broken", but now i believe otherwise, in that it IS my responsiblity that they get it in one piece-its not necessarily my fault that cp broke it, but its not the buyers' fault either.
that being said-i have yet to receive these pics of the damaged items...i really really have to wonder about this person, as their VERY FIRST email to me after winning this item was: "if this item arrives broken, i will expect a full refund including shipping"...i found that pretty strange as a very first contact...in any case, there have been others...many others...claiming that their items have arrived broken, and never a follow up in sending their pics. this is over 100.00 worth of glass-you think they would send the pics to get their money back!
bill-i have already started to list glass alot less...if its VERY profitable, i will, but if we're talking a few bucks, its not worth the trouble.

The truth of the matter is we as buyers are helping someone somewhere get what they want and we as buyers get shafted in the end when something goes sour. There is no real protection for the sellers.

totally agree!

thanks for all your advice!!

[jakeeangel]

Option #4 would be to pack it well enough to ensure that it arrives in one piece. Short of a plane crash or a truck running it over, if you know how to pack and do so with extreme care it will arrive safely.

Wrap the heck out of the item with bubble wrap, 2 - 3 inches of space between box and item with bubbles and peanuts in that space and then double box doing the same thing. It won't break if packed properly. I haven't shipped tons of glass but quite a few pieces and only one arrived broken. The one I didn't pack with the 2 - 3 inches of space on all 6 sides.

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[recped]

PS. A third option I've used is sending breakables by Grayhound bus (this works great for 70 piece china sets). They seem to handle their items with a great(er) amount of care as it is carried off one bus and placed on another... no massive conveyor systems to bounce packages around.

Doesn't sound like you've ever been to the Toronto Greyhound terminal, the conveyor belt is short but the distance from the counter to the belt is not and packages often travel by "air" for that portion of the journey!
"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.

[orbitdrop.ont_01]

I strongly recommend all eBay sellers to take a visit to any local shipping sorting plant. They are all basically the same thing... rows and rows of conveyor belts and ramps.

Typically, an item starts off at about 3 feet off the ground. It then travels up a rubber conveyor belt that can be as high as 20 feet off the ground. Once it reaches this plateau, it ends up on a roller belt system like the beer store uses to accept empties. From the top of this plateau, an item will be sorted and end up sliding down this roller system. Depending on the sorting facility, the item can go from 20 feet in the air back down to about 3 feet off the ground. Laws of physics aside, the speed a box can reach when traveling down the roller ramp can reach 30km/h depending on the weight. A one pound box that you send would be safe on this trip down the ramp. The 20lb box I send behind yours would almost certainly crush your box when mine comes down the ramp. This is where most breakage occurs.

Double or even triple boxing glass doesn't always work which is why you're hard-pressed to find any company insuring glass/porcelain/crystal.

I hear talk of 3rd party insurance on such items but have never tried it as I'm sure it's like filing a claim with any other insurance company - long, arduous, and near impossible to get your money back.



When I visited the Purolator sorting facility, they told me the 5-foot rule... If you can hold a box up 6 feet in the air and drop it on the ground without breaking anything you have packed your box well... I can't imagine doing that with glass or electronics but that is their rule of thumb.

[katiusciav]

When I visited the Purolator sorting facility, they told me the 5-foot rule... If you can hold a box up 6 feet in the air and drop it on the ground without breaking anything you have packed your box well... I can't imagine doing that with glass or electronics but that is their rule of thumb.


what do you do when you've tried it and find out you didn't use enough packing after it breaks?:^O
The 20lb box I send behind yours would almost certainly crush your box when mine comes down the ramp. This is where most breakage occurs.

i bet your box broke my glass!!;-)

[katiusciav]

Option #4 would be to pack it well enough to ensure that it arrives in one piece.

as i've stated before, i just can't explain how well i wrap items...just like you've described...but after reading orbit's description of the sortation plant, i have to wonder if anything could withstand that...