Did You Know?

[thebarterersdog]

Did you as the seller know that even if you offer a full refund to a buyer upon returned tracked shipping (which is what eBay states they must do), that the buyer can still escalate things to eBay to make a decision on the matter?

And

Did you know that even though communications clearly show that you did offer a full refund to a buyer, eBay will still state you are at fault because the buyer escalated the claim, even though you did all that you could by offering the refund before the escalation, and did so in the manner as stipulated by eBay policies.

Did you know this will ding your DSR's anyway? 

Even if eBay tells the buyer to do exactly what you told them in your refund email, the case will close in the buyer's favor and go against you, the seller, why? Because the case was escalated. So what idiotic policy is this covered under?

Well, today that is exactly what happened to us.

Do you know what I would have had to do, according to eBay, to get eBay to maybe consider in my favor? Offer to pay the return shipping, even though eBay policy clearly dictates that buyers are responsible for return shipping and that it has to be tracked. And even though you follow eBay's very own policies, it doesn't matter because it's up to the rep you speak to that day.

So fellow sellers, offering a full refund on your listings is just as much of a waste of time as offering no refunds, because the buyer has the power to escalate a claim anytime, any how, and win anyway. And even if you do all that you can to appease an ignorant buyer by offering them the moon, if they are so inclined, they will use the system to get you no matter what you do. Why? Because, and I quote, "it's business."

So thanks for all the advise to offer refunds right away, my fellow sellers, but you may want to stop giving that advise because it's apparently... bogus.

X-(

[pierrelebel]

"Did you know this will ding your DSR's anyway?"

Only if the buyer gives the seller DSR less than 5.  Many buyers just ignore DSRs.

"So thanks for all the advise to offer refunds right away, my fellow sellers, but you may want to stop giving that advise because it's apparently... bogus."

Next week, once things have cooled down, take a few minutes with someone you trust to review the history of every aspect of this transaction from the beginning.

Try to analyse what you could have done differently to achieve a more satisfactory result.  Timing?  Communications?

[thebarterersdog]

Pierre, you have wonderful advice and I have used a lot of it, with thanks. 

[thebarterersdog]

:_|

Well, here I am.... still waiting.... for the package to be returned. It was on the 5th that eBay told the buyer to ship the item back and I've been waiting... I read it was after 10 days, the case can be closed, but every agent I speak to, extends the time... what the heck?

This has me feeling sick to my stomach, this entire case. There was no need for it and we are left hanging in limbo land. I've called and called... nothing. Wait...

Policy is policy, but apparently not written in stone... so why make them then. If buyers refuse to read and follow them... ugggggggh!

[thebarterersdog]

Package made it back. And... three gold items were kept by buyer. I called, now they have case on hold while they investigate buyer further... however, they will refund her????? What?

Now what? If nothing else, this just makes a few other decisions for us regarding eBay.

I'm suppose to appeal their decision... round and round we go... wonderful.

[i*m-still-here]

Yes......... it happened to me too.

I offered a full refund upon return from the first email on .......... no fuss, no muss, no mess.

EBay refunded the buyer as soon as the item entered Canada and about a week before it arrived here.

I was told over and over that this is the way things are done.......... standard procedure.

The buyer trashed my FB and left straight 1's for DSRs and I lost my FVFs which were considerable.

To the buyer it must have looked like I was hedging on the refund because I was waiting for it to arrive.

Not a thing I could do about it............. and the item was damaged when I got it back to boot.

After that experience, if it ever happens again, I might refund as soon as the buyer sends me a tracking number.

[thebarterersdog]

Really frustrating too. I offered the refund right away as told above, yet despite my emails for proof that I did, the buyer escalated to a not as described case... should be something in place to stop them from doing this...

[ggsale27]

eBay is becoming a joke. They set out policies, then ignore them when convenient. eBay just does not realize that sellers are what bring the buyers, and if they keep treating sellers like crap, then the buyers will leave too. ebay states in the rules that when you win an auction, you have entered in to a legal agreement to buy the item, according to the terms in the auction ( that do not violate eBays terms of service, and apparently, almost every thing does ), then fall over backwards to help the buyer circumvent those rules, and in some cases , steal from you.

[thebarterersdog]

I get it that sometimes things are returned. But when I email them to return for full refund. Then they should not be able to escalate things to a claim. This buyer did. Then they're told by eBay to do the exact same thing I told them to... So this should not be a claim. Buyer bought, buyer didn't like, buyer sends back, buyer gets refund if all items are there. Not all items were returned. So buyer DOES NOT get a refund and in fact, should be penalized for stealing. I agree. When we came to eBay, we were so hopeful this would open another avenue for us to make money and manage our family needs better (special needs daughter). Well it started out okay, but slowly what I was reading happening to other sellers, sellers who have been here for a long time, started happening to us. And eBay, did nothing but make things worse. We took six months to ensure we understood their policies, but to what end? Useless, because they keep changing them when it suits their own needs. 

I am very disappointed this has happened to us and others, but for us, it is quite the let down.

[thebarterersdog]

UPDATE:

The buyer has been refunded for all. And, she has kept the three items she stole. Note this buyer, all you sellers out there and block her immediately, she is dishonest and not someone you want to deal with.

I have appealed this case... They said I could originally... but guess what... they said it's a closed case and will DECIDE if they should consider my questions at this point because it is closed... of course it's a closed case, they closed it as I was told they would and then be given the chance to appeal... Does anyone at eBay ever read their own policies????

[kalvin@ebay.com]

UPDATE:

The buyer has been refunded for all. And, she has kept the three items she stole. Note this buyer, all you sellers out there and block her immediately, she is dishonest and not someone you want to deal with.

I have appealed this case... They said I could originally... but guess what... they said it's a closed case and will DECIDE if they should consider my questions at this point because it is closed... of course it's a closed case, they closed it as I was told they would and then be given the chance to appeal... Does anyone at eBay ever read their own policies????

Hi thebarterersdog,

Quite sad to hear this - I've asked for this to be looked into. Once that concludes, we'll drop you a note to see if anything further can be done.

Trust & honesty are fundamental factors of any community and eBay is no different. If there are situations where members feel they've exhausted the usual avenues to report any of these violations, definitely reach out to one of the Pinks on the Boards. We can't promise that a favourable outcome will always result in this, but we will take a second look just to make sure we haven't missed anything.

Thanks,

[kashka]

Thebartersdog,I am sorry to hear about your situation..I have also been screwed around by ebays policies in the past(refunded,never received item back and this is when I have WON a case)..so my question to Kalvin is:

Why even have policies if they are not enforced?..Seems the seller can do everything to T,that is set out in the "policy", but that means nothing because they are a seller.And a buyer can break "policy" and it's ok.

I know this will probably not be answered and  should be on a Weds board..but I work for a living and cannot take time out to hang out on Ebay during work hours.

[thebarterersdog]

Kalvin... I am very happy to see you here.

I did appeal, using eBay's available routes and was incredibly relieved to see the decision reversed and the money returned to me. This whole ordeal has left us with a bad pain in our sides ;). Surely there can be ways to avoid this from happening in the future. In my appeal, I did stress two very particular places where I think the system failed to do what it was suppose to.

1) the buyer should never have been allowed to escalate this matter to a claim, once I informed the buyer to return all items for a full refund. It was a blatant slap in the face to have eBay tell her the exact same thing and then tell me that I could have done more to resolve this, meaning refund her before the return... or offer to pay for return shipping... neither is eBay's policy. Why would I do this?

2) also, the amount of time given should have been 10 days as per eBay's policies and then the case closed. This particular buyer was allowed far more than 10 days despite my endless telephoning, and in fact, was given almost double that time, thus prolonging the infraction of policy even further.

I know eBay can't just go on what a seller says after all there are dishonest sellers out there too, I imagine, but there was plenty of warning flags along the way for eBay's reps to pay attention to. Throughout all the communications this particular buyer was trouble, or to be fair, unco-operative. If the items were not as described, then why did she keep the most valuable? Then add insult to injury, even after eBay's rep was informed of this fact, he decided to refund her all the money and shipping... What about the policy that all items must be returned for refund... Once again this lack of attention to policy sent us into a tailspin.

I can't help but wonder how many other sellers would have given up long before this point, losing faith in eBay and the policies they seem to insist sellers follow, but don't follow themselves,nor expect buyers to either apparently.

Policies must be adhered to by all involved. If this had been done in the first place, then I wouldn't be here listing my aggravated grief over a frustrated transaction. I've made mistakes and paid for them along the way to learning the ins and outs of eBay; I'm sure many have too but this was mostly based on principle...  In law, you cannot use an ignorance of the law as a plausable defense, it's just not good policy... nor should buyers be allowed to use an ignorance of eBay policy as a defense for using the system improperly, for financial gain...  Anyway,

I am grateful for the reversal in decision and reimbursement and for any time you put into looking into this matter for me and consequently affecting the outcome... Regards,

Janet