FedEx Groudn requires receiver tax number now

[quikelectriks]

Yep, went to FedEx today to frop off a couple things and you need to have the buyer's social insurance number or tax number on the package as of this morning. They also said it will be the same for all Postal companies that send to the States, any trth to this? They wouldn't let me send it saying it would just get sent back when it got to customs..

[shoplineca]

There are going to be serious problems if this does get implemented across the board. As we all know and have been told over and over, you NEVER give out your SIN or SSN.

In fact even when borrowing money at a bank or filling out a c/c application, it is entirely optional as no company can require you to give out that information.

I have NOT heard of the US or Cdn governments imposing this requirement (to have SSN or SIN on packages) however would suggest that by having it, Fedex can clear its goods faster so it may be simply a matter of Fedex taking it to the next level themselves.

Here is an interesting question: If you are sending the package to a business, what SSN or SIN would Fedex expect you to use?

Malcolm

[tpman99]

You should call fedex to reconfirm as Malcolm said SSN or SIN are confidential information which cannot be revealed to just about anyone.

Been sending via canadapost express and so far I have not heard a thing about this.

[mirakbiz_inc]

You see guys, idiot clerks are not only available at CPC. Each company gets their own share of them....

[shoplineca]

WHere do CP clerks go when they get fired from CP?
To work for FEDEX.

Malcolm

[quikelectriks]

Guess I'm heading back out there tomorrow. I called them as well and the guy said they keep getting notices that it's better to have them on to avoid delays but they WON'T be held up by customs, but who the hell is going to give out a sin? I sure wouldn't..
The only reason I trusted the guy was because I made him call FedEx Ground and they agreed with him.

[inmain]

I use FedEx all the time. All the information I have on this subject is directly from FedEx Trade Networks. They do my customs work.

You only need the customers SSN if the shipment is valued at 200.00 or more. It is not required on anything under that limit.

Also, Americans are nowhere near as paranoid about their SSN's as we are. They freely use them all the time.

[shoplineca]

inmain
I have lived in the US for a total of abot 5-years and have done business there for over 20-years and they have the same respect and fear of using their SSN as we do our SIN as advised by their governments. The same laws pertain to optional use for credit inquiries.

Here are the general facts behind the SSN and use of it:
"In response to growing concerns over the accumulation of massive amounts of personal information, Congress passed the Privacy Act of 1974. Among other things, this Act makes it unlawful for a governmental agency to deny a right, benefit, or privilege merely because the individual refuses to disclose his SSN.

Section 7 of the Privacy Act further provides that any agency requesting an individual to disclose his SSN must "inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it." At the time of its enactment, Congress recognized the dangers of widespread use of SSNs as universal identifiers. In its report supporting the adoption of this provision, the Senate Committee stated that the widespread use of SSNs as universal identifiers in the public and private sectors is "one of the most serious manifestations of privacy concerns in the Nation." Short of prohibiting the use of the SSN outright, the provision in the Privacy Act attempts to limit the use of the number to only those purposes where there is clear legal authority to collect the SSN. It was hoped that citizens, fully informed where the disclosure was not required by law and facing no loss of opportunity in failing to provide the SSN, would be unlikely to provide an SSN and institutions would not pursue the SSN as a form of identification."

Furthermore, each State of the US institutes their own various further protective legislation to ensure the limited use of SSN due to increasing amounts of Identity Theft.

As an example, here is a new Law coming into effect in Arizona next year:
"A law taking effect in January 2005 in Arizona prohibits the disclosure of the SSN to the general public, the printing of the identifier on government and private-sector identification cards, and establishes technical protection requirements for online transmission of SSNs. The new law also prohibits printing the SSN on materials mailed to residents of Arizona. Exceptions to the new protections are limited­companies that wish to continue to use the SSN must do so continuously, must disclose the use of the SSN annually to consumers, and must afford consumers a right to opt-out of continued employment of the SSN."

So if you were shipping to a customer in Arizona with the customer's SSN on the Bill of Lading, your package would appear to be in violation of the new law.

In fact, many of the US States are tightening their laws governing the collection and use of the SSN where the US Federal Government has failed to do so.

So Fedex is completely out of whack on this one. How would your Fedex rep now advise you to ship to Arizona, as one example, without breaking their new law prohibiting you to have your customer's SSN on the mailed or couriered packaged?

Malcolm

[carly@ebay.com]

******New U.S. Customs Requirements on Shipment of Goods from Canada******
Date: 03/11/04 Time: 10:24:04 AM EST

Some eBay community members have recently expressed concerns about United States Customs imposing new requirements on shipments of goods from Canada into the United States. Recent discussions with U.S. Customs have confirmed that beginning on November 1, 2004, U.S. Customs will begin more aggressively enforcing existing laws requiring "ultimate recipient identification" information on packages crossing U.S. borders. You can learn full details by reading the official Customs guidance on this new initiative.

With regard to most eBay transactions, purchasers in the United States should only be required to provide their name and address to the seller. For example, U.S. Customs will require only the name and address of the U.S. recipient on all items that are valued at under $200; and most items valued at under $2,000 and imported for personal use. However, if a U.S. purchaser is planning on importing certain textiles or toys valued at over $250; any items that are valued at over $2,000; or any items that they are importing for re-sale, they will probably need to disclose their social security number or business tax ID to U.S. Customs. For issues of privacy, we encourage U.S. purchasers not to give their social security number to the seller, but to instruct the seller to have the customs broker doing the shipment to contact the purchaser directly for that information. All customs brokers are licensed by the government and are obliged by U.S. privacy laws to protect personal information.

This is a general summary of what may be expected when shipping goods from Canada to U.S. purchasers. You can learn more about requirements applicable to specific situations by reviewing the U.S. Customs importation guidelines. Most shipping companies also have detailed explanations on their websites.

Regards,
eBay

[shoplineca]

Carly
Thanks for the input.

What is happening and being seen at Fedex and other local courier or mail depots is the lack of complete information being given to the clerks that work there.

As a consequence, little or even incorrect infrormation is being given, alot of it not making any economic sense. In other words, what some people are informing their clients is so wrong, that implementation would create an almost complete halt to all cross border trade of merchandise sold by independant businesses.

As I pointed out, there are also State laws which may have a direct effect on what you have included on your package (as in the case of Arizona where you are NOT allowed to print the customer's SSN on the B/L or anywhere else on the package).

As a side note, all of these measures are being imposed on the guise that they are increasing border security when in fact Customs and Revenue Services on both sides of the border are taking complete advantage of anti-terrorist legislation to implement tighter controls on goods exceeding personal exemptions in order to collect more tax. Shame on them!

Malcolm

[aa-surplus]

I had this same question on here two weeks ago when UPS demanded a customers SSN from us.

interesting how it is getting tighter and to me now harder to sell to an american customer.

the $200.00 and below information is not correct as if any customs officer asks for this information and he cannot get it they will return the packages trust me had this happen already.

been there done it all allready and now scaling back my sales to Americans. to date have not had any issues selling to any other country yet.

this is just what has happened to me in the last two weeks so thought I would pass on the information.

Cheers,

mark

[shoplineca]

UPS and FEDEX are in this for the money as Brokers. They dont make enough in Canada from their courier business.

I dont think that there is a single person shipping with CP that has (a) had goods returned bcause of this or (b) ben advised about handling or labelling their items destined to the US differently, to include the SSN.

Furthermore, I am not aware of anyone shipping via CP that has had customers in the US charged any duty or taxes for goods valued over $200.

I know that at least 50% of what I ship to the US per year is valued at over $200 US and I have never had that problem.

CP may not be the answer to everything but they sure as heck dont try to shirk their responsibilities they way Fedex and UPS does by returning product to the sender.

Malcolm

[llee2]

Now is this SSN "requirement" only for parcels entering from Canada or any international destination?

[inmain]

So if you were shipping to a customer in Arizona with the customer's SSN on the Bill of Lading, your package would appear to be in violation of the new law.

That would appear to be correct............In 2005..........But even then that information is only entered on the documentation to the broker, nowhere else.

Also, as pointed out in a previous post, none of that is necessary if you provide the broker with contact information for your client.

Each to their own.

Like it or not; if I was to rely on the postal system to make my deliveries I would not be in business today. It's quite simply too unreliable, delivery takes too long and I don't have the time or the inclination to stand in line at the post office. Etc, etc.

[shoplineca]

inmain
So the problem seems to have been with your contact at FedEx Trade Networks who gave you the wrong information regarding the SSN required on all shipments valued over $200 as corrected by Carly of eBay.

I am somewhat confused at what you refer to as CP being late compared to Fedex. It all depends on what service you use and pay for.

Ship regular post and try to compare that to a Fedex 3 day service and it is like comparing apples to oranges.

I ship into the US with either 2-4 business day delivery (Express Post) or an average of 5-9 business day delivery (Expedited Post) both with very competitive rates to Fedex and UPS with my discounts.

For most of last year (2003) CP picked up at my business however due to a change in business at the beginning of this year, I dropped that service in March 2004.

While I can (and sometimes do) take my items to any number of CP terminals to their loading dock, drop off my items and they sign my sheet and away I go, I often take items to CP outlets at convenience or drug stores when I have other things to get. Never had to line up behind more than 1-person.

If you are happy with a service and it works for you great. I would just be concerned at any carrier that refuses to take my shipment or returns my shipment based on their misinterpretation of the law or rules, expecially when it is their area of expertice.

Malcolm

[inmain]

Malcolm

Must just be in my part of the country or my luck. Everything you find lacking with the couriers I find lacking with Canada Post. (And more)

Whenever I use the postal system for a shipment I expect an email inquiring as to when the item might be received. My expectation is MOST often fulfilled.

I would just be concerned at any carrier that refuses to take my shipment or returns my shipment based on their misinterpretation of the law or rules, expecially when it is their area of expertice.

And I am concerned with a carrier that brings parcels back to me because they read FROM as TO. What kind of expertise is that?

Lets just agree to disagree. 🙂

[shoplineca]

inmain
You are probably right about different parts of the country getting different service. I can clearly nderstand that as your goods probably take an extra day or two just getting to one of the 3 remaining border crossings with CP where they will be turned over to USPS.

My problem with Fedex is that they subcontract to so many other independant carriers. My problem with UPS is twofold. First their reps that I dealt with consistently told lies about the competition to boost themselves up and second they wont insure my musical instruments without excessive testing at my expense at their Montreal facilities.

I, like anyone else have my problems with CP. Nothing is a bed of roses with any of the services overall and depending on what deals we have and what we ship, I assume that we have all chosen the best carrier(s) to meet our needs.

Malcolm

[eserafini2]

"With regard to most eBay transactions, purchasers in the United States should only be required to provide their name and address to the seller. For example, U.S. Customs will require only the name and address of the U.S. recipient on all items that are valued at under $200".

The Xpresspost USA and Expedited USA forms all have plenty of space for phone numbers of both parties. CP is now requiring phones numbers in the official postal outlets I go. Don't put it and risk a return... I am told so, I include it.

On other ID when I ship with FEDEX from the UK to the USA (most times) All address, phone number, certificate of authenticity and shipping manifest is complete but I let FEDEX/Customs contact the buyer to get SSN or Tax #. There is enough ID theft going around that I don't want to facilitate it.

Elaine

[shoplineca]

At eBay on the Road in Ottawa last spring, a CP rep said that Customs would like phone numbers on items being mailed into the US but it was not a requirement.

I have NOT included phone numbers and have never been asked and I ship through franchised postal outlets and central corporate Postal outlets. Further all my items continue to arrive at my customers' homes within the posted CP schedules for the type of service that I choose.

It is not a requirement but a recommendation made by some people at CP from what they have learned from their dealings with Customs people. From those discussions, it was NEVER suggested that the items would ever be returned to the sender should phone numbers not be included. What was said is that items without phone numbers could be delayed whereas those with phone numbers MAY clear faster.

Once again, its is a matter of Postal Clerks getting some information through the grapevine and interpretting it incorrectly and then passing it along to the public as fact. That is nothing more than irresponsibility by CP employees.

Malcolm

[althetrainer]

I don't believe this is new. I have been shipping FedEx ground for two years and EACH time an item over $200 US FedEx ALWAYS charges a brokerage fee, tax (depends on origin of item), and asks for buyer's Fed ID or SSN.

I don't blame my customers for feeling paranoid having to give out such information. So if they don't want to give it to me, FedEx Trade Network can call them directly to obtain the information. There is a fee involved, of course.

I have had a few packages stuck at the border because the tax ID or SSN was not obtained. It is truly a PITA so I have been shipping Canada Post a lot lately.

If a customer insists on shipping FedEx then (s)he will have deal with the tax ID or SSN situation. I give them a choice and if they have no problems providing such information I have no problems shipping FedEx.

Don't we all wish things were a bit simpler?