Fellow eBayers, need your help with counterfeit

[deadeyesly]

First off, I know eBay is a bit of a shark pit full of counterfeiters and fraudsters, which is why I use disposable credit cards and don't spend more than I'm willing to walk away from....but this one stuck in my craw.

Here's the listing:

This seller is even including the legit manufacturer's logos in their ads and blatantly stating that the product is indeed made by that manufacturer (Samsung), though not in the header. Once you see the unit in person, it is very obviously not of their manufacture and they have confirmed it's not theirs from emailed photos, so that part isn't in question.

I tried dealing with the seller who was just stalling and trying to buy positive feedback by promising a refund. To short-circuit that, I gave them 24 hours to deposit a refund and I would leave neutral feedback. If not, it would be negative and I would escalate it through the Dispute Resolution process, which is where we are today. I have started and I expect to hear nothing further from them until I make it a claim in six more days.

At the very least, this is both copyright (owner's manual) and trademark (logo) infringement in violation of section 9.1(c),(d) and (f) of the eBay User Agreement, so I don't think the grounds of my claim are in any doubt.

Yes, I did note their low overall feedback given the time since their first sale.

From what I've read, it sounds like eBay users are pretty much on their own as far as support goes.

What have your experiences been ?

It seems to me that it's up to us to police it as much as we can....or does eBay take it seriously but just can't keep up with it ?

Are they more concerned with making money themselves than their reputation or delivering a positive experience ?

Truth be told, I'm not going to miss my $17 bucks one way or the other but I can't help feeling that we have to stand up to this when we spot it (as I say holding up my sword of truth and justice on a mountain top, lol).

It bugs me whenever people take the easy way out and take advantage of others....and those seeing it are complacent.

It appears that they have pulled all all their listings since this started - I'm guessing they're going to just let that profile die and start another. I've also noticed the same item listed with substantially similar text from sellers with high feedback scores, so maybe it's all a **bleep**shoot.

Thoughts, opinions, similar experiences ?

[femmefan1946 · Accepted solution]

You may have cut your own throat with that negative feedback threat, but....

There is a process.

First you contact the seller. If you don't get a prompt satisfactory response (and an immediate refund would be satisfactory) then you go to Step Two.

Which is go to Customer Support up there in the top right and click on Resolution Centre in the drop down.

File for Item Not As Described.

You will be required to return the item to the seller with Delivery Confirmation.

Once PP can see that the item is returned, they will refund you and go after the seller.

The seller will have a black mark on his selling account. These affect his abilty to list and to sell. Enough of them and be will no longer be a member.

"Yes, I did note their low overall feedback given the time since their first sale."

Feedback is how members tell each other about their experiences. EBay also watches feedback and the much more important Detailed Seller Ratings and do take action.

"It appears that they have pulled all all their listings since this started -"

More likely eBay has booted them off the site for scamming and selling counterfeits.

This is good, It makes it more likely that you can win a Dispute without the expensive return. In the text box of the Dispute use both the word "counterfeit' and "Not A Registered \User." These make PP sit up and take notice.

And in future, if it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't true. And on eBay any FB under 98% is poor as are Detailed Seller Ratings under 4.5.

[deadeyesly]

I just got notification of your reply, otherwise  would have replied sooner.

First off, thanks for taking the time. I'm going through the process you mentioned right now. With no further feedback from the seller, I have since escalated it to a claim.

"You may have cut your own throat with that negative feedback threat, but...."

Yeah, hindsight and all that....but, in my defense, that was the only card I really had to play before making a claim. To my mind, once you've initiated a claim, there is no way you can honestly leave positive feedback regardless of how the claim is settled, especially in this case where positive feedback would only allow them to continue their fraud.

That said, it was pretty much from the time I left that feedback that they stopped communicating altogether so I'll keep that card in the deck longer next time.

Their feedback gave me a bit of the heebie-jeebies, but it was about 38 positive and 1 negative and the negative comment was ambiguous. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, so figured it could simply be a new seller.

My own eBay use has been infrequent and my business IRL is entirely reputation-dependent, so even if this doesn't fall in my favour I can chalk it up to a lesson learned and stick with more established sellers.

That would be good news if their listings had been pulled, as it suggests that eBay is more proactive than I expected them to be with the people who pay the fees. I would almost expect them to be a bit complacent, which is why I cited their own User Agreement to show just how egregious this was.

"...if it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't true."

Yeah, that was the kicker here - given that you can buy them new on Amazon etc for $30-40 and, having been in the business and knowing the margins, $17 for a refurb is conceivable.

Interesting to is that, in all four pictures, the major physical differences that identify it as bogus are hidden. To me, that only further suggests that this was blatant and deliberate right from the beginning. 

As far as returning the item goes, does that also generally hold true if the item cost less than the shipping (assuming the item itself is legit and not a counterfeit) ?

I offered to return it already (at their expense) as part of the refund, and they said it wasn't worth the shipping.

Surely that must be applicable both ways through the resolution process ?

PS, thanks also to mod lizzier-ca for tweaking my post to keep it within the TOU instead of just pulling it altogether.

[deadeyesly]

Just to close out the thread:

When I posted the previous, I had just escalated to a claim after the seller failed to respond to communications. I had submitted a pretty detailed account and even had an email from Samsung saying the product was indeed counterfeit.

The seller didn't respond within 10 days after PayPal contacted them about the claim, so PayPal ruled in my favor and returned the funds back into my account.

To all the new, low score sellers out there: I know how tough it must be while you're building your reputation but, for the most part at least, I'll be avoiding you from now on.

[reallynicestamps]

As far as returning the item goes, does that also generally hold true if the item cost less than the shipping

Yep.

First, remember that shipping cost is based on weight, dimensions and service chosen, not the value of the item.

The reasoning for demanding the return , to the extent that I can imagine it, is that neither party should have both the money and the item.

In addition, there are scammers on the Buy side of transactions too. Sellers regularly, though not often, get demands for refunds without return and partial refunds because the item is supposedly not as described. Communication usually winnows out which are legitimately unhappy customers, but it is a truism that the scammer want both the money and the item.

The demand for Proof of return Delivery stops most of those sketchey claims.

Some sellers will accept photos instead of return especially in damage claims.

Feedback is egoboo. Most buyers never look at anything but theFB percentage, so the written comments are irrelevant. And sellers can only see their customers' FB if they are running auctions. 

Much more important are the Detailed Seller Ratings. A normal transaction should get a Five Star rating. The lowest rating is ONE Star. When a seller drops below 4.3, eBay severely restricts his ability to list and to sell.

Good to know you got your money back. In addition, the losing claim is now on the seller's record.

[maggiebvintage2010]

And sellers can only see their customers'FB if they are running auctions.

reallynicestamps:  I don't understand this comment - what do you mean?