eBay

aramatic · ‎11-01-2015

I'm looking at a small item from the US (less than 6 oz.) for $19. Shipping through the dreaded GSP is $13.94 + $4.86 for Import Charges = US$18.80. The same item sent as a USPS First Class International Package would cost $9.45. So exactly double the postage. Plus double the shipping time, as the item is sent first to Kentucky and then reposted from there.

And who gets the import charges? I've been on eBay for 8 years and have bought hundreds of items from the US in the $1-200 range and NOT ONCE have I been charged custom fees on arrival. Someone, presumably Pitney Bowes, is cleaning up on these so-called import changes. It's money out of the buyer's pocket, increasing the cost of an item, that doesn't go to the seller, which is pretty poor business.

Perhaps the US is such a large market that no one cares if foreigners suffer through Global Shipping. However, my experience is that items that I would otherwise have bought go unsold, so I don't think it's necessarily the case that American sellers are always going to find American buyers.

GSP seems to be nothing but a scam that hurts both buyers and sellers.

marnotom! · ‎11-01-2015

It's not a "scam". The GSP is just a different way of transporting merchandise, and since we're pretty wedded to our postal system--particularly items sent as oversize letters (First Class International) rather than parcels, it's going to seem a bit whack. And it can be, if it's used inappropriately by sellers who aren't even aware that they're enrolled in the program, as is sometimes (if not often) the case.

In the early days of eBay, what we now know as the Canada Border Services Agency was pretty diligent about assessing taxes (and duty) due on items imported by mail. I'd say that in the late 1990s, about half of the items purchased on eBay by me or my wife that were subject to tax (i.e. with a declared value of over C$20) were charged tax, and Canada Post charged a handling fee on top of that to collect those taxes.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/duty-droits-eng.html

We once even had an item have its declared value reassessed and we were charged taxes based on that higher reassessed value!

About the time you started using eBay, the frequency with which my wife and I saw our purchases assessed took a dramatic decline, probably due to a combination of short-staffing and a cost-benefit analysis that concluded that it often costs more to collect those taxes than the revenue generated. It's been a few years now (maybe six?) since we've had to pay taxes on an item we've imported by mail.

If you check the buyer terms and conditions page that's linked to a listing page with a GSP listing, you'll see that there's a breakdown of the import charges. The bulk of the charges go to taxes, with the rest being a handling charge levied by PitneyBowes as well as a small kickback to eBay.

Something to keep in mind with the shipping charges is that if the seller doesn't provide the GSP "bot" with information on the item's size and dimensions, you're likely going to be charged more in shipping than if the seller provided this info in the listing. As well, the GSP's shipping charges are actually two charges: the seller's charge for shipping the item to the Global Shipping Center in Kentucky plus PitneyBowes charge for shipping the item from Kentucky to its final destination.

I doubt many sellers are suffering from their use of the GSP because I doubt most sellers using it are aware that they're enrolled in the program; they think they're just set up for shipping within the United States. I also believe that those sellers will likely remain unaware that they're using the program if they're selling items that are better off shipped as oversized letters, because non-US buyers will give those listings a wide berth.

It's certainly not a perfect program, but it can work reasonably well if the stars are aligned and the item is appropriate. I've purchased a couple of cell phones that were forwarded through the GSP and the shipping charges were sensible, and I only had to pay GST (no PST due to a quirk in how BC taxes freight) and a small handling fee (certainly less than what I would have paid Canada Post).

The items also reached me faster than the cases that I purchased at the same time from non-GSP sellers. As with anything, you have to decide when a particular international shipping method makes sense to you, because you can't count on your seller having done due diligence to determine that. If the seller of your small-ish item had chosen parcel post to send your item, you'd likely be looking at a shipping charge of over US$30, for instance.

femmefan1946 · ‎11-01-2015

Your $19USD item cost you $23.75CDN.

Any item over $20CDN must be assessed for duty and SALES TAX*. The delivery company is allowed to levy a service fee** for this.

While CBSA have informally decided to let most imports under ~$100 pass without assessment, possibly on the basis that it makes no sense to collect duty and Sales Tax that is less than the cost of the assessment process, private companies cannot legally do this.

I believe the CBSA reports to the Treasury Board and Canada Post to the Minister of Transport.

Perhaps a polite letter to those Ministers (once appointed) would encourage the new government to raise the limit to the same $200CDN (~$150USD) enjoyed by cross-border shoppers.

*It's usually mostly sales tax since so much imported from the USA actually is covered by NAFTA.

** PB charges ~$5USD for this.

dmil8030 · ‎11-01-2015

Hello 'aramatic',

<<... GSP is $13.94 + $4.86 ... = US$18.80. ... USPS First Class... $9.45. So exactly double the postage.>>

Haha, I can top that. ...

I am looking at a small item from the UK costing £.99 with the GSP coming to £19.02.

And another one for £1.99 with a GSP cost of £16.73.

Other sellers use plain old Royal Mail and ship overseas for between £3 and £5 for these items. So I am waiting until

there is about 4 days left on the listing to ask the sellers if they will take it out of the GSP and relist it with a regular mail

fee so I can buy it. After nearly a month without a sale a seller may be quite happy to sell it to someone willing to buy.

These are both items that will fit in a padded envelope.

Have you tried that with your seller? If you are kind and polite in your requests you will get very few refusals.

Sellers want to sell, ebay wants to make money from sales, and buyers want affordable items.

<< I've ... bought hundreds of items from the US in the $1-200 range and NOT ONCE have I been charged custom fees

on arrival.>>

Hmph. Lucky. I get charged on occasion but I don't mind -- it's the cost of being Canadian. We have pretty good

standards of education and health care, so that's what I'm thinking of when paying my import charges. And as for the

10-buck fee that Canada Post charges for processing the paperwork, - well, jobs for Canadians, eh?

<<GSP seems to be nothing but a scam that hurts both buyers and sellers.>>

Perhaps not a scam exactly, but a cash grab, certainly. It is definitely not good for international buyers and after all this time

nothing has been done to fix any of the problems with it.

I don't think sellers who choose to use it are being 'hurt' by it, not really, and a few actually like it. They like being able to

simply send their items to Kentucky and then give it no more thought. That's okay, - they're welcome to the program, . . . and

to their items. I am finding that reasonably priced items listed with GSP are the last to go, if they go at all. Worldwide, people

balk at the costs associated with GSP items.

So if you see something you would like to buy, gently ask the seller if she would take the item out of the GSP and send it

plain old First Class mail, which comes with tracking - sellers always like that part. You can even send her this link:

http://ircalc.usps.com/?country=10054

It is easy to sort out First Class shipping, once she enters the package dimensions and then finds the First Class options

hidden at the bottom of the second page. (USPS really likes people to buy the pricier Priority).

And if your seller says 'no', then thank her kindly for getting back to you about it and taking the time to respond. Who knows,

if she gets enough of these requests she might decide to change her listings after all.

Otherwise there are lots of sellers who have chosen to opt out of the GSP program and these are the ones who want to

sell internationally and are willing to put in a little bit of effort to do it. Even if the item is big, heavy, expensive and has to

come Priority, it is worth spending a little more money to deal directly with a competent seller.

That's just my opinion.

aramatic · ‎11-02-2015

So who gets the "import charges"?

aramatic · ‎11-02-2015

"We have pretty good standards of education and health care, so that's what I'm thinking of when paying my import charges." Who says the so-called "import charges" come to Canada? I've spoken to eBay reps and they don't know, or won't say, where the money goes.

aramatic · ‎11-02-2015

I can't quite square your comments with the fact you have only 2 eBay transactions.

dmil8030 · ‎11-02-2015

<<Who says the so-called "import charges" come to Canada?>>

What exactly are you implying?

<<I've spoken to eBay reps and they don't know, or won't say, where the money goes.>>

Now which "eBay reps" would those be?

And in case you hadn't considered this, -- many people use what is known as a "posting ID" for the boards

to keep their buying/selling IDs private.

The number ought not to matter. What one should be paying attention to is what is being said, and whether or not it is

a well-reasoned position (even when we disagree), not who or 'how big a number' says it.

afantiques · ‎11-02-2015

So who gets the "import charges"?

The Canadian government. When the pallet or container of goods enters the country, the amount of the import charges due to tax are paid over to the customs folk, About $5 goes to PB on every iterm for their border clearence services. If no tax is due this amount is rolled into the shipping fee.

There is nothing new or special about this. Minus the computers, this is how import taxes have been collected for hundreds of years.

The exporter prepares a customs manifest which aggregates possibly several hundred items, including a combined figure for tax due, and this is paid on arrival.

Because someone other than the tax collectors has done the assessment, and because only one computerised transaction is needed for a large number of items, it is cost effective to collect every penny owed.

Who says the so-called "import charges" come to Canada? I've spoken to eBay reps and they don't know, or won't say, where the money goes.

Why would ebay reps know beans about international trade practices? The proper people to ask are in the import export business. PB would lose most of thier international logistics business worth hundreds of millions of dollars per year if they did not follow the rules. Even for a rake off of millions of dollars it is not worth it.

I can't quite square your comments with the fact you have only 2 eBay transactions.

Many posters use a special posting ID to insulate their business or personal trading from their discussion board activity. I don't bother with this because I am retired, but I assure you marno is a very experienced ebay user. On the boards low FB means nothing.

pierrelebel · ‎11-02-2015

"So who gets the "import charges"?"

Simple question, simple factual answer: For imports into Canada, Pitney Bowes received the "import charges" paid through PayPal. It uses that money to pay taxes (GST/HST/PST) and duty (if applicable) to the Canadian government on the item(s) imported and keeps a handling fee of $4/$5.

I should add - for those needing clarifications - that none of that money goes to the seller or eBay.

marnotom! · ‎11-03-2015

I'd use my "regular" ID if I could, but thanks to a glitch back in the days when LiveWorld administered the eBay discussion boards, it doesn't work for posting here.

arlene_v · ‎11-04-2015

@marnotom! wrote:
I'd use my "regular" ID if I could, but thanks to a glitch back in the days when LiveWorld administered the eBay discussion boards, it doesn't work for posting here.

A work around would be to simply post your regular user ID here in a signature line.

Regular posters understand the concept of postings IDs (one of the most logical and articulate posters on this board uses one) and I thought that you were using a posting ID as well, but from what you say above, the reason you're not using your regular ID is simply because of a glitch from way back.

sylviebee · ‎11-04-2015

@arlene_v wrote:

@marnotom! wrote:
I'd use my "regular" ID if I could, but thanks to a glitch back in the days when LiveWorld administered the eBay discussion boards, it doesn't work for posting here.

A work around would be to simply post your regular user ID here in a signature line.

Regular posters understand the concept of postings IDs (one of the most logical and articulate posters on this board uses one) and I thought that you were using a posting ID as well, but from what you say above, the reason you're not using your regular ID is simply because of a glitch from way back.

marnotom!, are you Canadian? Do you live in Canada?

I've always wondered because the way you approach GSP issues indicates that you don't understand what the experience if like for the rest of us.

arlene_v · ‎11-04-2015

Pitney Bowes uses a model that was designed for large and small retailers who would actively seek out and learn about the program ... who would know exactly what they were doing.

Because online retail is competitive, you can bet that the data input would be absolutely 100% accurate and ditto the charges passed on to customers. The word reasonable comes to mind.

Unlike this fiasco on eBay where a great many sellers are unaware that they are enrolled in the program or are downright hostile about selling internationally and so don't care one jot whether the customer pays through the nose or not ....

This is why we see postcards costing a ridiculous price to ship and so forth.

eBay doesn't care, this much is obvious, or they are doing so well out of this unholy alliance that they choose to turn a blind eye.

PB I am sure cares greatly when "adjustments" are made to shipping costs the moment the 15 gram item arrives in Kentucky (the one that cost the buyer $15 in mail costs). It results in very nice profits indeed.

Scam.

Mmmmmm.

Harsh word. And we don't want to get sued.

Maybe it didn't start out that way but after 3 or more years and no effort to educate sellers or create mandatory fields (dimensions, weight) it certainly smells a tad skanky.

marnotom! · ‎11-04-2015

@arlene_v wrote:

A work around would be to simply post your regular user ID here in a signature line.

Regular posters understand the concept of postings IDs (one of the most logical and articulate posters on this board uses one) and I thought that you were using a posting ID as well, but from what you say above, the reason you're not using your regular ID is simply because of a glitch from way back.

To be blunt, I've never really thought the matter to be all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Most of my selling experience on eBay has been as an assistant to my wife, who has a feedback rating many times that of my regular ID. She also buys a lot more on eBay as she's a sci-fi geek and tends to gravitate towards niche/special interest purchases whereas my purchases tend to be a mix of "practical" items and pop culture media items.

Aside from that, my regular ID wouldn't show the fifteen-odd years of experience I've had in brick and mortar retail during which I worked for a major regional retailer and helmed a department that was tops in sales in its category for the chain. It wouldn't reflect the loyal customer base I helped develop. It wouldn't reflect the fact that the Globe and Mail once interviewed me for my thoughts on that product category, or that I sat on an industry-based committee.

I guess this is a "posting ID" in the sense that I mostly post with it, but I've never really given much thought to why people use them as we don't walk around with signs around our neck with our resumes or personal information on them and I would have thought that most people would regard eBay discussion boards to be not much different.

Besides, my "regular" ID isn't all that tough to figure out, although I suspect some in this crowd would be pretty disappointed and even annoyed to see the feedback page associated with that ID.

marnotom! · ‎11-04-2015

@sylviebee wrote:

marnotom!, are you Canadian? Do you live in Canada?

I've always wondered because the way you approach GSP issues indicates that you don't understand what the experience if like for the rest of us.

I think about five to ten minutes of research and reading past posts should answer your questions and, I hope, put the lie to that puzzling statement at the end of your post.

sylviebee · ‎11-04-2015

@marnotom! wrote:
@sylviebee wrote:

marnotom!, are you Canadian? Do you live in Canada?

I've always wondered because the way you approach GSP issues indicates that you don't understand what the experience if like for the rest of us.

I think about five to ten minutes of research and reading past posts should answer your questions and, I hope, put the lie to that puzzling statement at the end of your post.

I have no interest in rummaging through previous responses to hunt for the answer.

It's not an essay question.

The reason I ask is because you are swimming against the tide for some reason and it's not because you know something the rest of us don't know.

marnotom! · ‎11-04-2015

I don't think that having a nuanced position is swimming against the tide.

There are a lot of GSP listings where the use of the program makes no sense. There are some where it seems to make some sense.

I fail to see where some people have trouble grasping this simply because I'm not foaming at the mouth.

sylviebee · ‎11-04-2015

marnotom!,

There is nothing wrong with being different. However, when one does so only for the sake of being different that's another story.

The same holds true for having a "nuanced" position.

You may not be foaming at the mouth, but no one is as passionate about the GSP as you.

There is also nothing wrong with others taking part in discussions that are important to us.

However, you are unable to grasp the impact the GSP has on Canadian eBay shoppers on a day to day basis.

marnotom! · ‎11-04-2015

It would be nice if you could provide examples of this passionate support and lack of understanding that I supposedly have, but you appear to be adverse to doing research to back up your point of view.

C'est la vie.