"I could go to a big box store and buy tools that were made in Mexico or China and save money, but instead I buy from a small local hardware store and I buy Canadian or American."
I think you are confusing the message here.
"unionized grocery stores and pay substantially more for the same goods"
I was clearly referring to purchasing the same item, not comparing a cheap import to a more expensive, presumably better quality, item made domestically.
You can buy the same made in Canada loaf of bread at a discounter for $2.50 or go to a unionized grocery store (they are still a few around) and pay $3.50
That was the question. Does it make sense? Pay more simply because the store is unionized?
I thought you were just talking about manufacturing in general and you picked groceries as an example, the same as you could buy a tool made by union workers. Nonetheless it still makes sense to me. If you don't buy from the union store then eventually the people will be out of work. Will you go to them face to face and tell them it's their fault?
I thought we were talking about business and imports in business and corporations, but somehow you have focused on unions. Are you suggesting that because Leamington was unionized that this is the reason for it's downfall?
"The cost of everything is going up (too long a list) and people feel they have to buy cheaper to save. "
I think we have a different definition of "cheaper".
Your posts all seem to indicate "cheaper" to you means something made in Mexico or overseas (China).
To me, "cheaper" means purchasing the exact same item but paying a lower price. If I want to purchase a one kilo jar of Kraft peanut butter, I will go to the store offering $2.99, not the store - with nice light fixtures and wide aisles - demanding $5.49 for the same jar. No, I will not buy "no name" peanut butter or any other brand, whether produced domestically or overseas!
On a different subject, many of your posts refer to "corporate greed" and that seems to be important to you. It is a theme coming back, month after month, year after year. Not sure what you or anyone else can do about it. What is "corporate greed"? Who is making too much money? What is a "fair" return on investment considering to risk to capital employed in a business? Is there a better workable system?
When you look at the big picture - and it is important to understand the big picture - how much profit do you think all Canadian businesses (small and large) make in Canada in relation to the Gross Domestic Product?
Would taking some of that profit make a difference to the standards of living of Canadians? Would removing the profit incentive create jobs? or eliminate them? I suspect many readers grossly overestimate how much money is made by big business in relation to the size of the economy.
I had, still have actually, a long reply to your questions and views but I haven't posted it because I don't think it would do much to change your views. I had a majority of it completed and then we had storms in this area and I closed down the computer which left me time to rethink if my responses would do any good. I have been told I am a compassionate person, a person with a conscience and as a Queens Council once told me. a person "who seeks justice". You talk statistics and government trade ratios and other business perspectives which is all fair and good in some respects, but underneath that enormous weight of gibberish, are human beings. I don't mean your statements are gibberish, but those are the things fed to us by governments and big business in order that we play the parlour game of finance that they control. I believe that business can work successfully and profitably without the need to harm others. I believe that business and workers can work hand in hand for long term reachable goals. I also believe that many people in big business have lost their conscience and their mentality is that of a private club and workers are those outside the main gate, below the club members and to be used like a pack of wild dogs to simply clean up the bones thrown to them by their masters. I have known a couple of corporate owners, multi millionaires, who still held onto their consciences and their humanity, but they are far and few between. So you will believe what you believe and I will believe what I believe. I will also continue to fight for that justice, whatever it takes, or needs to be done.
That's just the way I am, people first, money second (for the most part). I could say what "I" see myself as, or I could be unbiased and say what others have said on the outside looking in. That doesn't bother me and it's more honest. I realize that bothers you, but hey, ask me if I care.
Pierre and I have two different perspectives on business and not only do I understand his and it's a fairly common perspective as well, but I view business and people in a whole other way.
"Pierre and I have two different perspectives on business"
That is correct. To simplify:
Prior sees business as greedy making too much money at the expenses of underpaid workers.
I see business as generally getting a fair return on capital invested considering the risks taken and knowing the overall profits generated by business are a small percentage of the overall Gross Domestic Products.
Stats Canada (Oct 2013) confirms my assessment (but Prior does not care about those numbers):
Gross Domestic Product $1,860 trillions
Corporate Operating Profit $72 billions (less than 4%)
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/indi02a-eng.htm
It is too darn easy to call businesses "greedy" because they need to make a profit (return on capital) to maintain their staff level and pay those employees. And when businesses make the regrettable decision to move some of their operations where lower costs exist, I will not always blame the management for making that decision. Prior always will.
Other than that, we generally share a similar political leftist perspective. In most instances, I may be slightly right of the NDP while Prior is left of the NDP.
Prior sees business as greedy making too much money at the expenses of underpaid workers.
I see business as generally getting a fair return on capital invested considering the risks taken and knowing the overall profits generated by business are a small percentage of the overall Gross Domestic Products.
That's too simplified. I do not see 'all' businesses as greedy. I only point out the ones that are. I'm in business myself, 30 years and I understand both profit and equality for staff. Maybe it's just me but I couldn't make in all good conscience say for the sake of discussion 3-4-5 hundred thousand a year and pay staff minimum wage. This is where you and I part in our philosophies. I look at the workers as family, people who without them I wouldn't have a business and an income. To me..........they are the business. Others look at workers as just a commodity, something to use when needed and discard when not. People should not be treated like that.
Stats Canada (Oct 2013) confirms my assessment (but Prior does not care about those numbers):
Gross Domestic Product $1,860 trillions
Corporate Operating Profit $72 billions (less than 4%)
It's not a matter of not caring about those numbers........it's that they do not represent people in general. Our GDP is high mainly because of our natural resources, but what about all the other business and workers? They are not part of the equation. You speak of generalized numbers and stats, I am more interested in the workers and what their lives and futures are.
It is too darn easy to call businesses "greedy" because they need to make a profit (return on capital) to maintain their staff level and pay those employees. And when businesses make the regrettable decision to move some of their operations where lower costs exist, I will not always blame the management for making that decision. Prior always will.
In some cases yes because in the Leamington situation the company is strictly making he decision based on profit.....and they want more because what they are making is not enough and for some companies enough never seems to be enough. When I see a corporate owner or a CEO or share holders say "we will take less to help these people keep their jobs", then that will be when morality has come back to the capitalist mentality.
Other than that, we generally share a similar political leftist perspective. In most instances, I may be slightly right of the NDP while Prior is left of the NDP.
Please don't associate me with any 'party'. You should know by now that I am not a 'party' person and I don't trust any politicians. Neither is there a necessity for 'left' or 'right'. Those are pigeon hole conveniences. I base my views and decisions on the individuality of each situation. One company decision is not the same as another, as one crime is not the same as one that may seem similar to the masses. Most importantly I was brought up to care about people, first and foremost.
I don't think you realize what is happening in N. America and equally associated with the world. Between big business, politicians and the money lenders (banks) they have played a good game of pool and in doing so they have set up every shot well in advance because they have had the 'power' to do so. Create an economy they can benefit from by keeping the workers at a certain level including the need for increased credit which keeps them always beholding to both employers and the banks......destroy the power of unions which gave the average worker a certain power over their own destinies......create an economy where people will work for whatever they can get out of desperation and make this a world wide situation that appeals to both big business and corporate leaders...........then smaller businesses will follow out of example. There is little conscience left and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the middle class is disappearing. You do not see it or feel it because you are retired, probably a good pension or two, investments and added income from other sources such as eBay. There is nothing wrong with that, you worked for it and most likely planned ahead. However for many others they did not have that opportunity or advantages that came their way. Like Leamington and not just the plant workers but the farmers and the equipment dealers and the local restaurant..........they all depended on one main business. The company knew that and no one can tell me this was a sudden decision......they knew what their plans were longgggggg ago. But they didn't care. They pulled the carpet out from underneath all the 700-800 workers and the whole area. There was no attempting to work something out with the workers or the region. There was no moral compass. There as no conscience. All there was .......was pure human greed.
There's not 'bikes', they're motorcycles and frankly I wouldn't buy a new Harley, or one from the past several years since they hired a new designer from Yamaha and they put on brain dead things like a .........gas gauge! That's why my Harleys are all shovelheads and older. They were made to last and made to fix and parts were interchangeable for years.
Yes, the cost of electricity is going up in Ontario.
Want to blame someone?
Start with Mike Harris who forced the divestiture of Ontario Hydro when he was in power. Most of the financial problems facing Ontario today take their origins in his administration.
"In 1998, the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario (PC) government of Mike Harris passed the Energy Competition Act which authorized the establishment of a market in electricity. In April 1999, Ontario Hydro was re-organized into five successor companies: Ontario Power Generation, the Ontario Hydro Services Company (later renamed Hydro One), the Independent Electricity Market Operator (later renamed the Independent Electricity System Operator), the Electrical Safety Authority, and Ontario Electricity Financial Corporation. The two commercial companies, Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One, were intended to eventually operate as private businesses rather than as crown corporations."
