How do I know if the seller is bidding up his item ?

[damiano16]

I am always wondering when there are a bunch of bidders with 0 purchases if they are together with the seller ?

[i*m-still-here]

Buyers with "0" FB don't concern me at all, but it's not uncommon to see and item go Crazy Hi for no apparent reason.

That always makes me wonder.......................

It could be that two crazy bidders start bouncing off each other............... but somehow I'm always suspicious that the seller is playing ball too when I see those irrational numbers.

[surplusdealdude]

That type of behaviour is far less common than people think.

[i*m-still-here]

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@surplusdealdude wrote:

That type of behaviour is far less common than people think.

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A)  How common do people think it is?  

B)  How do you know how common it is?

[lady.stark]

On the contrary, I think that it is much more common than people think. For some reason, those "bidders" never win an item, not even a single one. Of course, that is just my opinion. It's not based on statistics, just personal experience.

One example: I put a minimum bid on an item which had the BIN option. A few hours later, someone outbid me. A few days are passing, and when the seller see I'm not increasing my bid, he contacts me and say something like "You know, if you want the item, I can sell it to you privately for a price that is between your bid and my BIN price.". It happened to me so many times that I stopped counting.

[surplusdealdude]

The bidders are usually new, so thy're unfamilar with the system and they lose the bid often because of that.

ebay has a very effective mathematical algorithm running in the background, checking these bids out.  They've cleaned a lot of the problem-children out that way.

When you suspect shill bidding, look for bids being withdrawn, that's how it works.

If there's no withdrawn bids, the possibility of shiling is almost 0%.

Even if some bids are withdrawn, a shilling bidder will usually withdraw them at the last second.

[pjcdn2005]

ebay has a very effective mathematical algorithm running in the background, checking these bids out.  They've cleaned a lot of the problem-children out that way.

You could be right but I do find it hard to believe that ebay has some sort of algorithm to figure out is shilling.

[karl*katz]

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/sbiddingtutorial/intro.html

If anything eBay's system for detecting shill bidders is too sensetive.

We often hear of people getting sanctioned for shill bidding when they were not shill bidding.

[pjcdn2005]

If anything eBay's system for detecting shill bidders is too sensetive.

We often hear of people getting sanctioned for shill bidding when they were not shill bidding.

Really? I usually agree with your comments but I honestly don't remember any sellers mentioning that ebay sanctioned them for shill bidding or that they were wrongly accused of doing it.

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

call it a filter, call it an algorithm, call it what you like...ebay does have many programs to monitor their sales and they are trying to filter out the shill bidders, scammers and 0 bidders.

Personally, I think most of the 0 bidders/buyers  are either:

a: little kids, or immature adults just bidding for fun. Some people like to annoy other people. It makes them feel good.

b. competitors when it comes ot low qty items. Takes them out of the market or bids them up. As a seller I get a ton of 0 bidders that never pay. If a zero bidder wins, most times I will relist the item right away, especially when their join date is the same or close to the auction date.

c. wanna be scammers, who hope the seller ships the item right away, but it would be very rare, imho, for any seller to ship an unpaid item.

I have seen what I consider shill bidding, especially when the item is listed 3 times with unsuccessful buyers, but again, most zero bidders never pay, and I get a ton of them and I don't shill bid.

Shill bidding is a permanent ban. For any serious seller, its just not worth it. 

[pjcdn2005]

call it a filter, call it an algorithm, call it what you like...ebay does have many programs to monitor their sales and they are trying to filter out the shill bidders, scammers and 0 bidders.

I'm sure that they do have some checks and balances in the system but if their system is that sophisticated then why do they not prevent blocked bidders from getting a new id and bidding on an item from the seller that has them blocked? Why is it that some sellers can be naru'd but then show up again selling on a new id? I'm definitely not an expert on algorithm's etc but it seems odd that they wouldn't control those two things.

As far as filtering out 0 bidders...I know that some are blocked bidders with a new id but there are also many 0 bidders that are genuinely new and are great buyers.

[i*m-still-here]

My personal opinion is that this does happen now and then, but I don't think that sellers are using zero FB ids to bid on their own items.

Every now and then I come across an item with Crazy Stupid bidding going on.

Some of those are legit and involve a couple of knuckle heads going at it………….. but some are also probably due to shill bidding.

When you see an item which should sell for $50 on a good day getting bid up into the hundreds that gets your attention.

However,  there is no fancy schmancy mathematical formula that's gonna pick it up.

Common sense maybe………….. but fat chance proving it.

[dfw2001]

I was outbid on a used TV, and started watch the seller for similar item.  Turns out the seller has relisted the exact same item at least four times.  Seems to be driving up the price from auction to auction, but NEVER seems to actually sell it.  Are we to believe all four buyers decided not to pay?   Really?

[femmefan1946]

Buying a used TV online? Yep. The bidders' wives, all four of them,  took a look and told their husbands, "You are not buying that and having it shipped here. Let's look at the Sears catalogue for one with a warranty and free shipping."

And then the bidder says,"Yes, dear." As he should.

If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman nearby to hear, is he still wrong?-- Red Green

[pjcdn2005]

If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman nearby to hear, is he still wrong?-- Red Green

Of course!

[bb_cool_stuff]

Dem fightin wurds ladies

I would comment but I don't think I've ever been wrong unless you count Puctuation, Spelling,( Listings & Posts) Wrong International Shipping Prices, Thinking That Selling Shirts is a Viable Business, Predicting the Blue Jays winning the Pennant, Predicting the Bombers beating the Riders on Labour Day & thinking that moving back to Winnipeg was a good idea.

Other than those minor deficeniences, I'M PERFECT.

[pierrelebel]

"moving back to Winnipeg was a good idea."

It's OK if you like brown water in your rum!

[bb_cool_stuff]

Haven't experienced that YET Pierre, but i know a few that have.

I think our time is probably coming.

[lady.stark]

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@surplusdealdude wrote:

When you suspect shill bidding, look for bids being withdrawn, that's how it works.

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Maybe back in the day, it was how it worked, but not anymore. The shill bidder will outbid you and hope you will increase your bid. If you don't and they end up winning, they immediately send you a Second Chance Offer and cancel the previous "transaction". That is the new way it works now.

And I doubt eBay bans sellers doing this. I had proof one seller was shill bidding on his items and I reported him many times. I'm not the only one who also knows the thruth, but what did eBay do? Nothing. That seller is still in business and even opened a third account when his second account was discovered. However, all his auctions are now private listings. How convenient! No way to guess the other bidders now.

[dipmicro]

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@surplusdealdude wrote:

ebay has a very effective mathematical algorithm running in the background, checking these bids out.  They've cleaned a lot of the problem-children out that way.

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You are giving Ebay way too much credit. What makes you think back-end team is more competent than ebay webmasters ?

"Effective mathematical algorithm" goes together with names like Google or arguably NASA, but I would not use it in the same sentence with Ebay.