I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are high

10% final shipping fee and 10% selling fee, plus the paypal fee, Ebay is forcing a seller to over charge for shipping to cover the extra shipping fees

Message 1 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

Listing fees weren't asked about, and pretty much irrelevant with the promo frequency no one ever pays them.  Certainly no one at ops size does

 

" The savings on the listing end with a store helps to offset some of the FVF costs, since it really only takes 1 sale per month to recoup the store listing fees."

 

That is the problem with this thread, people are repsonding who don't understand the fees.  To recoup the fees with "1 sale", op would have to sell a $2,000 item!   OP doesnt have any $2000 items, so that isnt possible 

Message 21 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

 

That is the problem with this thread, people are repsonding who don't understand the fees.  To recoup the fees with "1 sale", op would have to sell a $2,000 item!   


Huh??  

 

If I sell a $30 US item on Day 1 of a month, I've paid all of my $15.95 Cdn monthly store fees with about $17.00 Cdn to spare after FVFs.  From then on, for the rest of the month I only pay 9% FVF on item sales, and virtually no shipping FVFs (due to the way I've set up my free shipping).  

 

If I sell a $2,000 item on Day 2, I've paid $180.00 with a store, $200.00 without a store, for a $20.00 difference.  If you're looking at it simply from that perspective, then yes, you've only saved between $0.05 and 4.05 (depending on whether you have a yearly or monthly store).  But you're not seeing the whole picture. 

 

The fact is that I've already covered half (or more) of those FVFs by savings on the listing end.  With a store, as I said, you can easily offset more of the FVFs by savings on listings, and with a lot less trouble and time invested too -- I never have to think about what I'm paying in listing fees, as long as I stay within my allowable limits. 

 

It isn't always possible to rely on promos for everything a seller wants to list, when they want to list it.  Besides, adding promos to a store listing allowance can increase the listing limits on a standard store to around 500.  Not bad for free after Day 1. 

 

I maintain there is far more value to a store than the simple FVF savings calculation anyway -- that is, if the OP is ready to take advantage of those promotional and marketing features.  That marketing value is hard to calculate, but easily worth at least the $15.95/$19.95 per month. 

Message 22 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

After 12 years and 10,300 sales, I do not understand fees? Really. Please, educate me as I am in dire need of seeing the light.

 

 

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Message 23 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

yes, you do not understand fees if you think op saves any fees wih a store.  Its very simple math, if one knows the ebay fee schedule.  We know what you do, as you ignore the op and retell it on every thread regardless of the ops situation  

Message 24 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

Sorry, was that directed at me?  I don't think I ever said you didn't understand fees. 

Message 25 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

yes, you do not understand fees if you think op saves any fees wih a store.  Its very simple math, if one knows the ebay fee schedule.  We know what you do, as you ignore the op and retell it on every thread regardless of the ops situation  


Please re-read my post above.  The math is only simple on one side.  There is more involved than measuring the monthly store fee against the savings in FVFs. 

Message 26 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

 

If I sell a $30 US item on Day 1 of a month, I've paid all of my $15.95 Cdn monthly store fees with about $17.00 Cdn to spare after FVFs.  From then on, for the rest of the month I only pay 9% FVF on item sales, and virtually no shipping FVFs (due to the way I've set up my free shipping).  

 

But you said that you would recoup store fees after just one sale.  On a $30 sale you have saved .30 because you had a store. You still have a long way to go before actually recouping that store fee.  I realize that you think that there are many other benefits to having a store but the OP's problem is that they have items with a relatively low cost with high shipping. I don't see how the store suggestion would help that situation in any way.

 

Also, I think that you have low fvf on shipping because the majority of your items can be shipped lettermail within Canada so it isn't that difficult to offer free shipping but the OP's items cannot be shipped that way so how would you suggest that they cut down on shipping fvf costs?

Message 27 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

 

If I sell a $30 US item on Day 1 of a month, I've paid all of my $15.95 Cdn monthly store fees with about $17.00 Cdn to spare after FVFs.  From then on, for the rest of the month I only pay 9% FVF on item sales, and virtually no shipping FVFs (due to the way I've set up my free shipping).  

 

But you said that you would recoup store fees after just one sale.  On a $30 sale you have saved .30 because you had a store. You still have a long way to go before actually recouping that store fee.  I realize that you think that there are many other benefits to having a store but the OP's problem is that they have items with a relatively low cost with high shipping. I don't see how the store suggestion would help that situation in any way.

 

Also, I think that you have low fvf on shipping because the majority of your items can be shipped lettermail within Canada so it isn't that difficult to offer free shipping but the OP's items cannot be shipped that way so how would you suggest that they cut down on shipping fvf costs?


Yes, to reply to your first comment, I realize I am only saving $0.30 in FVFs over a non-store on a $30 US sale.  

However, my approach is that that first sale pays all my store listing fees for the month (with money to spare).  At that point I have no further listing fees to pay, and ca. $17.00 Cdn to apply toward FVFs for the remainder of the month (well, less any COGS plus other expenses).  

 

It's that remainder of the month of listing fees that makes the significant difference, not the difference between FVFs on store and non-store sales, which is only 1% (except for certain categories like Pierre's, which are lower).  If, like 'toby', one only looks at that narrow calculation from one side, then yes, a fairly large sales turnover is required in order for FVFs to offset the store fee and actually save money in a month.  

 

But I don't look only at that factor when considering the financial value and savings of a store.  Among other things, I look at the other side of the balance sheet, considering the actual amount it would cost me to list the same number of items without a store.  I'm not very familiar anymore with non-store listing fees, but I see a lot of non-store sellers complaining that eBay is restricting them more and more.  

 

For example, as of today (with the new store allotments), I see I now have a monthly potential of 500 free listings (between .ca and .com, plus the auctions).  That's my baseline.  How much would 500 listings costs without a store?  I think that's what the OP needs to be taking a careful look at, not simply the FVFs.  

 

If the OP has the ability to make full use of that potential, then I think not only would he save money to apply toward his FVFs, but he'd also probably increase his sales due to having more listings.  It seems these days that more listings equal more exposure and more sales, since a lot of sellers are now reporting that their turnover is well under 5% per month.  I recall seeing one medium-sized seller say that he now has to list over 2,000 items in order to sell 50 per month.  I don't think that's unusual these days on eBay. 

 

 

I do have quite a number of lower value items with fairly high shipping, but my strategy works for me because of the mix of U.S. vs. Canadian buyers, and depending upon which site I list.  The OP could easily arrange his listings so that he would save significantly on shipping FVFs based on the proportionate location of his buyers (or what he knows will appeal to which buyer subset). Of course this only works for sellers who have some history behind them on which to make an educated calculation on their buyer statistics.  

 

I'd encourage the OP to keep a record of his buyer location stats for a 2 or 3 months, at which point he could strategize his listings to take maximum advantage of FVF reductions based on first domestic shipping rates.  A store would then be well worthwhile if the OP planned to continue on eBay at a higher listing level. 

 

 

Message 28 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

op has no listing cost at all so not an issue

 

Before ebay started messing with the fees something like $12+$12 postage would have had a fvf of .63 (5.25% on 12).  Now its $2.40.  "Simplying" the fees has ended up with them 4X as much for things like that in Canada.  OPs combined ebay and paypal fees are exceeding 30% on the actual item in a lot of cases.  Even if they massivley increased sales to the point a store subscription started to help, 1% is immaterial.  There is no possibility of a store making any sense with what they are selling now unless its during a free promo only

Message 29 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

op has no listing cost at all so not an issue

 

Before ebay started messing with the fees something like $12+$12 postage would have had a fvf of .63 (5.25% on 12).  Now its $2.40.  "Simplying" the fees has ended up with them 4X as much for things like that in Canada.  OPs combined ebay and paypal fees are exceeding 30% on the actual item in a lot of cases.  


I think your math is incorrect.  FVFs on sales years ago were based on the item sales price + shipping cost.  So FVFs at 5.25% on a $12.00 item with $12.00 postage would have been $1.26 (the FVFs on the $12 shipping being $0.63 plus the FVFs of $0.63 on the item price itself).  

 

Now you're right, it would be $2.40 for the sale + shipping currently, which is not 4 times more expensive, but just under 2 times (1.475% to be exact).  

 

However, eBay now bases shipping FVFs on the first domestic shipping cost only (as I'm sure you know).  Which means that, with the proper listing strategies, based on the proportionate location of a seller's buyers, a seller can strategically avoid a lot of FVFs on shipping, and eliminate those FVFs completely on many sales.  That wasn't possible prior to the change in calculation of FVFs. 

 

I agree that the OP has no listing costs at the moment, based on only 26 current listings.  However, it is very much an issue if he wants to, and can, list more.  If he has no interest in ramping up his business then no, a store does not represent much savings.  

 

The way I see it, there is a point at which having a store makes good sense, but it's far below $2,000 per month in sales, as I've pointed out above, because of the offset of savings on listing fees.  It also depends, of course, on the number of items the OP wants to be able to list.  If he's happy at 20 to 30 per month, then there is no reason to switch to a store. 

Message 30 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

I have an Honours in Business Administration and worked as an accountant and I do not understand math. Nice.

 

Rose, I do believe Toby's shot was aimed at me and the equally unintelligent Pierre. You got slammed with a different shot. Regardless, Toby is right and the rest of the world is wrong. It is a little mind expanding, but, "I can dig it".

 

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Message 31 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

Fees were not on shipping when fvf were 5.25 (and even that was only on the first $25).  Shipping fees were relatively recent in ebay's existance (started 2011)

Message 32 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@mr.elmwood wrote:

I have an Honours in Business Administration and worked as an accountant and I do not understand math. Nice.

 

Rose, I do believe Toby's shot was aimed at me and the equally unintelligent Pierre. You got slammed with a different shot. Regardless, Toby is right and the rest of the world is wrong. It is a little mind expanding, but, "I can dig it".

 


You still havent told us how the op can save anything by paying more in fees for a store that will increase the total fees paid.  Let alone how it will make a difference to fees being very high due to the issue of high postage cost reltaive to item cost

Message 33 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

Hi everyone,

Please remember to keep the discussion friendly. Hostile comments/interpersonal disputes may result in warnings and/or the thread being locked.

Thank you for helping us keep the boards welcoming for everyone!

 

Liz

Message 34 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

You still havent told us how the op can save anything by paying more in fees for a store that will increase the total fees paid.  Let alone how it will make a difference to fees being very high due to the issue of high postage cost reltaive to item cost


I know this wasn't directed at me, but please read my posts 22 and 28 again.  It is possible to deal with high postage to item ratios and still avoid FVFs with the proper strategies.  

 

No one has yet provided a calculation for the listing fees the OP would pay on, say, 400 fixed price listings plus 100 auction listings per month (the current allowance for a basic store).  I'm not familiar enough with the present non-store listing fees to do this quickly -- could someone oblige, to help out the OP in his decision-making?  I doubt anybody wants to run mostly auctions these days on eBay. 

 

So in my view the savings on listings is the real issue, not FVFs, and of course it all depends on whether the OP wants to expand his listings.  If so, he can save substantially with a store.  If not, then he may want to continue listing without.  

 

Part of the problem I'm seeing reported by non-store sellers is that the type of listings they are permitted is being restricted, in addition to categories and the actual number allotted.  Add that up, and it does mean a lot of limitations for a seller who wants to grow their business.  Relying on the type and timing of promos isn't the answer for everybody.  Just another consideration with respect to store ownership. 

Message 35 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

OK, so here's what I found (it took forever to locate this, eBay has radically changed their help pages): 

 

Basic fees for auction-style and fixed price listings

 

Insertion fee (per listing, for any duration, including Good 'Til Cancelled*)

Final value fee
(per item)

Your first 50 listings

(per month)

Free

(exclusions apply)




10% of the total amount of the sale

Maximum fee is $750

All additional listings over 50

(per month)

$0.30

(Insertion fee credited back if your item sells, for eligible auction-style listings)

 

 

So, if the OP wanted to list as much as he could with a basic store (up to 500 free currently, including .ca and .com), it looks as if he'd be paying $135.00 (450 paid listings x $0.30) per month, if my calculation is correct.  The "exclusions" under "Free" shown above are categories that wouldn't apply to the OP (boats, cars, trucks, etc.).  

 

I actually thought that free listings were more restrictive (at least based on complaints by non-store sellers over the last few months), but perhaps the non-store fee schedule has been revised just recently, along with the store allotments.  

 

If the OP continues to list 50 or fewer items per month under this fee schedule, then a store may not be worthwhile.  But if he thinks he can take advantage of even half the usual basic store allotment of listings, he'll save a significant amount every month over and above the monthly store fee, especially if he sets up the proper shipping strategies. 

 

 

Message 36 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

Its the other way around.  Non store can use their free listings how they want, FP, auction, or auction+BIN.  Stores only get free auctions in some categories and dont get free BIN.  OP is using  auction+BIN.  Now that they have restored 50 free listings, per site, plus promos there is no reason small time sellers would want a store at extra cost if they don't have the sales to support it 

Message 37 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

Its the other way around.  Non store can use their free listings how they want, FP, auction, or auction+BIN.  Stores only get free auctions in some categories and dont get free BIN.  OP is using  auction+BIN.  Now that they have restored 50 free listings, per site, plus promos there is no reason small time sellers would want a store at extra cost if they don't have the sales to support it 


Actually eBay has just revised their original restrictions on Auction-style listings for stores.  It now covers a wide range of categories (see the category list following the chart below).  This isn't too bad, and looks like it would cover most of what the OP sells.  Besides, eBay tells us that fixed price is the way to list these days, with over 70% of sellers now using FP. 

 

I'm not sure the issue is whether the OP would have the sales to support a store, but whether he would want to be able to list more to sell more.  He seems to have a pretty good turnover -- better than most in fact -- based on the limited number of items he lists and the number of items he's sold recently.  At that sell-through rate, I think he'd do well to try out a store for a few months on a monthly basis if he had enough items to be able to take advantage of it. 

 

I still maintain that promos aren't reliable enough, nor often of the right type, to base a business on -- if that's what the OP wants to do.  For casual sellers however, they're fine.  

 

 

Insertion fees for Store listings (in C$ or US$)
Fees are per listing, for any duration, including Good 'Til Cancelled *

   

After using your free listings

Store type

Fixed price

Number of free insertion fee listings per month
(exclusions apply)

Auction-style

Number of free insertion fee listings  per month in select categories

Auction-style insertion fees

(credited back if your item sells)

Fixed price insertion fees

Basic

200

100

$0.25

$0.20

Premium

500

100

$0.15

$0.10

Anchor

2,500

100

$0.10

$0.05

Stores free-insertion-fee auction-style listings include the following fashion and collectibles categories:

  • Clothing, Shoes & Accessories

  • Health & Beauty

  • Jewellery & Watches

  • Antiques

  • Art

  • Coins & Paper Money

  • Collectibles

  • Dolls & Bears

  • Entertainment Memorabilia

  • Pottery & Glass

  • Sports Memorabilia, Cards & Fan Shop

  • Stamps

  • Toys & Hobbies

 

 

Message 38 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are

The op's issue is "fees on shiping cost"  due to Canada post, ebay charging fees on shipping, and the high postage to item price ratio of many of the items.  Nothing to do with listing cost, doesnt pay for listings, doesn't come close to using the free ones available.

 

The only answer is...there is no answer.   Sell and pay the fees, or don't sell low price/parcel rate postage items here at all.  A store subscription would make no difference whatsoever other then to increase total fees paid ~$15/month.  That some people can save up to 6% of the gross with a store is irrelevant to the op who's items don't

Message 39 of 41
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Re: I have a question about the 10% final shipping fee, 10% for selling, 10% for shipping, fees are


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

 

OP is using  auction+BIN.  


I hadn't taken a look over the OP's complete list, but I see you're right.  And it appears that none of the sold items were sold at BIN.  However, I notice the majority sold with just 1 bid at a very low price, with shipping mostly far more than the sales price.  

 

I do know something about vintage china, and in my opinion it looks as if the OP is seriously under-pricing his items in order to attract bids, and then losing the advantage he's gained in sales by paying a lot of FVFs on the shipping end (as he mentioned in his original post).  

 

Whether he takes on a store or not, my suggestion would be to take a look at what competitors are selling at what prices, and then price his items competitively at fixed price, but some with free shipping to offset his shipping FVFs on the others. 

 

For example, rather than listing a bone china teacup at $4.99 ($12.99 BIN) with $14.00 shipping, and ending up selling it at $5.99 with 1 bid, list it at fixed price for, say, $19.99 with free shipping.  It may take a few experiments to come up with the right formula for these items, but in my view he's practically giving a lot of these things away and then paying through the nose on the shipping.  That doesn't seem like a workable long-term strategy.  

 

It must be admitted, nonetheless, that it is getting harder and harder on eBay to sell items of lower value that require parcel shipping within Canada.  Again, depending on where the OP's buyers are traditionally from (U.S. or Canada?), he may be able to save substantially on shipping FVFs by strategizing his listing methods. 

Message 40 of 41
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