Item Not Received Cases Opened by Buyer Far Too Quickly

[number60000]

This has been my greatest frustration with selling on ebay.  Buyers on the other side of the planet don't seem to realize or appreciate how long it takes items to reach them when they choose to pay for surface mail. 

Now I'm thinking that ebay has some automatic function that warns the buyer that they are close to the point when they can not open an item not received case.  

I've complained time and again to ebay that surface mail, especially from Canada, to Europe, Australia, Asia, South America can take up to eight months.  Naturally they don't seem to care.

I have put up warnings to overseas bidders about the length of time it will take, on my auctions.  On items that sell high, I send messages to the winner before I ship the item about the length of time and beg them to be patient if they choose surface mail.

Now I can't even claim insurance on these parcels due to yet another Canada Post policy that screws us.

I have no choice but not to allow surface mail options to my international buyers.  I expect to loose a lot of sales, as someone pointed out, Canada Post rates are ridiculously high!!!

Thank you ebay.  I'm so close to closing up my ebay store...

[toff3]

Number,

I don't know what you sell but if your shipments weigh more than 500 g, I would urge you not to discontinue offering surface mail overseas. As you say, Canada Post rates for International air mail are simply too high and viable only for expensive, high-end items.

I always tell my overseas buyers that their purchases, if sent surface, will take at least one month and maybe 2 months (3 in the case of Australia) to reach them. However, I also assure them that, if they haven't received their order within that time frame, I will be happy to refund them in full and I ask that they repay me when it does arrive. I've never had a buyer insist on airmail and I've only twice in 13 years had to refund a buyer (1 in Italy, 1 in France) for an INR. In those two instances, the package allegedly disappeared without trace.

IMHO, because of CP's exorbitant rates, we Canadian eBayers selling heavy items (in my case, books) have no choice but to offer surface mail.

Tom

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

In 8000+ sales, I used surface once. Customer in Turkey insisted for the rate and understood the time frame. All went well.

Simple, do not use surface. I had found the bubble mailers are keeping a lot of my widgets in the lower shipping price.

I keep my widgets in certain parameters for weight. I price accordingly. There are a lot of things I do not sell because of weight or that they are over size. I just will not do it.

You sell weird stuff, tail lights to candy bars.I gave up on tail lights as they are too much hassle. You are flat rating the exact same as me when you can. That I find to be the best tactic.

[femmefan1946]

Yes, eBay does tell our customers when the dispute deadline approaches. Which is fair, in my opinion.

We are required to get the purchase to the customer in a secure and timely manner.

Which leaves out surface shipping. It just takes too long.

Since the cost of shipping is paid by the customer, as long as we give the S&H, he can decide if the extra cost for prompt Air Mail arrival is worth it to him. If it isn't, he can make the choice of not buying.

And some sales are not worth having.

Give Air Mail shipping as the only choice for overseas customers. Give the S&H cost in your listing. Stop the problem before it becomes a problem.

Again, some sales are not worth having.

[number60000]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm tired of the ones that I do warn in both the auction and in messages how long it takes and yet still open up 'item no received cases' against me within four weeks.

[number60000]

I feel though that the deadline should reflect to reality of the time it takes for the shipment. Canada to New Zealand or to Europe is easily six weeks and more reasonable to expect eight weeks. If buyers can open a claim against me and have ebay refund them out of my pocket in four weeks due to them being impatient and unreasonable. That doesn't seem fair. But I agree, due to these impatient buyers I'll have to restrict overseas sales to airmail only and live with the loss of potential bidders.

[number60000]

It certainly is a weird combination! When I first opened my ebay store I wanted to keep the two types of auctions separate, like keep the week long car parts auctions out of my store, but it would require setting up a new ebay account without the feedbak.

[number60000]

How do you keep your buyers from opening up an unreceived case against you for items that take longer than the ebay deadline to open up a case?

[recped]

---

@number60000 wrote:
How do you keep your buyers from opening up an unreceived case against you for items that take longer than the ebay deadline to open up a case?

---

By giving them a refund! The eBay deadline is 45 days from payment, if you can't get an item to a buyer anywhere in the world in less than 45 days you are not using the appropriate shipping method.

[toff3]

I continue to be amazed by how Canadian eBayers resolutely refuse to face reality, That reality is the failure of Canada Post to provide adequate, reasonably-priced overseas mail service to their customers. That reality lies at the heart of the OP's complaint.

Femme  writes that the overseas customer has a choice between paying the "extra cost" of airmail and not buying at all (because surface mail takes too long). Some choice! Some "extra cost" of airmail! For Small Packets, air rates are at least DOUBLE surface rates, which are already high. Femme seems perfectly happy to deprive her customer of any chance to acquire an item at a more or less reasonable shipping cost. Finally, she airily declares that some sales are not worth having. End of story. Too bad, so sad.

Recped advises that, if a seller can't get the item to his buyer within 45 days, he's not using the "appropriate" shipping method. As though we have a practical choice in the matter. We don't. Canada Post doesn't give us one.

It is patently obvious that surface mail overseas, in its present form, is an unacceptably slow and erratic service but it is equally obvious to me that, because of Canada Post's exorbitant air rates, we eBay Canada sellers have no alternative but to use it or at least offer it to our customers.

Why do we allow that state-sanctioned highway robbery called Canada Post to offer no better than second-class service to our customers?

Tom  

[pocomocomputing]

The 45 day eBay/PayPal 45 day limit is an eBay/PayPal issue. If the 45 days were 60 or 90 days, then using surface might be a feasible option to use. But still the buyers ability to open a case as soon as they want causes the problem. The very real threat of bad feedback and or low DSRs makes it difficult to use slower services on eBay.

Some sellers have posted that they use surface with little problems when selling from their own websites or other venues. While the threat of a PayPal case still exists since PayPal may be used as a payment, the threat of bad feedback and low DSRs is not as bad.

I personally used Small Packet Surface a few times (3) to UK and Germany when I first started selling on eBay.  The items arrived within 4 to 6 weeks.  But the last time I used it, the buyer messaged almost daily where the item was after 4 weeks.  It arrived in the 5th week and I got low DSRs on it.  The buyers were all advised that it takes time. So I no longer will ship Surface. Not worth the trouble it makes selling on eBay.

[toff3]

Poco,

Thanks for your response to my post but I'm afraid it adds nothing to the debate because it goes over the same old ground  - options, threat of bad feedback, low DSRs - and misses my point. Sure, if the buyer is willing to shell out double (and more) the surface rate, fine, no problem. I've yet to meet a buyer who was. As for shipping DSRs, they're supposed to be for cost and for dispatch, not transit, time. If a buyer is ignorant of this (and many if not most are) I blame eBay for not using clearer terminology.

Most of the time, we Canadian sellers have no option - and that's a fact.

Tom 

[pierrelebel]

"Sure, if the buyer is willing to shell out double (and more) the surface rate, fine, no problem. I've yet to meet a buyer who was..."

Double what?

Do NOT offer the surface option (unless you sell specialty items to overseas buyers willing to wait several months for them).

Some sales are not worth having.

[cumos55]

When Small Packet was insured, but without any tracking... buyers got very concerned as that 45 day period approached.  ONly with actual delivery did the buyer know where the parcel was

With International Parcel Surface,  the tracking shows that the parcel has reached the destination country by about Day 35-37  and the buyer can see where the parcel is.

Australia was a difficult option  because surface mail was 8 to 10 weeks and sometimes more....Depending on when the shipping container was "full".

Blocking Australia stopped the Paypal/shipping headaches... Sometimes a sale is not worth the aggravation

[toff3]

Pierre,

I wrote

if the buyer is willing to shell out double (and more) the surface rate, fine, no problem

This means at least double the surface rate, i.e. at least twice - that is, two times - the surface rate,  or 2 X the surface rate. 

You wrote

Do NOT offer the surface option (unless you sell specialty items to overseas buyers willing to wait several months for them)

I detect a glimmer of reason in your thinking. What you are saying is, in effect, that both sellers and buyers should fully understand the implications of using surface mail. Exactly what I've been saying for years. I would add, for the umpteenth time, that buyer and seller should also fully understand eBay policy in regard to INR claims, refunds, etc.

But the old refrain "some sales are not worth having"  simply reflects the sad fact that Canada Post, because of its inefficiency and/or incompetence, is being allowed to dictate to us our terms of sale.

Tom  

[pocomocomputing]

eBay/PayPal with the 45 day limit and the DSR dictates a seller terms of sale more than Canada Post shipping options.  Many sellers would offer Canad Post surface rates if did not take so long to arrive and raise the probability of an INR claim or low DSRs.

Some sellers such as yourself or cumos55 have used surface shipping option successfully. I have also on the 3 occasions I tried it.

But the risk of an INR or low DSRs for shipping is higher for surface.

I use Light Packet USA and International a lot. It is cheap and fast. But I still get a lower DSR on shipping time DSR once in a while.

I know that shipping time is dispatch time to get in the mail not delivery time. Some buyers do not and rate on the delivery time.

One low DSR hurts a low volume seller. It has happened to me in the past. Sales stopped for 3-4 weeks. All because of a set of low DSR 1's with a positive feedback.

[pierrelebel]

"the sad fact that Canada Post, because of its inefficiency and/or incompetence,"

That may be true and there is nothing Canadian eBay sellers can do to change it.

Sellers need to adapt to the Canadian reality as it exists not as we would like it to be.

[cumos55]

Surface  mail worked well if the time fro delivery was less less than 40 days....

The closer the delivery time was to 45 days... the more difficult the option became....  with buyer concerns   and with many...... sometimes too many...  Paypal claims....

Tracking has made a difference.... mainly because the buyer can see when the parcel has arrived in the destination country.

[toff3]

Poco talks about Light Packet. This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. LP is an airmail service. And BTW, Poco, do you really think postage of $17.75 for an International O/S envelope weighing less than 300 g is cheap? And that's $2.50 more than an identical O/S letter.

Poco, you write that I and Cumos have used the surface mail option "successfully". I don't know about Cumos but I can assure you that for me surface is not an option. I have no option but to use it because the alternative - air - is outrageously expensive. How many more times...?

Cumos keeps on about the tracking of International Surface Parcels.  Firstly, tracking doesn't reduce delivery time, which would put a snail to shame, and secondly, overseas tracking of ISPs is entirely at the discretion of the receiving country (there's no obligation for them to track).

Lastly, Pierre advises that we need to adapt to Canadian reality. I agree 100%.

The Canadian reality is that, because of a faulty business model,  Canada Post charge such high air postage rates that their customers are forced to use international surface mail, a lousy, third-rate service. That's what I call adaptation.

Tom 

[pierrelebel]

"Canada Post charge such high air postage rates that their customers are forced to use international surface mail, a lousy, third-rate service."

Moving from air to surface shipping is the way you adapt to the circumstances.  That is your choice. It works for you, your products and your customers.

Nobody is "forced" to offer or use surface.

It may not by the choice of others who may prefer to charge more and offer "air" or, for low cost/high shipping items, simply refuse to sell overseas.

As stated so many times by so many posters, some sales are not worth having.