eBay

deltone · ‎10-05-2003

First let me say I'm one of those overly patient sellers who does not hold a hard-line approach as to when the payment arrives. I've found that for the most part, this has worked VERY well for me. The following is a timeline of what has transpired in this transaction from beginning to date: (I'm copying and pasting the emails so that any spelling or grammar errors are as they were).

Before auction ended on Aug 21, buyer sends me email stating - Hi there I sorry for the bid retraction is just i sew something on the bid paid and i look for it to see is everything is ok

I replied immediately - Not a problem. THANKS!!! (Even though I wasn't really sure what the heck he meant in that email. But he'd retracted and rebid so I figured, all is well

EOA-Aug 21, invoice sent immediately
Email from buyer same day - Hi there i be sending money order
Another email same day - I need your address for me to send money order
Same day I send him addy (which was in the invoice I'd sent him, but oh well, often they don't read)

Aug 23, email from buyer - Hi deltone I send the Money Order saturday Aug 23 2003 should arrive in 4 to 7 days.
Same day I reply with – Thanks for the heads up. I'll let you know when it arrives.

Aug 29 email from buyer – Hi there Have you receive my money order?
Same day I reply – Hello Not as yet! I'll email you when it arrives. THANKS

Sep 3 I get following email from bidder – Hi there Wow have not yet get my money order I mail the money order to XXXXXX P.O. BOX XXXX Little XXXX ON XXXX I do not know if the money order got lost in the mail
Same day I reply with - When did you mail it?(I just wanted to clarify and double check date)
Same day he replies with - I send the Money Order Saturday Aug 23 2003
So, same day I reply with - I've not received it yet, but will let you know when I do.

Sep 7 he sends me another email - Hi deltone I be reporting missing Money Order to the U.S Postal Service very soon
Same day I reply with – I've not received it yet so that might be a good idea

So, no further correspondence until Sep 20. I get the following email:
It look like i am not going to get my item i paid for. It seem that you have take my Money i be sending a e-mail to ebay and liveing you a bad Negative seem i no have my item yet

So, I read this, and I'm in a bad mood to begin with for totally unrelated reason, so I reply to him with the following (I WAS STEAMING)
Excuse me?? You did not pay for the item. I don't send the item until I get paid. Do you think for one minute that after thousands of auctions on ebay that all of a sudden I'm going to turn into a crook and take your $11??

I seriously suggest you rethink your approach in dealing with people. You kept telling me the money order is in the mail, the money order is in the mail, but still, I don't receive it. How dare you all of a sudden out of the blue send me this threatening email!

I'm not the one playing games here. My feedback will stand miles above yours so you just be very careful who you threaten. If I get your money order, I will send the item, if I don't get it, then I don't ship. If you really did send a money order, then I seriously suggest you put a tracer on it. Don't go accusing me of taking your $11. Seems you have a history of making such claims according to your feedback.

Now, I know there will be those that say, I wasn't professional and shouldn't have lost my cool, but frankly I'm fed up with this guy. I've not pressured him or anything, and I've replied promptly to every one of his emails and then boom, this carp!!!
I have 1149 unique positive feedback, (2 negs but believe me, they were NOT deserved) and he has 7 positive and one neg (well, should have been as the comment was very negative, but the seller accidently put it as a positive), in which he accused some poor seller of basically the same garbage.

So, later in the evening I come home to this email:
It seem you have take my money and not send my item i have won seem you have two bad Feedback and i can see that something is going on with you.
XXXXXXX( 9 ) Jun-10-03 14:03:30 PDT XXXXXXXX Seller
Complaint : Took FOREVER to send. Had to email and find out what was taking so long.
XXXXXXXX(-1) Complaint : June 6, 2003 still no DVD I want my money back!!!! Jun-06-03 16:53:38 PDT XXXXXXX Seller
He had copied my two negatives rec'd back in June. One of them is a naru buyer who tried to scam me and is now naru due to some other activity (shill bidding from what I can gather from his history, so he wasn't an honest person in any of his dealings) The idiot fails to acknowledge my 1351 positives (of which 1149 are unique)
So, I email him back with the following:
Listen, I don't have to explain myself to you. If you look, you'll see that the id XXXXX is no longer allowed on ebay (naru'd) due to trying scam people, including myself. The other one got the dvd but was an impatient fool, which is rather common on ebay.
I have well over 1000 feedback and my ratio is darn good. You do what you have to do, but do NOT threaten me. I will not be sending you any product when I didn't get paid. Why don't you take it up with whoever you supposedly bought the money order from. Stop bothering me.

So then, I get ANOTHER email from him, stating that he didn't send a money order, but that he sent cash!!! All those previous references and now he's going to tell me he sent cash??

I couldn't believe it!! So, I wrote him again, and this time I wrote:

"Perhaps you need to get your story straight. I have copies of MANY emails where you state you sent a money order. Now you are saying it's cash. They say that to be a good liar you must have a good memory. Let me refresh your memory....I count at least 8 references to MONEY ORDER, count them."

So this was over a week ago, and now today I get this email from eBay saying he's filing fraud against me and that I have 30 days to fix things up with him.

I did previously block him from bidding, and reported him to eBay for feedback extortion, but got nowhere with them. Any ideas? THANKS
I'll post the actual fraud BS……this guy is as thick as a concrete block. I cannot believe that ebay doesn't put a stop to this moron's accusations and tell him to drop it. I am trying to not let this idiot get to me but frankly he is making my blood boil. Mistake on my part, giving this jerk so much power over my mood.

deltone · ‎10-05-2003

Now, at this point, I know that I should just not let this guy bait me as it's like arguing with a two year old, but I'm so frustrated that a scammer like this is allowed to harass an honest seller like this. I actually emailed the other seller he tried to pull this garbage on and the guy confirmed that this person is a fruitcake. Here is the fraud report. It's absolutely ridiculous!!!

09/28/2003 11:34 AM - FROM: nofun0
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I sent a payment but never received any merchandise. Item Nick Chavez Straightening Pomade NEW 8 oz (2946696649 Seller: deltone the seller send me e-mail and say i would not mail your item
10/02/2003 08:37 PM - FROM: deltone
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This bidder has sent me numerous emails, some threatening negative feedback. His story keeps changing. Sometimes he said he sent a money order, then he said he sent cash. I did NOT get his money order, or cash. I have over 1100 feedback and I'm not about to scam some guy, especially for $11. He already has a negative feedback for this same type of scam. You can check with that seller (as I did and see for yourself). IF he sent a money order, he needs to put a tracer on it. I didn't get it. Simple as that.
10/02/2003 09:10 PM - FROM: deltone
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In addition, I can provide copies of all of his emails as proof of his change of story, and of what I am saying. If I receive a payment from a bidder, I send the item, if I don't receive a payment, then I don't. I have filed a NPB against this person to receive my final value fees. This guy has been a thorn in my side. Let him prove I cashed a money order from him. He can't do it because I didn't get it.
10/04/2003 05:48 PM - FROM: nofun0
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I have Signature form6401Post Office to see What happen to the Money Order i send you Money Order Serial No 70298035176 Amount of Money Order $16.51 Date Year 03/ Month 08 / Day 23 This Money Order was send to Debbie XXXX P.O. BOX XXX XXXXXXX,ON Canada XXXXX i have my customer's receipt and as the time i would know what happen to my Money Order the Form 6401 will tell me if the have been paid, stolen, i will know soon as 180 days for international Money Order
10/04/2003 06:00 PM - FROM: nofun0
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As now of today i have not yet received the item i paid for. And to detone i have my receipt of the Money Oder i send you $16.51 not $11.00 like you say.
10/04/2003 09:11 PM - FROM: deltone
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The $11 I was referring to was the ending cost of the item, not including shipping. Whatever amount you may claim you sent, I didn't get it. Plain and simple. Your beef is with the Post Office, not me. I didn't get payment so I didn't send the item. What do you not understand about this? What if I told you I sent the item? What if you didn't get the item even though I said I sent it? Then what? Like I said, you need to have the issuer of the money order put a tracer on it. Also, why did you say in your second last email to me that you sent cash? I really do not need to continue to repeat myself, so let's try this one more time. I DID NOT GET YOUR SO CALLED PAYMENT. Stop wasting my time, and go talk to the Post Office. I've had enough of this.
10/04/2003 09:13 PM - FROM: nofun0
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mvill12377( 9 ) Jun-10-03 14:03:30 PDT 3327520046 S Complaint : Took FOREVER to send. Had to email and find out what was taking so long. Response by deltone - EOA 5/20,Pd w Pypal 5/20, Item sent 5/20 and email to adviseSlow PO not my fault
10/04/2003 09:16 PM - FROM: nofun0
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graceismygift( -1 ) Not a registered user Jun-06-03 16:53:38 PDT 3327463152 S Complaint : June 6, 2003 still no DVD I want my money back!!!! Response by deltone - EOA5/21,Py't cleared 5/29, Shipped5/30,BuyerHastyWithNeg,DidRec,NightmareTrans
10/04/2003 09:41 PM - FROM: nofun0
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AS the time I was sending deltone payment. I have send some to other seller that I buy from and some of the payment. I send cash and some I send Money Order. I have look out all my customer's receipt and they was deltone have the payment paid in Money Order
10/05/2003 10:18 AM - FROM: deltone
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You've wasted enough of my time with this. I will try to make myself as clear as possible and maybe you will understand. If you sent me a pay't and put a trace on it, you need to wait for the results Harassing and bothering me is not getting you, or me, anywhere. I really don't know what you want from me. I didn't get the payment so what do you want me to do? Send the item just because you say you sent the money? I'd have to be a fool to do that. You keep referring to 2 negatives I received back in June, but fail to acknowledge the over 1100 positives. Those two negatives were from 2 fools who also didn't listen to reason. Believe me, there are lots of fools in the world, and I'm not one of them. You really need to let the so called tracer run its course and you will see that I did not receive or cash your money order. If I received it I would have sent your item, like I've done with the 2000 or so other sales I've done. You need to find a new hobby as I'm done with this, as I'm done with you.
10/05/2003 12:00 PM - FROM: nofun0
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As you can see to everyone who is looking at this Complaint detone keep telling to everybody that I am a fool keep up deltone. The word of Debbie XXXXX that a buyer buy an item and not yet received the item is a fool well that what she say on her own word. I am not Harassing you and bothering you becouse I would to know what happen to the Money Order I send you. and the two bad negatives you have it they for everybody to see and read. Its tell about you. PS I be sending copie of the Money Oder to ebay by U.S. Mail not by e-mail. As you all can see I have not received item from deltone.
10/05/2003 12:03 PM - FROM: nofun0
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I sent a payment but never received any merchandise.
10/05/2003 07:44 PM - FROM: deltone
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Hmmm, seems someone has a habit of this making this type of accusation: nofun0( 7 ) 31-Aug-03 11:08:17 EDT 3037669976 S Complaint : A Bad Seller Investigation for Fraud Excessive Shipping & Handling Response by XXXXXXX- FRAUD???? RETURN YOUR $ CHECK MY FEEDBACK Y WOULD I RIP A MESSILY $31 OFF OF U
10/05/2003 07:45 PM - FROM: deltone
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XXXXXXXX( 232) 31-Aug-03 11:47:46 EDT XXXXXX B Praise : BEWARE STUPID BUYER, READ LISTING BEFORE U BID Response by nofun0 - Bad Seller Fraud Excessive Shipping &Handling seller is in Investigation

deltone · ‎10-05-2003

By the way, in my original post, I was incorrect about one thing......I didn't get the fraud report today, it was on 28 September.

deltone · ‎10-05-2003

Oh, I guess I wasn't supposed to post that fraud report. I didn't realize. Sorry! It's been removed.

your-chic-shopper · ‎10-05-2003

fraud report

I asume if the value is under 20.00 really thier is nothing they can do . You can however email your powerseller about this . Tell them to keep all emails on file

deltone · ‎10-05-2003

I did email them about this but so far, nothing. The fraud report process is a bit of a joke. It's just him saying some crap, then me responding, and then him spewing more garbage and me responding. It's a joke really. Kind of like a school yard battle......you did it, no, you did it, no you did it,............and so on and so on! sigh

deltone · ‎10-05-2003

Hey, now the fraud report I pasted is back. I guess it was allowed. LOL

jaymor8 · ‎10-06-2003

Hi Delt....I wouldn't worry too much. I went thru the exact same thing...with the emails back and forth on the fraud complaint....then I never heard another word from them again. I think that they realize when someone is just being excessively stupid or when someone is blowing a lot of hot air. Just let your reputation carry you thru this and it will work out in your favor!

Jackie...

deltone · ‎10-06-2003

Thanks Jackie! I hate being involved in this thing because I find myself being dragged into this childish brawl, and I don't want to be part of such a childish exchange but boy, is this guy making me angry!!!!! I will try to ignore him though and hope that ebay uses common sense in this matter.

jaymor8 · ‎10-06-2003

I swear to God, I think some people are desperate for interaction of ANY kind and they have nothing better to do than harass nice people. You don't want to get involved in the brawl, Delt.....then don't put up yer dukes. A person can't have a fight by himself.

It sure has a way of making you appreciate all the really terrific people that you meet in a days work though, huh? The ones who are there to have fun, not to cause trouble.

Jackie...

deltone · ‎10-06-2003

I totally agree Jackie. The fool just left a couple of more lame posts on the report but I'm not responding. Why give him an audience!! LOL

ajandjamie · ‎10-07-2003

Hi Delt - i can completely relate to your story, i have s similar one that resulted in my only neg. Lady sent a payment (apparantly cash by mail) and when trying to contact me, every time she simply replied to the auto-messages from ebay (so of course they didn't come to us, they went to ebay neverland....nice to know that ebay has now corrected this problem)

Anyway, it was summer, i was letting things slide for people i hadn't heard from instead of getting my usual reminders out. All of the sudden, i have a neg...my first communication from the buyer! I was shocked, and when i e-mailed her the reply was "well i thought that would get your attention since you have been ignoring my e-mails".

Well, when she forwarded copies of the emails to me, and i was able to point out her errors, i was expecting an apology at the least, was i suprised to get a rant back that sorry she wasn't a genius like me (to figure out where to email somone) and i could keep her $4.25 blah, blah, blah!

Well, the money never showed (my guess would be due to sending coins in an envelope, likely tore open in a mail machine) but i was fuming for days and days over it. Finally i just decided that with all the idiots out there, we are bound to run into one sooner or later, and so it spoiled my 100% positive feedback, (which i was boiling about) but now it's not a big deal anymore.

Just wanting to let you know i can relate!

A.J

deltone · ‎10-07-2003

AJ, yes, you're so correct. It's really not worth getting too worked up about as in the scheme of things, it's really small potatoes.

One of the two guys who negged me said the following to me regarding the neg he left. He said (and this is a direct copy and paste) "Besides its always good to have at least one negative
comment It shows everyone that you are not a robot or
some super cyborg taking over out world. - Joke"

He was an impatient newby and my first negative. I mailed the item upon clearing of the payment. (It cleared on 29 May.) On 6 June he left me a negative. He b*tched about how I was on vacation (which I informed all of my buyers about and that's how he knew it, but the stupid thing was, my being on vacation had nothing to do with anything.......)

When he emailed me that stupid "joke, robot" comment, I decided to neg him. I felt that he is not the type of person that most would want to deal with and it was my feeling that I wasn't happy with the transaction seeing the way things had gone. He was FURIOUS that I left him a negative and he wrote to me. I said, "geez, it was just a joke, and it's too bad you don't see the humour in it". LOL That made him even angrier.

cello10 · ‎10-07-2003

Hi Deltone,

I really feel for you, I do. Its no doubt frustrating dealing with these kinds of people. Obviously his claims about you having 2 negs (when you're a 1000+ rating) means you must be pulling funny stuff shows that he doesn't really know anything about ebay. And, as the "evidence" shows clearly, its an open and shut case in your favour.

Having said that though, what you need to learn from this experience is to avoid expending so much energy and emotion on these types of situations, otherwise you will wear yourself out. Especially since this is an inexperienced customer who hasn't got a clue, and you are no doubt an experienced seller. We are basically retailers as sellers on ebay and I use the following policies....

Rule #1 ELIMINATE EMOTION FROM THE EQUATION. There will always be scammers and difficult customers at some point. Accept this as part of the territory and don't get mad or argue with the customers. Just refer to your policies, implement them and MOVE ON.

Rule #2 If, after a customer has paid and they have received their merchandise, a problem arises and there is any question as to whether you made a mistake, fix the situation. Maybe something wasn't clear in your item description or you were inaccurate. The item is damaged in transit. Of course this always comes down to a matter of perspective, but don't argue, just fix it and MOVE ON. Refund or exchange, and pay the return shipping.

Rule #3 If you don't receive payment, don't ship, keep all your evidence and don't worry. After a couple of weeks, tell your customer its up to them to trace the money order. If its a one time item, don't hesitate to re-list it. Getting their payment to you is not your problem. Let them worry about it, and don't waste your time arguing with them. If they give you a negative so be it, just respond "payment never received, why would I ship?". If they file ebay fraud, so be it. Tell your story to ebay, which is a short story because its simply you never got payment. Its up to the customer to prove and provide evidence that you received their payment, and how are they going to do that if you didn't receive anything? Of course, it goes without saying that you should put these people on your block bidder list, and even block them on your email if they keep sending harassing emails.

I developed my policies (customized for ebay) based on what I've learned by reading about the Walmart's of the world and how they do things, as well as being in the retail business for over 16 years. It takes valuable energy to run our ebay biz's, we can't afford to waste it on these type of situations. If I was you, my only response to anything and everything with this guy and ebay is "sorry never received payment". Do what you have to do and MOVE ON as soon as possible.

deltone · ‎10-07-2003

Very sound advice Cello. You're correct. It's pointless getting emotional over the whole thing. With 300 million US citizens, and around 30 million Canadians, (of course not all are eBayers) you are bound to get a lot of crazies. I'm definitely now ignoring the guy. I know I have nothing to worry about as I definitely didn't get the payment so it's up to him to prove it. I didn't bother responding to his last comment on the fraud report, as it's pointless. Can't talk to a brick wall.

firedept10 · ‎10-09-2003

deltone,

More horses a$$es than there are horses in this world. Now lets sit back, grab a big martini and say AHHHH! Sorry you had to deal with this. Hope that martini makes it feel better.

Don

oldmill195 · ‎10-11-2003

Hi deltone,
This is my first post and first time reading the board. Even though it sounds like you have things under control, could not resist sharing with others. Several years ago when I first started on ebay, I had a buyer return a miniature tea set 6 months after she received it without even emailing. Claimed it was a miniature and she could not use it. Returned it broken, too. Of course measurements were in the listing, it was obviously a miniature. Well I decided I was not going to refund and it was "the principle of the thing". Well she filed a fraud report, tried to get her money back from paypal and generally made my life miserable for 3 months! I responded to everything in detail and even went through square trade at my suggestion and my expense. I won in every category but I am sorry to say, I never make decisions based on the "principle" anymore. We have a joke in my house, whenever I am deciding how to deal with an unhappy buyer, someone says, "Remember Sue!" I always give the customer the benefit of the doubt and even though I know that they are not always right, sometimes it is easier to just move on. Great info on this board! Anyone have any idea why my feedback is showing up as private in this post?
Renata

oldmill195 · ‎10-11-2003

Oops, sorry, the feedback thing is fine.

amberwoodottawa · ‎10-16-2003

This is my 2nd post as a fairly new Power Seller member and I must whole-heartedly agree with Cello.

I went crazy and lost my cool when I received my first (of 2) negatives. It was from someone I purchased an item from and they never shipped it. After 5 months of emailing the vendor,and emailing eBay (no help) and making long distance phone calls to Florida where the vendor resided, I finally filed for a refund through my credit card company and filed a negative response for the vendor who in turn gave me my first negative. PayPal investigated and found that the vendor never shipped the product and in fact kept my money (that vendor is still trading on eBay, something I will never understand).

When I received my 2nd negative, after the customer backed out of taking an order for 6 instruments, didnt respond to my emails and after 4 weeks paid for only 1 instrument and only after they thought they may get a negative feedback, they gave me a negative feedback claiming I never responded to them. I even gave them terrific feedback as they were new to eBay and starting a new business and I thought my comments would help them.

It was at that moment when I realized you can do everything in the world to try to please people however there are those who are going to try to take advantage of you or attack you without merit or reward other than some demented personal satisfaction they must get (miserable little lives they have).

While positive feedback is important to me, I am no longer worried about the odd idiot who comes along and out of know where, wacks you on the back of the head and leaves you with negative feedback.

We go out of our way to be positive, to correct situations that didnt work out 100% for a customer and to consistently communicate with our customers. I no longer waste any energy or time on those freaks who crawl our of the woodwork. If I can detect it at the outset, I will discourage them from buying from me.

It is just a shame that after eBay and PayPal complete an investigation (as they did in my case) they dont remove the negative feedback.