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puckstopshere · ‎01-30-2013

Flush with a $120-million settlement for giving up its land, an area native band hopes to get some of London’s.

The move — laid out by the Chippewas of the Thames First Nation in a comprehensive document — would make London home to Ontario’s first big-city native reserve.

The reserve would include industrial development on “reserve lands” along Hwy. 401, an area the city itself has identified as a sweet spot for economic growth, and could also include other land bought and designated with “reserve” status inside the city, where many natives already live.

“We are not talking about sharing furs or fish or the beaver trade — we are talking about modern economics and resource-sharing,” Chippewas Chief Joe Miskokomon says.

“Look at the industrialized-zoned land on the 401, from Wellington Rd. to Veterans Memorial (Parkway). That’s the kind of land I’m interested in.

I’m not interested in being isolated.”

While urban reserves are common elsewhere in Canada, with about 120 of them across the nation, big-city reserves

are foreign to Southwestern Ontario.

Mayor Joe Fontana said he and Miskokomon have had early talks about city-First Nation partnerships, the mayor “excited” about the potential.

“If there are unique opportunities to work together . . . why wouldn’t we look at potential investors or partners?” Fontana asked.

Detailed talks are a long way off, the city waiting first for the Chippewas to finalize its settlement and economic development plan, he said.

But when used for business, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation argues, such reserves tilt the playing field — competing with established businesses, but without paying the corporate and goods-and-services taxes others pay since native enterprises are tax-exempt.

Native Canadians working on urban reserves don’t pay income tax, either, notes Colin Craig, the federation’s Saskatchewan regional director.

“When you plunk a reserve down in the middle of an urban centre and give businesses on that property a special taxation advantage, it’s not fair to other businesses,” he said.

But another observer, Ken Coates of the University of Saskatchewan, argues urban native reserves are a success story.

“They are all over the place and they are working very well,” said Coates, who teaches public policy. “You have situations here where local governments are saying, ‘I wonder if we could get an aboriginal population out here?’”

But while municipalities often welcome First Nations investment, the public can sometimes be resistant, said Hayden King of Ryerson University, who teaches politics and has advised Ontario’s aboriginal affairs minister.

“The atmosphere is that, ‘Uh-oh, Indians are going to move into the city, this is going to be bad,’ because there is an underlying racism. But the fact that there are 120 of these across the country speaks to the fact of how innocuous they are,” he said.

In fact, King noted, there are examples where a newly-established reserve employs more non-natives than natives.

Businesses in London might not look kindly on tax advantages that might give First Nations an unfair business edge, said Gerry Macartney, chief executive of the London Chamber of Commerce. “If anything, we strive to get that playing field balanced as much as we can.”

But natives could argue just as easily free-trade zones municipalities are eager to set up hardly level the playing field.

“These are complicated times and complicated issues, and the only way to get progress on these things is to start talking,” said Macartney.

To set up an urban reserve, a First Nation must negotiate with the city to get services such as water, sewer, power and emergency protection. Typically, a deal is worked out in which the First Nation pays for those services at a cost that would be similar to property taxes.

The Chippewas’ plan mentions not only developing land along the 401, but also forming partnerships with Chatham and Sarnia.

“We will select land based on the economic and strategic opportunities each selection can offer us,” the plan says. “For example, we will certainly select a number of parcels along the 401-402 corridors, especially for the purpose of developing businesses and individual projects. “Similarly, we will strive to obtain parcels in central London and in other municipalities, as well as agricultural land . . .”

Craig said reserve businesses can pay employees lower wages while ensuring take-home pay is the same, meaning lower expenses and higher profits.

“We’re just pushing for a level playing field,” he said.

But Ryerson’s King said he doesn’t think the reserves are “a great deal” for First Nations, either.

“We talk a lot about getting away from the Indian Act, but the laws the urban reserve has to follow are laws relating to land and resources under the Indian Act. It’s inviting the federal government back into your life,” he said.

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/01/29/native-reserve-eyed-for-london

puckstopshere · ‎01-30-2013

Contrary whay some (one) may believe, I have no problem with this. I think this is the way we resolve the issue with the natives and theri treaties. One band at a time. This settlement gives the natives the opportunity to create their own destiny. The government has been taking the one band at a time approach and for many it is working.

The only drawback that I see is that the cities have always been a draw for some natives - and for all the wrong reasons. Although, in the case of London, many of the natives in this area already have one foot in London anyways.

How many stolen cars from London end up on the reserve? My former boss was involved in a lot of "activities" in London - several of which were legal. I realize that these natives are the ones that are highly visible and do not represent the majority of the bands in the area. They are just the ones that create all the bad PR.

As part of the natives $120-million settlement, the band needs to reach out to those natives who have been tainted by big city life and attempt to get them on the straight and narrow. It would be a good start to cleaning up an image that is largely undeserved, but exists none the less.

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎01-30-2013

I was wondering when you were going to mention this. I had read it in the London newspaper a couple of days ago and thought…..I’ll just wait and see how long it takes for puck to do a thread about it or mention it in a thread.

Technically the band is the Caldwell First Nation with approx 190 members. It gets a bit complicated after that with their history and land they once owned.

120 Mil in or near the city of London isn’t going to buy them much these days. Then one has to take into consideration everything else the land needs and those costs. It’s a tricky situation and I’m still learning about it myself.

You may have noticed the comments in the LFP. It’s like a racist convention! Maybe you should join and tell them to keep an open mind.

I think this is the way we resolve the issue with the natives and theri treaties.

How does this ‘solve’ it? ….as you put it. It’s still a Reservation and all the rules through general treaties with the Crown and hence the government of Canada still apply. I’m not sure what you are looking at when you use the word ‘solved’.

This settlement gives the natives the opportunity to create their own destiny.

All Reservations can create their own ‘destiny’ although some (not all) Indian act rules do hinder them. Of course it depends on where the Rez is and what land or resources they have and if they will be lied to or manipulated by the government or corporations.

How many stolen cars from London end up on the reserve?

Well darn....you were doing so good….then you go and bring that up. Why? Sure some Natives steal cars and so do many other races….including white people. Just a suggestion but since you are in the city take a walk down to the cop shop or the OPP and ask them out of all the stolen cars…..how many were stolen by Natives?

And in case someone brings it up…..drugs that is…..tell them to take a walk EOA (that’s east of Adelaide Street for those who don’t know). It is the central location for many homeless and people on the streets with mental problems who should not be on the street and of course there are the addicts and the alcoholics and the ladies of the night. I was down there about 3 weeks ago meeting someone at the Regis and then off to the T&C. I was looking around as I always do and how many Native people did I see who were having problems? ……….2. How many other people with equal problems did I see?………rough guess about 250 to 300.

the band needs to reach out to those natives who have been tainted by big city life and attempt to get them on the straight and narrow.

That is a good thing. They already have it in TO, it’s called Anishnawbe…my very special Cree lady worked there for years. They provided everything from health care in general to Native traditional health care, to traditional teachings etc etc etc. The interesting thing is ….although Natives work there and do a lot of the care and teaching….the man who runs it is East Indian. Go figure!

But also London has it’s own Native Centre N'Amerind Friendship Centre as well as another somewhere near Queens and William but I think they just handle Native and government issues.

brandeentertainment · ‎01-30-2013

How many stolen cars from London end up on the reserve?

Well darn....you were doing so good….then you go and bring that up. Why? Sure some Natives steal cars and so do many other races….including white people. Just a suggestion but since you are in the city take a walk down to the cop shop or the OPP and ask them out of all the stolen cars

I know why he brings it up it's because in some cumminities it is true ..Northern Ontario is a good example of what Puck is talking about but Prior your also right ...

My experience Southern Ontario and Northern Ontario NAtives are much different and same could be said about Canadians and Americans but Here is an example I can use without it being my 2 cents or my opinion ...

I have a Good friend and his Father is from a Reserve i called wahgoshig This man is literally so ashamed to be native and from that reserve that he left over 20 years ago and Will not use his Status card which he actually no longer has and will not ever admit to you he is native .. I know because I have been friends with the family forever ...

In his words 100% not mine in anyway shape or form .. All the Kids are lazy and usless Huffing gas or taking oxy and drunk and all the men are Drunks and useless the only good ones are the women but it's too bad they are mostly beaten and abused by the drunk useless men ...

I VERY MUCH CLEANED THAT STATEMENT UP ... but this is about 1 of 10 examples I can give of Natives I know that feel the same about a few reserve another being in Moosinee but anyways in many places this is not a stereotype but almost true about whole reserve and on the other hand There are 100's of reserves that are totally opposite of this but My whole point is both of you are right so why call it racist or why argue about it your both right on this point ...

puckstopshere · ‎01-30-2013

I love the St. Regis.

Like to sit on the patio in the summer and watch the world go buy. Town and Country - have been in it a few times. Preferred Mash McCann's across the way. My ex boss did most of his business on Horton near Wellington and on Wellington from Horton to the river. H lived near Labatts. My native friend Alex lives on Simcoe Street. There are a number of crack houses in his area. My guess is that you were in an area where not a lot of natives go. Also, if one looks at the number of natives living in Lndon versus all the other nationality, I would expect to find a lot in anyone area.

solved

Just what I said. By giving each band the money and the opportunity to decide how it wishes to live in the future, we are solving the problem. You don't want the money going to the natives with a lot of strings attached, do you. That is the past. $120,000,000 shared amongst 190 natives = $631,000 each. If invested as a group - rather than individually, this is a nice nest egg. They can attract outside investors, as other bands have and do some real good for themselves.

I was wondering when you were going to mention this. I had read it in the London newspaper a couple of days ago

The article I read was in this mornings paper.

if they will be lied to

I would have thought the natives had learned enough about lawyers that they should no longer get lied to and not see it for what it is. And, they certainly don't trust the government.

and ask them out of all the stolen cars…..how many were stolen by Natives?

It was a retired cop that told me that the reserve is the first place that they check when cars are stolen.

puckstopshere · ‎01-30-2013

This forum sucks today.

I keep going to post and it freezes up forever.

The last message was done on Word and proof read.

When I pasted it and posted it, there were missing letters.

Time to shut down for maintenance.

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎01-30-2013

so why call it racist or why argue about it

Well I wasn’t comparing the mentioning of cars to racism. I only mentioned racism when it came to comments in puck’s local newspaper, which is owned by guess who……..Sun Media. I’ve found it interesting that in that once independent newspaper that now since being bought by the company that owns the Sun, any article about Harper there are no comments allowed…..but articles about Muslims, Natives, even the one time member of the Liberal parliament but now the mayor of London… they are all open season!

I’m not going to disagree for a moment with anyone about the troubles on some Reserves in areas of Canada, nor the problem that the kids are going through. The thing is I’m not isolating these Native children and adults with problems to anyone else of some other races with the same problems…..they are all for the most part in the same boat. Their histories are different and their social structure may be different but it’s all the same thing what’s behind it, when you come right down to it.

So you will ask of course what are these things. Well if I can articulate it sufficiently and keep in mind that all of these points have their individual differences, they are the following…..

- Family. Kids with a lot of problems come from dysfunctional families. Then you have to look at why are the families dysfunctional. These reasons are as varied as they are many. Then of course there are people who will blame the parents for their dysfunction. The problem there is, no one has lived in their shoes, so we cannot judge nor paint them all with the same brush.

- Education. For many Native kids access to the good education other students receive is available. But for those up north they should be given the best of the best because they have so much to overcome. I’m talking good schools the same as can be seen in any city from elementary school to high school and with good teachers equal to anyone in any other city in Canada…..even if they have to be paid a lot more.

- Lastly is work, or something to do. I don’t care who a kid is or from where, any kid will get into trouble if they have nothing to do after school or on weekends. Things to do can take many forms on Reservations. It could be sports or a club or at a certain age doing work that might lead to a trade later, or it could even be becoming in some ways responsible for learning and upholding Native traditions within the tribe. Whatever the idea…..keep the kids busy.

The First Nations people have gone through a lot in the past 300 years and it has affected them generation after generation. But now is a time of gathering and healing. They need to do this for themselves as individuals but also as a race, a society and a Nation. They need to go back to ‘self’. This cannot be done if they all leave Reserves and scatter across this wide country. Neither to they need to be absorbed into the society. They need to get a solid footing on who they are again and their past. It’s like building a house…first the foundation has to be solid and square and straight and then you can build what you want from there.