Overcharge on Shipping fvf's for combined shipping

[triber]

I have just got off the phone with eBay. I often get  buyers who purchases an item and pays for it, and then purchases more.

I have been refunding the first payment and then sending a new combined shipping invoice. I checked my account this morning, and found that I was still being charged the final value fee on shipping of the original payment.

According to eBay, this will not be refunded, I am doing the buyer a favour by combining the items, but I take a loss on the shipping fvf's.

[block36]

This is quite frequent scenario for me.

In cases like this I refund all individual payments and then issue one combined invoice.

In each refund I add a message COMBINED INVOICE TO FOLLOW.

Usually buyers are happy with procedure.

Of course, this brings some work on us, but avoids problems later.

In cases like this PAYPAL charges only in accordance with combined invoice.

And at the same time, I think PAYPAL is legally very wrong when the refund for lower shipping is not allowed under fvf.

They actually retain money for NOTHING.

[triber]

In cases like this I refund all individual payments and then issue one combined invoice.

In each refund I add a message COMBINED INVOICE TO FOLLOW

Yes, that is what I have been doing. However, I just discovered that I am charged final value fees for the shipping on each item I refunded PLUS I am now charged shipping on the combined shipping cost on the new invoice. So we are paying twice for the same shipping fees.

[block36]

You are correct!  I just checked one of the recent COMBINED shoppings: for shipping cost of $8.52 I was charged $2.17.

I do not remember that we were advised about such a procedure, therefore it is not legally right again.

Did you try to talk to eBay about case(s) like this?  Each time!

I hate to think that this is a solution.

You know, under eBay.com there is an option to add a message regarding final payments and I used to have: PLEASE DO NOT PAY FOR EACH ITEM SEPARATELY - I WILL ISSUE A COMBINED INVOICE AND IT WILL CREATE LOWER SHIPPING COST.

I do not know such an option with eBay.ca.

[pierrelebel]

" do not know such an option with eBay.ca"

You can add payment instructions on all eBay sites, including eBay.ca. (at the very bottom of the first page of "Sell your Item" form). I suggest "If purchasing more than one item, for faster and more efficient service, please wait until an invoice is sent combining all purchases with one lower shipping charge.  You will save money!"

I suggest you remove all comments about extra fees in the description of the listings such as:

"PLEASE NOTE: BECAUSE OF RECENT CHANGES WHICH MEAN FINAL VALUE FEES ARE BEING CHARGED ON SHIPPING COST AS WELL AS FEES ON THE ACTUAL ITEM, IT IS IMPORTANT TO READ THE FOLLOWING:

IF YOU PURCHASE MORE THAN ONE ITEM, THE AUTOMATED INVOICE FROM EBAY MAY BE WRONG.

IF IT IS TOO HIGH, I WILL ADJUST YOUR POSTAGE DOWN TO THE CORRECT AMOUNT FOR MULTIPLE PURCHASES.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO WAIT UNTIL I SEND YOU A REVISED INVOICE BEFORE YOU PAY BECAUSE I WILL BE CHARGED FEES ON THE COMBINED SHIPPING IF YOU PAY THE ORIGINAL INVOICE, AND I WON’T BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A FULL REFUND ON COMBINED SHIPPING

IF YOU PURCHASE MORE THAN ONE ITEM PLEASE WAIT UNTIL I SEND YOU A COMBINED SHIPPING INVOICE BEFORE PAYING"

Buyers do not read, do not understand and do not care. Too many words.

I suggest the KISS system.

A single line offering buyers reduced shipping charge for multiple purchases when combined in one payment should do (most of the time).

When a buyer purchases multiple items and makes multiple payments despite instruction to the contrary, DO NOT REFUND the entire payments as you will end up paying extra fees ($0.30 per transaction) to PayPal for nothing.  Simply refund the buyer for the excess shipping for every payment.

This way, PayPal refunds to you the 2.9% (or 3.9%) charged on the amount you refund the buyer.

At that time, you can also send a message to the buyer advising you have refunded the excess shipping caused by the multiple payments.  Suggest that for all future transactions they wait until you send an invoice combining all purchases with only one reduced shipping charge - for a more efficient and quicker service.

At no time should the buyers be blamed (directly, indirectly or by inference) for the problem nor added fees be mentionned.

As far as eBay fees charged on the extra shipping, nothing you or anyone can do about it.  It is a cost of doing business and that cost should be included in your selling price or deducted when you need to refund a buyer.

[block36]

Thank you very much, Pierre, for your recommendations.

I have created the first listing using the payment instruction wording you suggested.

Will have to do few bulk revisions for other items... gradually...

Thank you again!

[recped]

Most of my buyers follow my instructions....

To qualify for multiple item shipping discounts please wait for a combined invoice before making payment

The ones that don't wait pay more for shipping than they need to. Sometimes I will refund part of the excess (depends on the amount) and when I do I deduct any additional fvf's.  If it involves multiple payments then I will also deduct for the extra PayPal transaction fees.

The vast majority of my buyers wait for a combined total the ones that don't......oh well!

eBay has no way of knowing why you are making a partial refund and generally speaking a partial refund means the seller made some sort of error.

[avionsunantiques]

Overcharging, double billing or over billing by corporations - whatever you want to call it, is an unlawful act.

I havn't gone through the numbers at my end yet, but I suspect I may also have been the victim of the above crime by Ebay.

The situation I'm wondering about is combined shipping to the US from Canada.   

As I understand it, Ebay is supposed to bill me based on their calculation of what shipping would have been if sent domestically.   First of all, domestically varies depending on which part of Canada Ebay uses as the destination.   Next, the cost of a combined shipment within Canada, would have a different rate of change (as package size and insurance cost increases) than the actual cost to the US.

If Ebay is overbilling its customers, then it is engaged in Criminal Activity.   If you have evidence of such criminal activity, then it needs to be reported.    If you are in the US, it can be reported to your State's Attorney General, in Canada, it can be reported to your Province's Attorney General.

Remember, if Ebay has intentionally overbilled you, then you have been the victim of a crime.  Small amounts over-billed to millions of customers, can add up to massive mulimillion dollar theft.

Lastly, it should go without saying, you must be very careful you have your facts right before you make an allegation of criminal activity.

In my own case, I suspect it, but I have yet to crunch through the numbers to confirm or deny my suspicion.

[pierrelebel]

"it (eBay) is engaged in Criminal Activity"

If you really believe that, you should immediately stop using eBay as a venue to sell your products.

Nobody wants to deal with a criminal.

[pjcdn2005]

As I understand it, Ebay is supposed to bill me based on their calculation of what shipping would have been if sent domestically.

Yes, but only if that amount is less than the actual shipping paid by the buyer.
Unless you have free shipping or are using letterpost, in the majority of cases, the U.S. shipping will be less so that is what you would pay fvf on.

First of all, domestically varies depending on which part of Canada Ebay uses as the destination.

They are supposed to use your own postal code so if the item cost $8 to send to your next door neighbour, that's what the fvf would be based on.

Next, the cost of a combined shipment within Canada, would have a different rate of change (as package size and insurance cost increases) than the actual cost to the US.

Depending on the item, the opposite is just as likely.

If you ship a 200 gr package small packet air to the U.S. small packet air would be $7.61, 2 of those items shipped together for a weight of 400 gr or so, would cost $10.10.

I find that a 200 gr increase in a package within Canada often increases the price just slightly, if at all. If you increase the size of the box, the price may go up because the postage price for parcels shipped within Canada is figured out on a dimensional basis but again...that is often just a couple of dollars unless the box you are using is much larger..

The info above is how it is supposed to work. You would have to check your invoice to see if it is working that way for you. I haven't had any problems but it is quite possible that there are some glitches.

[triber]

Thanks Pierre, I will re-word my comments. I felt it was a good thing to let buyers know that the eBay invoice might be wrong and I will adjust it. Because I sell yarn, it is almost impossible to put accurate postage when someone buys large quantities, especially Canadians. Some buyers purchase different lots and the shipping can be way off.

I think i have made it quite clear that I offer combined shipping, but some people just don't see it. A couple of weeks someone purchased 8 items and paid for each one. It's not just the fvf's, it's a set amount (I think 50 cents) for each transaction.

I am no longer going to refund payments and send a new invoice, I will just send a refund to the buyer working out how much I need to cover the extra fees. No more paying fees twice!!

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I knew eBay loves that and is taking advantage that many sellers will not recognize that.  That is why I put in my listings that I cannot refund combined shipping fees because eBay don't refund it to me if I refunnd my buyers and the buyers took notice of that and wait for my invoice for the combined shipping.

I have no problems only one same "insane" person that kept paying her payments immediately for each item even I told her about 10 times to WAIT FOR MY INVOICE!!!  She bid and won 100 items at one time and you can imagine how much shipping costs that the automated invoice system send to her and she paid for all of them.  I told her if she wants a refund for the insane shipping costs that she paid immediately.  Like she bid and won 100 items that are about $400.00 and the shipping costs are $650.00!!   She told me to keep them!!  So I upgraded the mail service to XpressPost and keep the difference.   She is insane and no matter how many times I told her over and over and I am sure that eBay realllllllllly love her because eBay charges me the final vale fees on $650.00!!

It is 3rd time and I upgraded the mail service to XpressPost each time.  I am amazed that she cannot wait for my invoice for one low combined shipping cost.  She just won't wait for it.  I told her she won't get any credit or whatever for her immediate payment.   She just don't listen or understand even I explained in a very simple English but no luck.  I am frustrated because she can ding on my feedback that I don't give her lower shipping costs but it is not me that, it is the eBay's automated invoice system. 

I even told her that the eBay's automated invoice system is ideal for only ONE (1) item but not for multiple orders/items but she didn't get it.

That is where I suspect that it is a conspiracy on eBay's part for that purpose to "steal" a lot of $$$ on shipping costs by charging us the final value fees on the shipping costs.  I knew many of us don't make any profits on the shipping costs, I am sure that some of us paid the difference from time to time, due to dollar par that we cannot forsee.  I don't even include any so-called "handling charges" like packing tapes, labels, ink, etc., etc., and here eBay is "stealing" from us by charging the fnal value fees on the shipping costs.  eBay is in violation of their own policies.  eBay claims that we shouldn't charge any excessive shipping costs but here eBay is "stealing" from us which is ironic!!

And now with the removed mail services and replaced with Tracked Pack, I am sure that eBay is over the moon with happiness because they are going to charge the final value fees on those new mail service which is much higher.

[recped]

I think i have made it quite clear that I offer combined shipping, but some people just don't see it. A couple of weeks someone purchased 8 items and paid for each one. It's not just the fvf's, it's a set amount (I think 50 cents) for each transaction.

I am no longer going to refund payments and send a new invoice, I will just send a refund to the buyer working out how much I need to cover the extra fees. No more paying fees twice!!

That's basically what I do, if it's a dollar or two I don't refund anything unless asked. If it's more than that I'll send a refund with the appropriate adjustment for my troubles.

One situation where I might do the full discount refund is when a buyer wins an Auction, pays immediately, then finds another Auction listing and places a bid. Can't really fault them for paying quick and then buying more, different if they were already bidding on the second item when they won the first.

[mitchina5knkz]

I originally came in to research other types f shipping fraud and found this startling realty!

It is really disheartening to see how buyers AND sellers are getting the shaft here.  Can't SOMETHING be done?  A ban, a protest a collective strike?  This is absolutely ridiculous and evil of eBay and Paypal!

My search was due to a company that refuses to combine 3 items into one shipping to reduce what would otherwise be 3 times more if shipped together.  Why is this?  How can a ball cap cost the same to ship as a t-shirt? 

What sane person would agree to pay three different charges of $4.72 a whack to total $14.16 for 2 t-shirts and a ball cap?  Is i just me that is getting pissed off about this?  Or have I lost my brain and this is a normal fee for shipping and handling?

[bb_cool_stuff]

I would say the seller is sane.

For somone that sells caps & t shirts i would say the shipping price is pretty reasonable especially with the change in postal rates.

It is the cap that makes the difference as it would have to be shipped in a box with the two t shirts. The two t shirts could probably be shipped in a poly mailer for just over ten.

[cumos55]

Sometimes  you just might buy several things from one seller...

and each item is at a diiferent location....

It is sellers such as these that do not combine shipping, and state this in their listings.

Could be a dropshipper.

[signsix1]

I honestly dont understand why EBAY changes FVF's on the shipping charge. They want the seller to absorb every dine of cost while leaving the buyers with having to consider the shipping cost when bidding on an item in order not to pay more than the value in total then they make it even more costly to the seller by charging FVF's on the shipping.

They (EBAY) don't ship my products, Canada post does. So EBAY and PAYPAL both take a cut of the shipping which makes no sense. Why on earth should Ebay be profiting on the Item sale AND the shipping?

Bottom line...This just makes it more expensive for the seller to sell and the buyer to buy in the long run.