POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

Good news overnight on the looming postal lockout/strike front. To paraphrase The Godfather, the federal government has made an offer they can't refuse. 

 

https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/blogs/announcements/details.page?article=2016/07/06/canada_post_pre...

 

Canada Post Prepared to Submit to Binding Arbitration

 

Federal Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour, MaryAnn Mihychuk, has asked both Canada Post and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW-Urban and CUPW-RSMC) to submit to binding arbitration to resolve the current impasse at negotiations.

 

The Canada Post Corporation has already agreed. "It is our hope that CUPW will consider submitting to binding arbitration to end the uncertainty. Canada Post is extending the current 72-hour notice period to Monday at 12:01 am to provide time for the union to consider this option."

 

It would be suicide for the unions to refuse, although I do expect they will make a show of doing so and wait until the final moments to concede. Binding arbitration is the best we can hope for at this point.

 

 

 

 

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

Well, thank you for mansplaining that.

 

If men and women are paid the same for rural delivery, then there is no discrimination .

No.

If a professional is dominated by women, it can suffer from pay (or other ) discrimination even if men in the profession are paid the same. Or even if men in the woman-dominated profession are paid less than the women.

 

The example I know from my own experience were the case managers at Ottawa Carleton Home Care Services.

A case manager was a Registered Nurse with a  Science degree and a minimum of five years experience. She handled up to 100 clients and their families as an average workload, including in house visits.

And like most nurses, were subject to physical attacks by patients on a regular basis.

When they went for pay equity by the municipality they chose police detectives as their comparison.

I understand it was the down time from attacks that made them chose that male-dominated group.

 

The detectives otherwise had quite different backgrounds. They only needed Grade 12 to qualify for the exam, for example.

But on the other hand they got hurt on the job a lot less. And got paid a lot more.

 

It took a few years, but the nurses got their pay equity from an arbitrator.

 

 

https://www.edgarsnyder.com/blog/2015/05/15-five-dangerous-things-nurse.html

http://time.com/4326676/dangerous-jobs-america/

 

 

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

I have relatives who live on a farm about 50 miles west of Winnipeg.....  It was where my mother grew up.

 

Up until about 50 years ago  they had to drive to the nearest town to pick up their mail.

 

Then came delivery to a box at the end of a driveway.

 

I suspect they did not get daily delivery.

 

Rural mail delivery means travelling in a vehicle to a number of locations... farms, residences and more.

 

Driving means mileage/vehicle cost.

 

Rural deliveries can get most hectic when one considers winters on a flat prairie  versus a forested, versus a hilly mountainous area... or even northern Canada.

 

Rural delivery appears to be so much different than urban delivery....   

 

One can assume that rural delivery is almost paid on a contract basis... mileage, versus number of locations on a route,  and then number of times each week.....  Delivery could also depend on weather conditions...

 

Each route is different,  and very difficult to  equate in relation to urban delivery...

 

I am trying to understand things on a very simple basis...... never thought of how complex the situation  can be.....  and whether such complex situations can be considered....  and in fact eventually won by a claimant of discrimination.

 

 

 

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

Your explanation made perfect sense to me.  As far as.i know the cupw made no mention of the gender equality issue until the last week or so.  Up until then, they referred to the difference in pay between rural and urban but Not mention that it was a gender issue.  My memory could be wrong but I don't remember them mentioning gender equality in 2011 either so  I think that gender was bought up as a red herring only.  

 

 

 

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT


@pjcdn2005 wrote:


As far as.i know the cupw made no mention of the gender equality issue until the last week or so.  Up until then, they referred to the difference in pay between rural and urban but Not mention that it was a gender issue.  My memory could be wrong but I don't remember them mentioning gender equality in 2011 either so  I think that gender was bought up as a red herring only.  

 


2011 isn't 2015 or 2016, though.  Ask Justin.  Smiley Wink

I think CUPW's point is that the work of rural workers is devalued compared to that of urban workers and it's no coincidence that rural workers are largely women.  Following that line through, the work of most female-dominated professions tends to be devalued.  Note that as males make up a smaller and smaller proportion of those in teaching, teachers are having a harder time keeping afloat, at least here in British Columbia, and certainly in many US states.

"Male jobs" are seen as having a certain skill set, "female jobs" a different skill set.  The male skill set is generally considered--often erroneously--to be superior.

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

Excellent snipe mr.e! I haven't seen one in a looooong time!

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT


marnotom! wrote:


I think CUPW's point is that the work of rural workers is devalued compared to that of urban workers ...................

______________________________________________________

 

What are the job requirements for delivering mail in a rural setting?   You have to have a valid driver's licence and a car.  Perhaps the most demanding aspect of the job is that you have to be willing to hit the road even when driving conditions are poor.

 

In other words, it's a job that almost anyone can do well.  I doubt that other jobs which are similarly demanding come with comparable pay or benefits.  It's basically a minimum wage job.

 

 

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

There was one a week or so back that Rose-dee missed.

 

She needed, ahem, re-education.

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT


@sylviebee wrote:

@marnotom! wrote:


I think CUPW's point is that the work of rural workers is devalued compared to that of urban workers ...................

______________________________________________________

 

What are the job requirements for delivering mail in a rural setting?   You have to have a valid driver's licence and a car.  Perhaps the most demanding aspect of the job is that you have to be willing to hit the road even when driving conditions are poor.

 

In other words, it's a job that almost anyone can do well.  I doubt that other jobs which are similarly demanding come with comparable pay or benefits.  It's basically a minimum wage job.

 

 


In any contract negotiations, both sides come in with an extended grocery list of "demands".

 

Within that list are the important ones, and then there are the "throw-aways".

 

Focusing on one item, that may be a throw away, misses the point of the whole negotiation.

 

The union's job is to get as many full time employees as possible, highest pay, enhanced benefits, good pension. Pretty much what any employee, anywhere, wants.

 

CP's job, in negotiation, is the exact opposite. Pretty much what every employer wants.

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@sylviebee wrote:

What are the job requirements for delivering mail in a rural setting?   You have to have a valid driver's licence and a car.  Perhaps the most demanding aspect of the job is that you have to be willing to hit the road even when driving conditions are poor.

 

In other words, it's a job that almost anyone can do well.  I doubt that other jobs which are similarly demanding come with comparable pay or benefits.  It's basically a minimum wage job.

 


There's more to rural mail service than just delivering mail, though.

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

What are the job requirements for delivering mail in a rural setting?

 

Literacy would be helpful. In some areas carriers must be bilingual, because the customers may speak only English or only French.

A knowledge of the area, including back roads that are not always on the map and the ones that are but shouldn't be.

The ability to lift up to 50 lbs was always on the job descriptions I saw for delivery jobs. (looks like it's 30 kilos or 66 lbs)

Willingness to work overtime.

 Actually here is what Canada Post says:

https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/pages/aboutus/details.page?article=rsmc

The requirements start at 2:11.

 

I suspect they left out 'bondable'. I certainly hope so.

 

And did you notice the carriers are supplying their own vehicles?

 

Here's more info: from the application form.

 

Please be aware that if selected you will be required to provide the following documents:
• Your resume
• A current driver’s abstract that is dated within the last 30 days
A character reference letter from someone who has known you for the past 2 years and
• Proof of past employment (ex: pay stub, confirmation of employment letter).

The successful candidate will

• Project a positive and courteous manner when dealing with customers face-to-face
• Be adept at sorting, collecting and delivering mail items, in a safe and timely manner
Be available to cover off absences and vacations for Rural and Suburban Mail Carriers
• Acquire and maintain knowledge of local infrastructure including roads, customers and delivery receptacles
• Ensure mail is safely secured in their possession
• Process various CPC products and services (Change of Address Notification, Damaged Mail, Items Delivered Bill (IDB) and others)
• Wear Canada Post identification while on delivery and ensure its visibility while delivering and collecting mail from customers
• Lift and carry items up to 66 lb/30 kg

Job requirements (Education and Work experience)

Work Experience:
• Experience in making deliveries and operating a motor vehicle in all kinds of weather and traffic conditions
Plus:
• Must be able to provide a vehicle that meets with the MANDATORY VEHICLE requirements outlined on this poster

As part of the selection process selected candidates will be required to complete a security screening process

 

 

I italicized a couple of points in there.

Minimum wage to me is something like dishwasher or counter clerk at Timmie's. I've done something very similar to the latter.

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

Lots more about the RSMC in CPC Proposals  dated June 26 

 

http://cupw-rsmc.infopost.ca/canada-post-tables-offer-to-cupw-rsmc-to-avert-work-disruption/

 

The first letter gives an indication how route holders... delivery personnel get paid......

 

Activity values  and parcel payments towards the end of the first letter

 

http://cupw-rsmc.infopost.ca/app/uploads/offer_to_rsmc_handout-e.pdf

 

 

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@mr.elmwood wrote:

There was one a week or so back that Rose-dee missed.

 

She needed, ahem, re-education.


Yup, duly retrained, Mr. E., thank you.  

 

So, umm, now can I get that wage hike? Smiley Very Happy  Oh yeah, I nearly forgot, what about that extra week of vacation?  Maybe you could throw in a defined pension too?

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

I toiled 35 years for my defined benefit pension. Thing is worth it's weight in gold.

 

I accepted less in wages. I accepted less in advancement. I accepted less in a lot of things to get the pension. The pension did not come without a price.

 

To get the pension, you have to give up other things.

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Where did you toil for 35 years? A bank? School?
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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

Everyone knows by now that MR E worked for 35 years at the Liquor Store in Manitoba

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Everyone but me. Now that you mention it, though. I do remember.
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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT


@mr.elmwood wrote:

I toiled 35 years for my defined benefit pension. Thing is worth it's weight in gold.

I accepted less in wages. I accepted less in advancement. I accepted less in a lot of things to get the pension. The pension did not come without a price.

 

To get the pension, you have to give up other things.


Oh, don't I know it.  My husband stuck it out in a job for nearly 40 years for the same reason, putting up with a lot of disadvantages and unbelievable malarkey that people in the private sector being paid far more wouldn't stand for.  They just move on to a better employer. 

 

No, decent pensions aren't without their personal sacrifices.  Basically you trade the first 3 or 4 decades of your adult life hoping you'll live long enough to enjoy the pension in your last 3 or 4. 

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT


@rose-dee wrote:

@mr.elmwood wrote:

I toiled 35 years for my defined benefit pension. Thing is worth it's weight in gold.

I accepted less in wages. I accepted less in advancement. I accepted less in a lot of things to get the pension. The pension did not come without a price.

 

To get the pension, you have to give up other things.


Oh, don't I know it.  My husband stuck it out in a job for nearly 40 years for the same reason, putting up with a lot of disadvantages and unbelievable malarkey that people in the private sector being paid far more wouldn't stand for.  They just move on to a better employer. 

 

No, decent pensions aren't without their personal sacrifices.  Basically you trade the first 3 or 4 decades of your adult life hoping you'll live long enough to enjoy the pension in your last 3 or 4. 


There are many jobs in the private sector that involve sacrifices and which don't have pensions. Every sector has advantages and disadvantages.

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

Those without a pension from where they work,  use the RRSP option to build up a retirement fund....which is based on the present economic situation... specifically interest rates.

 

Everyone should use the RRSP option to build a retirement fund... whether their work offers a pension option or not....

 

It used to be that the amount  that one put in an RRSP gave a tax refund that paid the Tax on the house....due at the end of June

 

Plan it right and things do work out.

 

The Winnipeg Free Press has a regular weekly article about specific people planning for retirement.... true life experiences

 

Too many choose to spend money  as opposed to save money, as they plan for, or approach retirement....  and then not have enough for a comfortable retirement.....

 

--------------------------------------------

CPC wants to make the pension the equivalent of an RRSP fund.....

 

 

 

 

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POSTAL LOCKOUT/STRIKE UPDATE: BINDING ARBITRATION PROPOSED BY GOVT

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
There are many jobs in the private sector that involve sacrifices and which don't have pensions. Every sector has advantages and disadvantages.

Oh, no question.  I'm certainly proof of that, having worked in the private sector all my life.  Yet I always had the kinds of options and mobility open to me in the workforce that most unionized workers don't have.  

 

Leaving a unionized job entirely means a larger sacrifice the longer you stay.  I think that's what was being referred to above.  Even moving laterally within a unionized sector often means forfeiting seniority (and hence a lot of the benefits one has worked to obtain for years).  You sacrifice freedom of choice for a certain level of guaranteed protection.  My husband used to call it "the golden handcuffs".  It may seem a negligible trade-off from an outsider's point of view, but it most certainly requires sacrificing some personal options. 

 

One thing pensions (and unions) do help to do is provide a stable, long-term, experienced workforce who have a stake in their jobs.  One of the most difficult issues for private corporations is the revolving door of employees.  It costs a company a lot to keep training and breaking in new people, and often they just get enough experience to move on to the next (better paid) job.  

 

I once worked for a private company that offered a rather minuscule but better-than-nothing pension to its longer-term employees.  The trouble was that almost no employees stayed long enough to qualify (perhaps that was the reason they offered the pension in the first place).  The qualifying period was 5 years, and as I recall there were 2 employees who were eligible by the time I left (after 3 years).  Later the company went broke and the pensions were moot.  I'm sure this scenario has played out in many private companies. 

 

My belief (as I've said before) is that public corporations and services benefit from long-term, stable, well-trained employees who feel they are stakeholders.  Recipients and customers benefit through consistency of work quality.  

 

Although I was in the private sector (or self-employed) my whole working life, I still say I'm happy for my tax dollars to go to providing good pensions for people working in important public sector fields. 

These are the people who, once retired, will be able to buy homes, pay taxes, support charities, afford discretionary purchases of all kinds (providing jobs and income for others), and afford decent care for themselves later in life, lessening the burden on other taxpayers in the long run.  

 

In other words, public service pensions aren't the handout many may consider them to be.  People stay put for decades to earn them, often giving up more satisfying or lucrative job prospects.  

 

When we're being told that fewer and fewer Canadians are now able to save for retirement on their own, defined pensions at least allow those who are willing to stay in a job for 30 years the possibility of a decent life in retirement.  Almost nobody can live on CPP alone anymore.  And in the meantime the guaranteed pensions provide long-term consistency and stability in our more vital public sector work forces, the occasional strike notwithstanding.  

 

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