Serious mistake on ebay.ca implies people who speak French aren't Canadian

[canadiandave10]

I am shocked at the ebay.ca  language selection to toggle to change from English and French, and vice-versa.  That itself isn't a problem but if you take a closer look, eBay has placed a Canadian flag beside "English" and a Quebec flag beside "Francais".  This is incredibly offensive and I'm surprised that such a large company as eBay could not realize how large of a mistake this is.  The implications are rather serious, implying that people who speak French must be from Quebec (which is not true), and that only people who speak English are Canadian, based on the flags that eBay has used.  This makes eBay look really bad and makes the company seems as if that they do not understand what it means to be Canadian.

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

Ahhhh.........nothing wrong with the past. For one thing, less people with clinical depression. Our 'new' world has created a massive new affliction.

I remember the 'good old days'. You listed something, took whatever payment you preferred and if you had a problem with language you worked around it. Worked well.....at least for me, and over 4000 sales to many parts of the world. Items from 50 bucks to a few thousand. In all that time I had 3 problems. Not a bad average. Then, it changed. Someone said "lets make it better".    

[i*m-still-here]

I had assumed that all sites were given a flag , but I just checked and iit seems that this only applies to Canada.

So. some minimum wage employee was given the nuisance task of differentiating between the French and English sites and had to fit that task into an already busy day.

Is it any wonder, then,  that this individual assumed that flags would do the job quickly and efficiently?

It did in fact do the job very well.

Problem is, it never occurred to this individual that this is such a sensitive for some.

Who, other than Canadians who have witnessed this over the years, would know?

Judging from the results:  Not everyone!

[rose-dee]

I honestly can't believe that a "minimum wage employee was given the nuisance task" without any direction from anyone in a supervisory or management position.

The flags as they were only "did the job very well" unless you happened to self-identify as a Canadian who also spoke French, and not necessarily a Québecois separatist.  It "did the job very well" in fact if one were oblivious to the distinction.  I'm sure there were many unilingual anglophone Canadians who never gave it a second thought, let alone might think others could take offence.

This reminds me of an experience years ago when I lived in BC.  I attended the Abbotsford air show one summer.  It was the biggest show they had ever planned, and it was announced that there were well over 100,000 spectators present.  Brian Mulroney (in his early days as PM) came to open the show officially (the Fraser Valley was strongly Conservative at the time, so there was a lot of popular support for him in the crowd).  He opened with remarks in English to polite silence from the gathered multitudes.

He then began his comments in French, and a spontaneous booing and hissing of 100,000 people started up and lasted until he was finished.  All around me people were loudly and angrily voicing their disgust.  Try to imagine 100,000 people all booing and hissing -- it completely drowned out the P.A. system and Mulroney's voice.  I silently hung my head in shame and embarassment for my fellow Canadians, and not for any feeling of sympathy for Mulroney particularly.  I had thought better of Canada.  I wondered how many other bilingual or French-speaking citizens of Canada were in the crowd, who like me, were feeling utter shock by this display of disrespect.  I lived in BC for over 20 years, and sadly I encountered this attitude many, many times, which for me was completely unfathomable.

Dismissing and belittling these issues is tantamount to booing and hissing, which is why I now speak out, even if the insult seems minor to some others.

Whether it occurred to the particular individual who made the change at eBay that what he/she was doing might be insulting isn't relevant -- having had the issue brought to its attention, eBay should now apologize, on behalf of management.  The point really is that only Canadians would know, and this is a Canadian site, after all.

If I may quote Pierre from another post in an unrelated discussion:

"When you screw up you are expected to accept responsibility and some may appreciate your honesty."

Voilà -- that's about it in a nutshell. 

[art-in-the-making]

I honestly can't believe that a "minimum wage employee was given the nuisance task" without any direction from anyone in a supervisory or management position.

Yeah that goes without saying. I'd be quite amused if minimum wage employees got to mess around with the public look of the ebay site!

I agree with you also about the hissing and booing. I think it is going to emerge eventually that this type of behaviour is plain and simple bullying. These people fear and distrust someone who is different than themselves and can only cope with it by this aggressive bullying type response. Instead of trying to find common ground with people who are different.

Obviously you have them on the French side too. And Sun News (Quebecor) sell lots of papers to both factions. LOL

[i*m-still-here]

Maybe not minimum wage............ they're at Customer Service............ 

But you get the point I'm sure.

An employee working for whatever/hour (some moderate amount) was given a task and it was  completed.................

The task was to differentiate between the the English and French speaking Canadian sites........

Mission Accomplished.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Error was made & rectified. They made the situation right.

Canadian Flag was upside down during down the Toronto /Atlanta World Series.

Error was made & was rectified when the colour guard was invited to Toronto. They made the situation right.

CFL game in Las Vegas had a singer butcher the Canadian National Anthem. Error was made & was rectified when the singer sang the National Anthem in Edmonton. He made the situation right.

Nothing personal, a mistake was made & was then rectified.

Mistakes happen, that is why there are erasers on the end of pencils.

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

Did you know that with the popularity of Sudoku it caused a 700% increase in the sales of pencils!

[bb_cool_stuff]

Good one lol

I hope they weren't the golf pencils, the ones sans erasers.

When it comes to Sudoku & Crosswords, i need a lot of erasers.

[rose-dee]

Error was made & rectified. They made the situation right.

EBay quietly rectified the mistake, but they have yet to make the situation right.  Doing so would involve openly accepting responsibility by apologizing, either verbally or through taking steps to make up for the insult in some way, as in your other examples.

Although I can't possibly believe that eBay site alteration was just left completely to a lackey to decide on, it would be very interesting indeed if one of the Pinks were to say that, well, it isn't management's fault, one of our lowly employees was entirely responsible.  Throwing an employee under the bus wouldn't say much about management accountability, would it? 

Perhaps we could ask Bryan of the "Pinks" to sing our national anthem en français -- do you think he could do it? 

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

[pierrelebel]

" but they have yet to make the situation right."

???

The mistake has been corrected promptly.  What else do you need?  Blood?  Someone's head?

Why is it so darn important to find someone at fault?

" it isn't management's fault,"

It does not matter, does it?  The problem has been corrected.

How do you handle mistakes made by your service providers?  Ask for dismissal of the guilty employee?

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eobuu-IexvI

[rose-dee]

No, Pierre, a simply stated and frank apology somewhere public on eBay.ca (maybe at the head of a Wed. Discussion Forum would be appropriate spot) acknowledging that this had effects beyond a simple "mistake" is all I expect.   

It really doesn't matter who was ultimately at fault, it's of no consequence.  What is of consequence is whether someone has the integrity to stand up on behalf of eBay.ca and say we apologize, not minimize it as a "wrinkle". 

As I said, that word in itself told me that no one had recognized or considered the broader implications at all -- and that's what the apology should be for. 

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

Everyone views things in different ways. This situation for some is no big deal (myself included) .......however....... for others it is, and their views and feelings should be recognized as well.

[pierrelebel]

God grant me the serenity to accept

the things I cannot change,

courage to change the things I can,

and wisdom to know the difference.

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

God grant me the serenity to accept

all those around me,

courage to deal with those who are difficult,

and wisdom to know where to bury the bodies.

~ Helen Waite

[i*m-still-here]

I was curious to see what this French site is all about..............

There is a discussion group like this one in French, but without a single post.

Rose-dee .......... (and others committed to that site's integrity).......... I noticed that your listings are unilingual.

All things considered, why haven't you made the effort to post your items in French for those who would rather peruse items in the French language?

EBay has made the effort to make that available to you, and it seems of paramount importance and significance to you that it be designated correctly.

So why aren't you making use of it?

It's there for folks like you .............. so what's up with neglecting it?

It needs French posts to thrive.

The flag used to signify that it's French (and in fact the site itself) is of little significance unless sellers post listings in French, and I would think that you'd be the first to do so.

[rose-dee]

"All things considered, why haven't you made the effort to post your items in French for those who would rather peruse items in the French language?"

Sorry, but your argument (actually more of a rather sarcastic jab) doesn't hold any water for two reasons:  

#1)  A simple business reason -- the market isn't there.  90% of my sales are to the U.S. and Europe, and when I have a buyer who speaks French, whether in Canada or elsewhere, I correspond with them in that language, or translate the listing information for them.  Although I sell quite often to Germany, I don't list on eBay.de for the same reason -- insufficient sales to justify the time spent in translating all the listings.  And if you've ever done any translation, you will know that it is a very time-consuming task. 

Besides, it's been my experience that a large proportion of people in Canada who speak French as a mother tongue also speak/read some English.  It hasn't been my experience that the opposite is true, i.e. anglophones, especially in some areas of the country, tend to be far less bilingual.  So if French-speaking buyers see my items and ask a question or make a purchase, I most definitely correspond in French. 

And this is the whole point of my objection: the "flags" implied that you were either English Canadian or French Québecois, period.  Some of us were offended that eBay thought Canadian = English only.  As I said, this was just pure ignorance on the part of somebody at eBay.

#2)  If eBay wants to offer a French-speaking market, that is their choice.  The point is that if they are going to purport to offer two sites, they need to do it properly and with some sensitivity. 

[i*m-still-here]

Rose,  There was NO sarcastic intent to my post whatsoever.

NONE.

There is none in this post either.

Just sincere observations and questions.

Ebay has gone to a lot of effort to cater to the French speaking Canadians when they created (by your own admission) this unnecessary French site.

They made an error when they tried to designate it properly a few weeks ago.

However, that should be readily forgiven in light of the fact that they took the time to create a separate French site in the first place.

They did that because they perceived (and correctly so) that it's important to people like you.

Shouldn't you support it by posting in French even it takes a little more effort?

At the very least, be forgiving when they make an error.

They've gone out of their way to be politically correct.

Give them credit for that and forgive what you now perceive as a grave insult.

They deserve it.

[rose-dee]

I doubt there's anything politically correct about eBay providing a French language site.  They perceived there was a market.  They wouldn't do it if there wasn't money to be made.  They aren't a government department or a charity, so they have no obligation to cater to me or anyone else who happens to be bilingual.

I can forgive the "grave insult" (by the way, I don't consider it quite as serious as that).  What I can't forgive is the complete silence after quietly fixing it, hoping no one would notice.  I only expect some open corporate recognition of the lack of sensitivity.