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slitty12 · ‎03-25-2014

Hello!

I have a question about paying for packet/parcel services with stamps. More specifically, about taxes when doing so.

I am based in British Columbia, which is a GST province when it comes to mail. So, when I "Find a Rate" on Canada Post's website, standard Lettermail under 30 grams comes up as $0.66. Since taxes are charged on when buying stamps, I have always just affixed $0.63 in face value when mailing a letter. Hopefully what I have been doing is correct.

But what do I do when it comes to parcel services like Light Packet USA/Regular Parcel/Expatiated Parcel/etc that include tax in the rate total? Do I affix postage equivalent in face value to the "Find a Rate" total, or do I "remove" the tax when figuring out how much in stamps my package needs?

ricarmic · ‎03-29-2014

Oooo Pierre what a rule breaker you are!

pierrelebel · ‎03-29-2014

"rule breaker you are"

Where does it say stamps cannot be overlapping one another as long as the denomination shows clearly?

pierrelebel · ‎03-29-2014

According to Canada Post website, the only overlap which is prohibited concerns postage meters:

Meter impressions for additional postage - If the original postage value on a mail item has been printed incorrectly, an additional postage (correction) meter impression, as illustrated in Figure 6, must be printed and affixed under or beside the original impression. The word “CORRECTION” may appear to the left of the two-dimensional barcode of postage meter impression. Any additional impression must not overlap the original postage meter impression or cover any address information.

ricarmic · ‎03-29-2014

Hi Pierre, well there you go, I understood from a postmaster years ago that rule was somewhere in the postal manual...either it is gone now, or it is yet another "local" version/interpretation of the overall manual.... so I guess I have to rescind my "rule breaker" tease..... 😉

femmefan1946 · ‎03-30-2014

I've seen both contemporary and vintage postal documents with sheets of stamps used to pay the postage. The sheets are at least partly glued onto the document (like an Expresspost label) and then cancelled by the counter clerk.

The late Richard Toop had some hilarious documents of that kind in some of his exhibits.

pierrelebel · ‎03-30-2014

The late and legendary Kasimir Bileski (Winnipeg, MB) used to send envelopes with overlapping stamps back in the 1970's and 1980's. He would ask customers to return the used, cancelled stamps for full return of the postage value.

He would then soak the used cancelled stamps to build collections of Canadian used stamps

slitty12 · ‎04-03-2014

Thanks for your help everyone, it is much appreciated! And that's one awesome envelope you've got there Pierre, so thank you for sharing that as well! =D

As for the matter at hand, it annoys me that Customer Service readily supplies information that they are unable to back up with any sensible references to Canada Post regulations. The definition of a postage stamp from Canada Postal Guide (which both Pierre and I posted/linked) that they provided in response doesn't explicitly address the use of postage stamps for Canada Post parcel services, yet alone restrict it. In fact, it states to "refer to the appropriate service for the list of acceptable proofs of payment." Section 5.1 (Proofs of payment) of the Consumer Manuals for ALL these services lists postage stamps as a valid proof of payment. It does stipulate that there may be restrictions, but nowhere are these restrictions addressed.

Pointing this out to Customer Service only got me a vague: "there are different kinds of stamps". This, to me, doesn't seem like a sufficient explanation. So I've sent emails to The Ombudsman's Office at Canada Post and Regulatory Affairs in an attempt to get clarification. I may or may not receive a response, but I will make sure to keep you up to date if I do.

slitty12 · ‎04-03-2014

By the way, in the search for an answer for my original question, I came across something that may be of interest to everyone involved with stamps. I don't know whether stamp dealers have generally obtained permission from Canada Post to sell stamps - but if they haven't, and are selling discounted postage explicitly for mailing purposes - they are committing a crime. From the Canada Post Corporation Act:

57. Every person commits an offence who, without the consent of the Corporation, engages in the business of selling postage stamps to the public for the purpose of payment of postage.

1980-81-82-83, c. 54, s. 51.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-10/FullText.html

toff3 · ‎04-03-2014

So I've sent emails to The Ombudsman's Office at Canada Post and Regulatory Affairs in an attempt to get clarification. I may or may not receive a response, but I will make sure to keep you up to date if I do

Good for you, Slitty. I sent (by snail mail - it can't be deleted as easily as an email) a letter of complaint to Jacques Côté, head of the mails at Canada Post, with a copy to Steve Edmondson, VP Customer Relations at CP, enclosing the relevant pages from the thread you started.

I wouldn't be surprised if neither of us receives a response that's in any way meaningful but that doesn't mean one shouldn't take the time to complain. Canada Post top management has a mantra they like to trot out whenever it's convenient to them. It reads as follows:

I appreciate your continued interest in Canada Post. We are proud of our company, we are aware of our flaws, and like every other organization, we are actively pursuing a continuous improvement of all we are and do. Issues you bring to our attention in future letters will certainly be reviewed, but we will not consider that a response is required unless the issue directly affects the handling of your personal mail.

Tom

P.S. Sorry if you're feeling slightly ill at the moment.

pierrelebel · ‎04-03-2014

"It does stipulate that there may be restrictions, but nowhere are these restrictions addressed.:"

While Canadian postage stamps can be used for prepayment of ALL postal services initiated within Canada, there are products and services offered by Canada Post for which postage stamps cannot be used for payment.

For example, you cannot use postage stamps to purchase a postal money order from Canada Post. Also, you cannot use postage stamps to pay for the purchase of shipping supplies (boxes, etc...).

On your question/comment regarding the legality of anyone reselling postage stamps in Canada, I suggest you address it to the director of the Canadian Stamp Dealers Association. You can reach him by email at director@csdaonline.com . I could give you a detailed answer but I will let the CSDA deal with it since you specifically referred to stamp dealers.

It reminds me of a situation in Belleville about eighteen years ago. I was running weekly advertisements in the local newspaper for postage stamps available below face value. One local Canada Post franchisee (a drugstore) complained to Canada Post that I should not be not allowed to sell within his "restricted area". A supervisor at Canada Post called me and explained they had sold exclusive territorial rights to the franchisee and as such I should refrain from offering to sell postage stamps within "his territory". I suggested to the CP supervisor that it takes me to court. From my perspective, CP had no right to sell exclusive territorial rights since they did not own them and were the worst offender since the CP Philatelic Counter in Nova Scotia was selling tens of millions of stamps every year to collectors in every region of the country putting them in direct competition with their franchisees. That was the end of that! Never heard from them again.

rose-dee · ‎04-03-2014

I must have been living on a different planet all these years -- I had no idea that overlapping stamps (as in your photo) was done, let alone legal. Very interesting! Not that I would normally need to put more than 5 or 6 stamps on an envelope. Maybe I'll dig out some of those old 1 cent stamps I have in the back of my desk and try this.

On the matter of the definition of a "stamp", brought up by a couple of posters, what I still find interesting (and which hasn't really been dealt with in this thread) is the term "certain mail items". I'm copying the definition here for reference, as noted in an earlier post above:

2.1

Postage Stamp

A postage stamp is a stamp or impression approved by Canada Post that indicates postage payment, which can be used on certain mail items. It may be printed directly on applicable mail items (as with pre-stamped envelopes) or on gummed or self-adhesive paper which is affixed to applicable mail items.

I'm trying to imagine what mail items there could possibly be that could not be sent with postage stamps. Pierre, you mentioned postal supplies, but I was thinking perhaps one of the bulk classes of mail, flyers, etc.

Not that it's a burning issue for me, but this phrase, standing on its own without any qualification, seems bizarre. Does anyone know what the mail items are that cannot be sent with stamps?

femmefan1946 · ‎04-03-2014

I don't think there are any. I think it is just a PYA phrase that allows CPO the ability to change the rules if they feel the need to.

And by CPO, I mean the corporation, not the counter clerk.

One possible example, is that when I send a Priority Post envelope, I will cover my receipt on the multipage form with stamps to pay for the service. The clerks (who know me now) sigh and cancel the stamps. I keep that piece and no stamps show on the actual envelope or parcel.

pierrelebel · ‎04-03-2014

femmefan - since your husband was president of the CSDA a few years ago may be he could answer the question raised in post 28 concerning the legality of selling postage stamps by stamp dealers.

maggiebvintage2010 · ‎04-03-2014

Haven't those stamps already been sold by Canada Post or its authorized agent? How else did they get into the market? It doesn't say anything about re-selling stamps for which Canada Post has already received the face value.