Tracking #s and Chargebacks

[lovebuguniverse]

I have never had a chargeback yet but I want to know how to protect myself.

I use small packets, light packets and (in Canada) lettermail to ship.

The tracking numbers for the small packets, light packets do not show any info when I print the label through paypal...

It always says "an order has been electronically submitted" which has gotten me a few unhappy buyers wondering where their package is a few days after I mail it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, im not sure how this works.

[westernstargifts]

Hi Justine,

Congrats on reaching power seller status!!

I use light and small packet almost exclusively and they do not have tracking available. Within Canada, I use either lettermail or Expedited for larger items. Expedited does provide a tracking number and is the only shipping method I use that offers PayPal protection of any kind. From what I understand, it still does not protect you if someone does a chargeback on their credit card.

To date I have never had a chargeback and have been selling since December 2006. It is not a big worry for me because I do not sell expensive items.

In the beginning I was too quick to send out a replacement item. Now if I have a buyer wondering why their package has not arrived, I simply tell them that it is not uncommon for it to take up to 2 weeks to arrive (in the U.S.) or longer if held up in U.S. customs. In most cases the package arrives within a day or two after I reply.

If it has not arrived after 3 weeks I reship and notify the buyer that I have done so. Unless the buyer is honest and tells you, you never know for sure if the first package has arrived. I have had some that never let me know and others that paid for the second item because they wanted to keep it too. Sometimes I just tell them to keep it with my compliments. It often makes them repeat customers.

Judy

[3jcc14]

There's no econimical way to ship within Canada with a "Delivery Confirmation" or "Tracking Number" (by economical I mean between $2.00 to $5.00). For the items that you sell, it would likely not be worth your while to use the prepaid expresspost envelopes as those would have a tracking number on them and you have the option of making a signature required on them too. The tracking numbers in Paypal are deceptive...they are not really Canada Post Tracking Numbers but some internal thing. I don't use the Paypal shipping options.

[lovebuguniverse]

Thank you both for the replies!

What is so annoying about the paypal tracking #s is that the buyer gets an email with the link to Canada Post's website and they are constantly checking even though no information is ever updated.

I always thought it was really being tracked. I guess if it's a very large order I will pay for the signature and the rest I will have to eat if I get a chargeback!

The canada post flat rate boxes are great so I've been encouraging those for larger orders.

[duujogl]

Lovebuguniverse, the number with an Expedited Parcel is NOT a tracking number - it's only a delivery confirmation number and PayPal won't accept it as any kind of proof in the case of a dispute - even if you get the signature required option. The ONLY numbers available from Canada Post that PayPal will accept are Express Post or Registered Mail (or higher levels of courier delivery). As a general rule Canadian sellers are SOL for paypal seller protection if we use Canada Post!

[westernstargifts]

Lovebuguniverse, the number with an Expedited Parcel is NOT a tracking number - it's only a delivery confirmation number and PayPal won't accept it as any kind of proof in the case of a dispute

More than one person I have dealt with at the Post Office called it a tracking number. It was quite useful not too long ago when a buyer from Alberta claimed that she hadn't received her parcel. After I gave her the Expedited tracking number she had to admit that her local Post Office had received it and they were "looking for it". Had I not had a tracking number I would have been sol because I believe she meant to claim non-receipt. Maybe she could have because I did not get a signature.

[snoopwiz]

PayPal won't accept it as any kind of proof in the case of a dispute - even if you get the signature required option. The ONLY numbers available from Canada Post that PayPal will accept are Express Post or Registered Mail (or higher levels of courier delivery). As a general rule Canadian sellers are SOL for paypal seller protection if we use Canada Post!

Wow. Although I rarely will use C.P, I couldn't help but shake my head when reading the above. Did you find this out the hard way (lost a claim) or just an assumption? You may want to email Miriam@ebay.com direct. I would like to hear eBay Canada's response to this nonsense.

[faerywishes]

PayPal won't accept it as any kind of proof in the case of a dispute - even if you get the signature required option. The ONLY numbers available from Canada Post that PayPal will accept are Express Post or Registered Mail (or higher levels of courier delivery). As a general rule Canadian sellers are SOL for paypal seller protection if we use Canada Post!

I have had a dispute opened on me and I shipped by Light Packet. I provided the tracking number (I believe it to be a tracking # as does my PO). The case was closed found in my favor.

[faerywishes]

The tracking numbers in Paypal are deceptive...they are not really Canada Post Tracking Numbers but some internal thing. I don't use the Paypal shipping options.

The numbers in Paypal are actually transaction #'s not tracking #'s.

For Light Packet I type the number off of the label and include it in my notes on the "View Sales Record".

[duujogl]

"Wow. Although I rarely will use C.P, I couldn't help but shake my head when reading the above. Did you find this out the hard way (lost a claim) or just an assumption? You may want to email Miriam@ebay.com direct. I would like to hear eBay Canada's response to this nonsense. "

No - thank goodness - not the hard way! I called it a tracking number one day when talking to a postmaster friend and he set me straight. If PayPal accepted it as a tracking number in a dispute, then for heaven's sake let's not tell them any different!!!

[ameroindustries]

I would not Worry about it The Chances of a Charge Back ARE NEXT TO NILL . I have had 3 chargebacks thats after doing 10000+ transactions and turning around 1 million thur pp in the last year .

Who cares about tracking i send 1000's of items a month without tracking (regular letter mail). Right now i have 1 Claim non Recieved and i got tracking on that one if i have to settle a few non recived or lost er a person just flat out lying i dont care well worth it for what i save on sending letter mail instead of wasting my money on tracking / insurance .

[faerywishes]

Obviously different people working at Post Offices & Paypal understand the policies differently. As many of us seem to get different answers from some of them.

I'm wondering why we can put that number from Light packet into the space for tracking on the website and it provides answers as well as letting us know when packages arrive?

I am wondering why the Paypal rep agreed I had sent the item and closed the case in my favor.

From the info in here from others I am wondering now what may happen the next time I have a dispute maybe that person won't agree I sent it.

[ampurtle]

1) If one is required to provide proof of delivery by PayPal, that proof must consist of a verifyable service. For Canada Post that is Expresspost with tracking, registered mail or courier services. Proof of delivery is required, not just proof that it was sent. (your mileage may vary)

2) Reference numbers are not tracking numbers. If you examine your light packet label you will find a 16 digit Canada Post reference number. This reference number is not a tracking number and does not represent a gaurantee that the item was delivered, but rather an internal tracking reference so Canada Post can monitor packages moving through the system.

Light packet service is treated as lettermail, with the added bonus of a reference number which is why light packets are by default defined as airmail on the label. Should a light packet go missing, the reference number is what Canada Post follows to figure out where the package was last touched by human hands, when you file a claim. When the CP tracking system says a light packet has been delivered, it only guarantees that the item reached the final leg of the journey and it was send to the posties pile of items to be delivered. It can still fall of the truck so to speak and never reach the buyer, but the post office then knows who they need to keep an eye on.

3) As for Paypal disputes, if you need to enter tracking in a dispute resolution, the software doesn't care what you enter, it will still spit out an email acknowledging compliance and move on to the next stage, even if you provide the tracking number "Your mother wears army boots".
If the dispute ends up being escalated, then a human looks at everything and makes a determination as to who is at fault and who is in compliance. At that point, what your mother wears doesn't concern the Palpay arbitrater and probably will take a dim view, possibly finding in the other person's favour on the spot so he/she can move on to the next dispute. There are a LOT of them, and the frequency appears to be growing. The few bodies that do this work can't be wasting time.

4) As for which way to go, Paypal shipping or CP direct, I prefer to use the Paypal mechanism for USA Light Packet and all parcels because most of the data entry is done for you (although after 10 years, they still can't get it right more than 80% of the time). If you have your own checkout software, then that's obviously the way to go. For domestic flat items I do lettermail and get out the moose, polar bears, lunes and start licking.

5) Subtle note on Paypal shipping... if you are shipping via CP, they bill and get paid in Canadian dollars. If you are selling in both CA and US dollars, try and make sure you keep enough cash in the CAD account to cover all your shipping otherwise Paypal takes you to the cleaners on the currency conversions.

PS. For lost lettermail in Canada, submit a claim on the CP website, that way they will check the lost and found... you might get lucky...

[coxengines]

For "light" and "small" packets there is no tracking, no unique identifier and no way on knowing if the package has moved beyond the "An order has been electronically submitted " stage.

The reference # on those packets is for CP accounting purposes, as far as I understand.

As far as Canada Post is concerned, one could have only issued a label and not shipped anything or the package could have been delivered - no difference!

Mississauga is likely the location of an office (or a server) of theirs and does not mean that your package has arrived there.

If we ship a package from here to Seattle (or Tokyo for that matter) it goes through Vancouver and would not traverse through Mississauga in any event.

The "electronically submitted" part remains in the system until purged (3 months?) and there will be no further entry beyond that.

If the package is lost in transit, CP would not know if you actually shipped it in the first place or if it fell off a truck somewhere.

If the label was created via PP, there is absolutely no unique identifier visible on the label (except the recipient's address, of course, and I can't see CP imaging that)

Hope this helps
Bernie

[terter1997]

It sucks to ship from Canada, I have more lost items than I care to mention. My guarantee is 100% and that includes shipping, however, during these past two months, for whatever reason, nothing is arriving overseas. And as mentioned in many statements, the tracking# is not really a tracking#. The cost to ship Priority or UPS is just too high, and than you're rated, with HIGH shipping costs, it's just not visable for the average buyer. Bottom line, no more shipping overseas, can't afford it. I'm in Ontario, costs to ship withing your own country (east or west cost), are 3 times the cost, as shipping to the States. - Okay, answering several complaints tonight, thanks for listening!

[cottonwoodindustries]

terter1997:
How long do you give your overseas parcels, I have sent 100's of parcels overseas and all mailed from CANADA. I tell my customers depending on their customs, that their parcel could take up to 2 months by AIR, but to date I have only had 1 item that never made it to its destination. I keep in close contact with ALL MY OVERSEAS customers. They all appreciate it and when their items arrive they are thrilled. 75% of my sales are overseas. And right now I am working on putting an order together that is going to turkey. SO don't give up, change the way you do business, TIME is the killer but it can be your friend if you let it. PS: many of those overseas customers are repeat buyers.
Lore

[ampurtle]

1) All mail originating or terminating in the greater Toronto area is routed thought the Gateway facility in Mississauga.
For the Niagara Penninsual and South Central Ontario, Gateway is bypassed and all items are routed via the processing station in Hamiton.
2) The 16 digit reference number on a small packet is a unique identifier but not a public tracking number (see previous explanation)
3) All "Light Packet USA" labels created electronicly have a 16 digit reference number whether you use Paypal or CP website, because...... they all access the same system, that being Canada Post's site and the Pitney Bowes front end. Paypal simply presents you with their user interface instead of transferring the customer to the CP engine.
4) I have been importing and exporting around this planet since 1972, I've never lost a package until a recent series of unverifyable high value eBay items. One was an obvious scam with the buyer using 2 addresses, the other is most likely out right theft by the buyer and the third has yet to be determined and may be an actual lost package unless CP tracks it down with that 16 digit reference number, which they usually do 🙂

[ampurtle]

Canada Post's stated delivery times are somewhat optimistic when it comes to surface service. Air service is usually within the time frame stated in my experience.
Parcels to the US are the worst, US Customs will delay up to 4 days and as much as 6 weeks, and your DSRs go in the toilet.
You are correct that Canada Post is a problem because they do not have any domestic service in between lettermail and parcel while international and US service has small and light packets.

To protect yourself, always make sure the service you use can cover the value of the item. If you use lettermail, any loss is yours.

If you are losing packages, you are doing something wrong... figure out what it is... Your postal station may have some insight.

The USA has 10 times the population as Canada, USPS is shipping 10 times the pieces that CP does plus another 2-3% for overseas military bases. The effeciencies of scale are just a basic fact of life. But CP does listen to it's customers, they gave us an eBay only flat rate option and although the box is a bit small compared to the USPS ones, it's still a big savings for small heavy items and US customs doesn't seem to be hanging on to then for more than a few days currently.

I don't pay for shiping, the buyer does and I provide a t least 2 options for the buyer to choose from when the listings are created. If a buyer wants to pay, that's their decision. A smart seller will understand the impact of the shipping cost and react appropriately. Just ask yourself if you would buy the item given the shipping cost. If the answer is no, then a good way to make things more palettable is to sell a bundle of items so that that shipping cost is a smaller percentage of the value of the package. I can't sell my 11oz coffee cups because they weigh 500g, so I bundle then with other items...

[ampurtle]

I still maintain my lost packages are directly related to the feedback changes and buyers being able to claim anything as a result, without penalty. I am not alone in this assumption either in Canada or in the USA, it's happening accross the board in N.A.