Undeserved defect

[pinetreecottage]

A while back, I got a defect for cancelling a bid. The bidder showed from Thailand. As I only ship to North America, I cancelled the bid, stating the bidder was in a location I don't ship to. I just discovered, the bidder changed both her user name and location ( now CA) just when I cancelled the bid (2 mths ago), so now it looks like I cancelled for no reason, thereby earning me this defect.  As there were no other bidders, this became a transaction.  I have tried in vain to explain this to a CS person, but to no avail.  This is just to let you all know, there is no appeal for these defects, however ridiculous.  It seems they are set in cement. 

I'm not sure what advantage all these barriers, we sellers face, have to ebay.  Since we sellers drive their money machine, they should worship the ground we walk on. 

Oh well, so long as China keeps cranking out all the knockoffs and junk, ebay will survive.

[pjcdn2005]

Had the auction ended when you cancelled the bid?

Did you cancel the bid and then end the auction early?

When you go to your dashboard and get a transaction defect report does it specify that you got a defect for that particular transaction? I'm trying to find an explanation as it just doesn't make sense that you would get a defect for cancelling a bid during an ongoing auction.

[pocomocomputing]

A bid in an auction shows the eBay id registered address. But a bidder can bid based on their primary shipping address. Any eBayer can have multiple Shipping Addresses and set any one to be the primary while they are bidding on auctions. So a bidder can bid properly with a different shipping address that is in a country that is in your countries allowed to bid.

It is possible your bidder had a freight forwarder address or a friend or relative in the country that would reship the item to them. Some international buyers do this. Nothing wrong to do this. Just confusing to a seller.

So you may be at fault for cancelling this bidder as they may not be doing anything wrong.

It is an eBay problem.

Now this issue only happens on auctions where you can see your potential buyer. If the same person had bought with a fixed price buy it now listing, it would have gone through with no issues and you would have shipped to the address that was allowed.

[pjcdn2005]

But if the auction hadn't ended, there should no be defect regardless of the reason for cancelling a bid.

Perhaps the OP is using the term bid even though the auction was over?

[mr.elmwood]

---

@pocomocomputing wrote:

A bid in an auction shows the eBay id registered address. But a bidder can bid based on their primary shipping address. Any eBayer can have multiple Shipping Addresses and set any one to be the primary while they are bidding on auctions. So a bidder can bid properly with a different shipping address that is in a country that is in your countries allowed to bid.

It is possible your bidder had a freight forwarder address or a friend or relative in the country that would reship the item to them. Some international buyers do this. Nothing wrong to do this. Just confusing to a seller.

So you may be at fault for cancelling this bidder as they may not be doing anything wrong.

It is an eBay problem.

Now this issue only happens on auctions where you can see your potential buyer. If the same person had bought with a fixed price buy it now listing, it would have gone through with no issues and you would have shipped to the address that was allowed.

---

I have many buyers all over the Caribbean. Their addresses are in Miami. When they buy, the packet is sent to Miami. I can look on the feedback page to see where they actually live. This is very common.

If you had your blocks set, the bidder could not have placed their bid from a country that is blocked. That leaves them bidding from their north american address.

You cancelled based on the country their eBay page says they live (lived?) in. That has nothing to do with the mailing address they were using.

eBay sees that you cancelled a legitimate bid. This is why they are not listening to you.

[pjcdn2005]

Even IF the auction was over and the sale was cancelled and IF the bidder had a primary address to a country that the seller shipped to...I'm surprised that ebay would give a defect if the reason given was problem with an address because ebay has no way of knowing what the exact problem was. There are more 'problem with address' explanations than a blocked country.

[pjcdn2005]

According to the following thread, the auction wasn't over.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Cancelled-Order-that-NEVER-happened/m-p/316454#M50292

[pinetreecottage]

As soon as I got the bid, I looked to see where the bidder was located.  It was Thailand.  I then cancelled the bid for the reason stated.  As there were no other bids, the auction ended, without the item selling. I didn't think any more about it, until I realized I was given a defect.  I looked up the listing, and saw the bidder now had changed her user name and location.  This happened in Sept.  Her history shows both user names.  My listing clearly shows, I ship only to Canada and the US.  I feel I should have been allowed to cancel her bid, as the auction was still active.  Apparently that is not the case, from what I can get out of CS. 

The item # is 281789937549.  The bidder user name is not the one she used when bidding.  I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention it here, so I won't.

[pjcdn2005]

You're can block shipping locations..not where people are registered so as poco said, the buyer may have had a U.S. shipping address.

Another block that you can put in if you don't have it already is in Account - Buyers Preferences.  You can check off to block buyers that have a primary address in a location that you don't ship to.   If something like this happens in the future, it doesn't hurt to ask the bidder if they have a U.S. or Canadian address.

Regardless of whether or not the buyer wanted the item sent to Thailand... it looks like the bid was cancelled during the auction and someone else won the item.  Even if someone else hadn't won, you shouldn't have a defect for a cancelled 'bid'.

You didn't answer if your transaction defect report shows that exact transaction as giving you a cancelled transaction defect.

[mr.elmwood]

---

@pinetreecottage wrote:

As soon as I got the bid, I looked to see where the bidder was located.  It was Thailand.  I then cancelled the bid for the reason stated.  As there were no other bids, the auction ended, without the item selling. I didn't think any more about it, until I realized I was given a defect.  I looked up the listing, and saw the bidder now had changed her user name and location.  This happened in Sept.  Her history shows both user names.  My listing clearly shows, I ship only to Canada and the US.  I feel I should have been allowed to cancel her bid, as the auction was still active.  Apparently that is not the case, from what I can get out of CS. 

The item # is 281789937549.  The bidder user name is not the one she used when bidding.  I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention it here, so I won't.

---

You don't know that it wasn't going to the US or Canada.

Where the bidder is located has nothing, nada, zero to do with where it is being shipped to.

[pinetreecottage]

Nobody won. This item remained unsold. The bidder name you see, is the new name she used.  I don't know why it still shows as sold.  I still have the cup.  After I cancelled her bid, the listing carried on.  There were no other bidders.  Now it showed with the new name, as if she won the cup.????

[pocomocomputing]

---

@pocomocomputing wrote:

A bid in an auction shows the eBay id registered address. But a bidder can bid based on their primary shipping address. Any eBayer can have multiple Shipping Addresses and set any one to be the primary while they are bidding on auctions. So a bidder can bid properly with a different shipping address that is in a country that is in your countries allowed to bid.

It is possible your bidder had a freight forwarder address or a friend or relative in the country that would reship the item to them. Some international buyers do this. Nothing wrong to do this. Just confusing to a seller.

So you may be at fault for cancelling this bidder as they may not be doing anything wrong.

It is an eBay problem.

Now this issue only happens on auctions where you can see your potential buyer. If the same person had bought with a fixed price buy it now listing, it would have gone through with no issues and you would have shipped to the address that was allowed.

---

I brought up this issue of bidder registered address showing and potential using another eBay shipping address in the eBay Weekly Session today. I do not think Raphael understood the problem from the answer he gave. I think it is an ebay problem to show the registered address, it should somehow show the buyer shipping address country to prevent this issue. Or at least show a disclaimer that the buyer may be using an allowed country in a shipping address.

I just find that this is such an old problem that should be addressed. I see it on the ebay.com forums too. With the time and money spent making a new seller Hub and a new defect system, why not put the time and effort in fixing old issues like this.

I wish ebay would allocate a budget to fix old issues that have been around for ages. Sort of like a contingency fund in a company for unforeseen problems and issues. Or like some money you set aside as "mad" money to buy anything you want.

As I mentioned, this issue comes up every month or two in one form or another.

[dmil8030]

Hello 'pinetreecottage',

Just to clarify (sorry, I'm a bit thick and groggy this morning), are you saying the 00(826)  bid you cancelled is the same 

person as the 1n(2) bidder who sniped it at the last minute?

Same person's name and same mailing address?  But using a second alternate ID to snipe the item, - is that right?

The listing ended at 07-Sep-15 21:44:10.  

I look at that listing and it really looks to me like the 1n sniped it at 07-Sep-15 21:39:18, - with less than 5 minutes to go 

on the auction.  Not a super sneaky snipe (heh) but it appears to me that she won the auction.  Same person or no, 

bidder 1n won the cup.

If you therefore still have the item, it would seem as if this is only because you chose not to send it.  Did you cancel 

this transaction specifically?  You would have paid fees on it if you didn't.  

I will assume the buyer did not endeavour to pay, -- or did she?  Did you refund a payment? 

Or did the whole thing go ignored on both sides?

I'm confused.  What am I missing?

[pjcdn2005]

---

@dmil8030 wrote:

Hello 'pinetreecottage',

Just to clarify (sorry, I'm a bit thick and groggy this morning), are you saying the 00(826)  bid you cancelled is the same 

person as the 1n(2) bidder who sniped it at the last minute?

Same person's name and same mailing address?  But using a second alternate ID to snipe the item, - is that right?

The listing ended at 07-Sep-15 21:44:10.  

I look at that listing and it really looks to me like the 1n sniped it at 07-Sep-15 21:39:18, - with less than 5 minutes to go 

on the auction.  Not a super sneaky snipe (heh) but it appears to me that she won the auction.  Same person or no, 

bidder 1n won the cup.

If you therefore still have the item, it would seem as if this is only because you chose not to send it.  Did you cancel 

this transaction specifically?  You would have paid fees on it if you didn't.  

I will assume the buyer did not endeavour to pay, -- or did she?  Did you refund a payment? 

Or did the whole thing go ignored on both sides?

I'm confused.  What am I missing?

---

I'm confused too.  There was a bid cancelled earlier in the day and then a bid was made by another ID a few minutes before the end of the auction. The OP didn't mention earlier that the buyer bid again but if that is the case, it doesn't look as if the last bid was cancelled before the end of the auction. I don't even remember if a bid can be cancelled less than 5 minutes before the auction ends.

Even if the second ID was the same person, once the auction was over the OP would have been able to see the address that the item was going to but perhaps they didn't look.   If that's the case, I can understand why the defect stands.

So assuming that the buyer was the same buyer as the earlier canceled bid......I don't know if the seller told the buyer at the time why the earlier bid was cancelled but if they had, the buyer might have then explained that they were having the item shipped somewhere else and the problem might never have happened. It would have been a good idea for the buyer to contact the seller before they bid at all but either way, the problem may be a lack of communication on both ends.

[sylviebee]

---

@pinetreecottage wrote:

Nobody won. This item remained unsold. The bidder name you see, is the new name she used.  I don't know why it still shows as sold.  I still have the cup.  After I cancelled her bid, the listing carried on.  There were no other bidders.  Now it showed with the new name, as if she won the cup.????

---

Since the winner has a different name than the one whose bid you cancelled,  why do you think that the two bidders are the same person with a different ids?

is it possible that you missed the second bid and just failed to ship the cup out and that the defect is a result of that oversight?

[dmil8030]

Hello 'pjcdn',

<< ...a bid was made by another ID a few minutes before the end of the auction. ... it doesn't look as if the last bid

was cancelled before the end of the auction.>>

That's it exactly, I think.  Looking at that listing, I see 1n(2) as the winner of the item.  When 'pinetreecottage' 

says she first cancelled the initial bidder from Thailand because she does not ship there, but then at the last 

minute the second ID sneaks up and bids:

"the bidder changed both her user name and location ( now CA) just when I cancelled the bid (2 mths ago),

so now it looks like I cancelled for no reason, thereby earning me this defect".

That sounds to me like the seller may have tried to quickly cancel the snipe before the end of the auction but did not

succeed in time. (?)  

Since no human added the defect, if a bidder with an acceptable address - CA - bids and wins, but then the 

seller cancels what has become a sale and no longer merely a bid, - the ebay machine would interpret that as a 

defect, likely because the new address is indeed one to which the sell claims to ship.

As per the cancellation info page, "If you cancel a transaction, it may be considered a defect and count against

your seller performance."

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/cancel-transaction-process.html

So I suspect that it was a cancellation on what appears to the ebay computer to be an admissible address 

that caused the problem.

Does that make sense?  

<< It would have been a good idea for the buyer to contact the seller before they bid at all >>

Absolutely!  And if it's the same person and she just re-bids at the end without any contact?   Well, courageous 

to say the least, - after she'd already been 'un-bid' the first time.  Whatever happened to 'no means no'?

But as you say, lack of communication. . . .

Well, that's how I see it, anyway.