eBay

winepress780 · ‎03-26-2016

Effective Mar 10, 2016 Americans can now import $800 U.S. duty and tax free while Canadians are saddled with a puny $20 CDN limit. Way to go Canada! It is a better time now for Canadian sellers selling bigger ticket items to Americas. As for Canadian buyers forget it we are stuck in the 1980's. It's great that this government is too dumb to realize or care that most items over $20 CDN go scott-free. Heck I've imported packages worth hundreds and one almost $1000 from Europe and didn't get dinged with anything.

CBSA officers are, for the most part, ignorant of Canadian tariffs and customs and routinely slap blatantly incorrect HS codes on packages if they decide to assess a package for duty/taxes. So I will continue to fill out CBSA refund forms and send them proof that they don't have a clue what they are doing and I will continue to get my refund cheques in the mail. But what a waste of tax payer money. It would be nice if the Canadian threshold was higher especially when using a courier service and it is why I only potentially use a courier service if I am importing a higher priced item.

So better times for Canadian sellers, but the same old dark ages for Canadian buyers.

reallynicestamps · ‎03-26-2016

Why are you complaining here?

You can write your MP at

MPs name, MP

House of Commons

OTTAWA ON K0A 0A6

You don't even need a stamp on the envelope.

You don't need a stamp to mail a suggestion to the Minister to whom CBSA reports either.

That's Ralph Goodale ,to whom Linda Lizotte-MacPherson, President of CBSA, reports.

Minister Goodale can be reached at :

The Honourable Ralph Goodale,PC, MP

Minister of Public Safety

House of Commons

OTTAWA ON K0A 0A6

For the record, while the USA has no federal sales tax like the GST, there are state and even city sales taxes which may or may not be applied to imports.However Canadian sellers need not worry about these as they are the responsibility of the importer not the exporter.

Again, no stamp is required.

ypdc_dennis · ‎03-26-2016

@winepress780 wrote:
Effective Mar 10, 2016 Americans can now import $800 U.S. duty and tax free while Canadians are saddled with a puny $20 CDN limit. Way to go Canada! It is a better time now for Canadian sellers selling bigger ticket items to Americas. As for Canadian buyers forget it we are stuck in the 1980's. It's great that this government is too dumb to realize or care that most items over $20 CDN go scott-free. Heck I've imported packages worth hundreds and one almost $1000 from Europe and didn't get dinged with anything.

So better times for Canadian sellers, but the same old dark ages for Canadian buyers.

Canada has GST/HST sales taxes which apply over the limit. Most Canadians never have any duty issues, just the sales tax.

The USA has no federal sales tax, just a vast array of State and City taxes (but they have no say in the $800 limit because they don't have border control).

-.-

If you think you can influence the government into giving up tax revenue, mail a request to raise the rate to your MP in Ottawa.

-.-

pierrelebel · ‎03-26-2016

"giving up tax revenue"

Unfortunately the issue is much more than that.

Due to our proximity to the USA, and the growing trade created by the internet, Canadians should seriously consider protecting Canadian jobs, instead of wishing to avoid Canadian taxes which give us our very unique Canadian society.

If Canadians spend $100,000 by mail on taxable products from US providers with the purpose of saving GST/HST then one Canadian retail job is lost. Multiply that by 100 and 100 Canadian jobs are lost. Multiply by 1,000 and 1,000 Canadian jobs are lost. etc...

That is the real big picture (jobs) and I sincerely hope our federal government resists pressure by some Canadian shoppers to get a higher tax exemption when purchasing goods by mail from the USA or overseas.

Like all Canadians I do not like paying taxes. However, avoiding them will create chaos to the social fabric of our country

momcqueen · ‎03-26-2016

@winepress780 wrote:

CBSA officers are, for the most part, ignorant of Canadian tariffs and customs and routinely slap blatantly incorrect HS codes on packages if they decide to assess a package for duty/taxes......

I have found it to be generally unwise to taunt officers of the law; they are not as ill-informed as you might think.

winepress780 · ‎03-26-2016

@pierrelebel wrote:
"giving up tax revenue"

Unfortunately the issue is much more than that.

Due to our proximity to the USA, and the growing trade created by the internet, Canadians should seriously consider protecting Canadian jobs, instead of wishing to avoid Canadian taxes which give us our very unique Canadian society.

If Canadians spend $100,000 by mail on taxable products from US providers with the purpose of saving GST/HST then one Canadian retail job is lost. Multiply that by 100 and 100 Canadian jobs are lost. Multiply by 1,000 and 1,000 Canadian jobs are lost. etc...

That is the real big picture (jobs) and I sincerely hope our federal government resists pressure by some Canadian shoppers to get a higher tax exemption when purchasing goods by mail from the USA or overseas.

Like all Canadians I do not like paying taxes. However, avoiding them will create chaos to the social fabric of our country

I'm not sure I follow this line of reasoning because it should apply to the United States also yet they have increased their de-minimus to an insane level compared to Canada. And these type of jobs you are talking about aren't they mostly low minimum wage jobs that require little to no education or experience? Not knocking these jobs but wouldn't it be better to promote and protect better education and higher paying jobs if this is what we are talking about? Even with Canada's $20 limit retail in Canada has been hit hard and is on the decline. And one of the reasons why is prices online are sometimes significantly cheaper than in the store. I've even seen the odd thing that is ONE THIRD of the price online than in local shops so I'm talking about an item that is $50 online vs $150 in the store. So even getting hit with say an insane 18% duty it can still be a lot cheaper to buy online than in the store; the de-minimus has little to no impact and seems to be a waste of tax payer money. And what about Australia? Their limit is $1000 AU (not sure if that is just duty or both duty and taxes) but Australia and Canada are very much similar in that we mostly produce raw resources and not much leading the way in advanced technology. And the cross border shopping exemption biases Canadian living near the border so everyone else in the country can't benefit from that either.

pierrelebel · ‎03-26-2016

" it should apply to the United States also "

Not really because the USA is one of the very few countries in the industrialized world who does not have a national sales tax.

In Europe, they have VAT (Value Added Tax) which typically range from 15% to 25%. They have learned to live with it.

Because of the proximity of the USA that cross border tax avoidance is a very specific Canadian problem.

"And what about Australia? Their limit is $1000"

They do not have the proximity problem we have.

winepress780 · ‎03-26-2016

I haven't taunted anyone. From my experience and in my cases they don't understand difference between a part of an item that is useless in and of itself vs a fully assembled item that contains parts. And this is important when the part of an item is duty free but the fully assembled item that contains parts is not. I will continue to send them the refund forms and continue to prove that they are wrong and they will continue to send me my refund cheque. I wrote in one letter to them that I don't understand how a CBSA officer can slap a HS code such as blah blah on the package when it is obvious to anyone who considers the size and weight of the package alone that it can't be that type of item. I said they don't even look at the invoice and if they would of looked at the invoice they would of seen the HS code on it because it's right there.

winepress780 · ‎03-26-2016

And still none of the current measures are really protecting Canadian jobs because they are not stopping Canadians from shopping online when the prices are so much better. At best they may be putting a small damper on it but the damper is becoming less and less as prices online vs prices in the store diverge. If anything the current system is hurting Canadians who are trying to run small businesses right here with an onerous duty/tax import system.

I brought up Australia because Canada and Australia are very much similar in what they produce--raw resources, but you are right there is no proximity issue there. I would ask why is the current system biased to those living near the border as there are jobs to protect near the border also and a good percentage of the Canadian population lives near the border? It is just that those who don't live near the border are at a disadvantage.

winepress780 · ‎03-26-2016

Thanks for the info!

Canadians seem to be complacent and not vocal at all with their government when things need to change. I'm all for a better economy and small businesses as they are often the technology innovators. The current system is helping to shut out access for Canadians to worldwide markets simply because the United States is close to us. The distributors are one of many reasons why some things are so pricey here in Canada. Cut out the distributor networks and buy direct from the manufacturer (or a large international reseller) and things might be a bit cheaper here. There are some parts for example that I can only get from Europe as they are for European made products. If I can even get these from the United States they are usually quite a bit cheaper from Europe than from the United States. Let other countries do what they do best, some countries are just better at producing some things than others, and give Canadians better access to these markets.

A lot of stuff I need and use is simply not produced in Canada and sometimes it is not even available in Canada. Just the other day I needed some grease and I found out that it is only produced basically in the United Kingdom and Australia under a slightly different brand--you can't even buy it in North America. So I don't know what I'm going to do about that because I need to find out if it is a product that I can import without restrictions or know what the restrictions are first.

marnotom! · ‎03-27-2016

@winepress780 wrote:

Effective Mar 10, 2016 Americans can now import $800 U.S. duty and tax free while Canadians are saddled with a puny $20 CDN limit.

Over 40 US states charge "use tax" on out of state purchases made by residents of those states which is basically the equivalent of state sales tax. As far as I know, there is no minimum item value for it to be applied.

The rub here is that the feds can't collect use taxes, the mechanisms for individual states' collection of those taxes tend to rely on the honour system, and the majority of residents in those states where use tax is charged are unaware of the tax so they don't pay it.

winepress780 · ‎03-27-2016

Are you sure "Use Tax" applies to international shipments? I thought it applies to interstate sales only, not on international shipments coming into the United States. Otherwise the now $800 U.S. de-minimus really has no impact on anything except potentially duty. Some countries have different de-minimus values for duty vs sales tax (example European nations.) My understanding is that both the United States and Canada de-minimus values are for both duty and sales tax. Are you sure you are not talking about an Internet Sales Tax, the U.S. doesn't have an Internet Sales Tax but there is a lot of discussion about it.

BTW there is talk about lowering the Australian $1000 AU de-minimus. I can almost guarantee though that if they lower it it won't be just a pathetic $20 AU.

momcqueen · ‎03-27-2016

You are harping at the wrong choir. Go here: http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/bt/mnstr-eng.aspx

winepress780 · ‎03-27-2016

Thank you for the information. Perhaps this is the wrong place to discuss this topic. However, the vast majority of Canadians are ignorant about these things and because they are ignorant they will do nothing about it. They will only get slapped with a courier brokerage bill or CBSA duty/taxes on low value shipments and have no idea why on an order as little as $21 CDN. The other half are aware and could care less I guess. I realize that this is a separate issue, however I see benefit in discussing (complaining about) these things and getting the word out. If Canadians knew how great the discrepancy was between the United States and Canada they might take action. This is a buyers forum and these things do affect Canadian buyers, but understandably that this is probably the wrong forum to discuss this. If the eBay moderators see fit to delete this thread because it serves no value to anyone buying on eBay that's fine I'll find somewhere else to discuss it.

marnotom! · ‎03-27-2016

@winepress780 wrote:

Are you sure "Use Tax" applies to international shipments? I thought it applies to interstate sales only, not on international shipments coming into the United States. Otherwise the now $800 U.S. de-minimus really has no impact on anything except potentially duty.

There may be some variations in how individual states handle use tax for purchases of items originating from outside of the country, but this is what the California State Board of Equalization has to say about this, at least:

Generally, use tax also applies to foreign purchases of tangible personal property brought into California for storage, use, or other consumption.

@winepress780 wrote:

Are you sure you are not talking about an Internet Sales Tax, the U.S. doesn't have an Internet Sales Tax but there is a lot of discussion about it.

My understanding of discussions about "Internet Sales Tax" is that they're actually about mechanisms to enforce current use tax statutes. Whether all those discussing it realize it is another matter entirely.

momcqueen · ‎03-29-2016

@winepress780 wrote:
Thank you for the information. Perhaps this is the wrong place to discuss this topic. However, the vast majority of Canadians are ignorant about these things and because they are ignorant they will do nothing about it. They will only get slapped with a courier brokerage bill or CBSA duty/taxes on low value shipments and have no idea why on an order as little as $21 CDN. The other half are aware and could care less I guess. I realize that this is a separate issue, however I see benefit in discussing (complaining about) these things and getting the word out. If Canadians knew how great the discrepancy was between the United States and Canada they might take action. This is a buyers forum and these things do affect Canadian buyers, but understandably that this is probably the wrong forum to discuss this. If the eBay moderators see fit to delete this thread because it serves no value to anyone buying on eBay that's fine I'll find somewhere else to discuss it.

I am a buyer too. I make several day trips into the USA annually to buy the stuff my kids are begging me to get and, by land, the allowable duty-free limit on a day trip is zero dollars. That means I pay sales tax on everything I bring back into the country. Which is totally fair. If it had been available in Canada, that's where I would have bought it. While I would appreciate a free pass at the end of the shopping day as much as the next guy, I accept and understand the reason that is not going to happen. Money spent outside Canada is lost to Canadians. I don't begrudge my bill at the border. I factor it into my costs. It benefits Canadians sellers to have the American limit raised to $800.

winepress780 · ‎03-30-2016

Not everyone in Canada has the option of crossing the border in a cost effective and timely manner. Up to 18% duty on items that are hardly even made in Canada anymore isn't protecting anything. It wasn't even up until a few years ago that Canada decided to remove the duty amounts on hockey gear to be more in line with the United States. When CBSA officers don't understand the obvious difference between things where duty is different, it is a waste of time and money to have to request a refund of the duty. I can't imagine that having the CBSA process all my refund forms and cheques cost them nothing. In my experience they have never ever gotten it right. If the duty limit was higher then they couldn't screw up the duty so much.

It is really a waste of everyone's resources when such small amounts of taxes and duty are collected. Couriers are the worst. If I use DHL Express I have to factor in that anything over $20 is going to cost me a $10.50 processing fee and a $4.25 transaction fee. So if I need just a small item that costs say $30 it is going to cost me an additional $14.75. And guess who benefits from it? The federal government gets a measly $1.50 (+ 0.74 cents eventually) in GST. and DHL gets the bulk of what is collected. The actual shipping I would have to pay on something like that, about $8 is far cheaper than the brokerage fee DHL would collect. This kind of system isn't generating revenue for the government. It is an old out-of-date protectionist system. For me this has the effect that I'm actually spending more online with higher priced orders to make it worthwhile. So yeah this kind of system is driving me to spend more online instead of locally! And what if someone is running a small business and they need a small low valued part right away? It is going to cost them through the roof and the government gets almost nothing.

marnotom! · ‎03-30-2016

@winepress780 wrote:

It is really a waste of everyone's resources when such small amounts of taxes and duty are collected. Couriers are the worst. If I use DHL Express I have to factor in that anything over $20 is going to cost me a $10.50 processing fee and a $4.25 transaction fee. So if I need just a small item that costs say $30 it is going to cost me an additional $14.75. And guess who benefits from it? The federal government gets a measly $1.50 (+ 0.74 cents eventually) in GST. and DHL gets the bulk of what is collected.

Bear in mind that DHL isn't charging just for the collection of taxes and duty, though.

winepress780 · ‎03-30-2016

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

If there are no taxes or duty involved (e.x. anything under $20) there are no charges with DHL Express. So their brokerage charge on amounts more than $20 is entirely for the collection of duty and tax and the paperwork and reporting involved in that process. It is equivalent to Canada Post's $9.95 "handling" charge. So the brokerage charge includes the "paperwork" that otherwise is not necessary if the item is below the $20 limit because if it was there is no such charge. Any paperwork involved in brokering the package into Canada for an item below $20 is covered by the shipping costs at the time the item is shipped. Although if you mention the word "brokerage" to DHL they won't understand what you mean but the $14.75 is a charge that is incurred to bring the package in where duty and taxes are applied; it's a "brokerage" charge. This applies to anything between $20 and $2500 as a low valued shipment. Past $2500 I don't know what the rules are but I can't imagine it costing less.

I would never use a courier that charges a brokerage for an item that doesn't require special paperwork or legalities to import if there are no duty or taxes involved. DHL Express doesn't do that, and to me if a courier did do that it would be a borderline pirate shipping company that I would not use.

marnotom! · ‎03-30-2016

@winepress780 wrote:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

If there are no taxes or duty involved (e.x. anything under $20) there are no charges with DHL Express. So their brokerage charge on amounts more than $20 is entirely for the collection of duty and tax and the paperwork and reporting involved in that process. It is equivalent to Canada Post's $9.95 "handling" charge. So the brokerage charge includes the "paperwork" that otherwise is not necessary if the item is below the $20 limit because if it was there is no such charge.

Last week, I had to go to my nearby postal outlet in my town on Vancouver Island to pick up a package I had ordered from the States. I'm not sure if it was shipped by DHL to the Vancouver Airport (and handed off to Canada Post from there) or if DHL merely handled the logistics end on things once they received it from another US-based shipper, but there was a note on the package that there was a COD charge of precisely CDN$10 plus the CDN$3.86 taxes owing on it and that charge was levied by DHL to cover collection/advancement and disbursement of taxes and duty.

So there's some differences between my DHL experience and yours. I had only one charge, not two, and my charge is less than what you're paying. That second charge--the "transaction fee"--that you're paying seems to go towards something other than the collection/advancement and disbursement of taxes and duty.

@winepress780 wrote:

I would never use a courier that charges a brokerage for an item that doesn't require special paperwork or legalities to import if there are no duty or taxes involved. DHL Express doesn't do that, and to me if a courier did do that it would be a borderline pirate shipping company that I would not use.

I would surmise that those charges would likely be folded into the shipping charge instead and that they make up a good chunk of DHL Express's charges for shipments with declared values of more than CDN$20, to boot.