Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[afantiques]

The only thing this GSP thing does is to create a stupid system to collect more money for eBay and their dear friend Pitney Bowes

In fact, it generates far more revenue for Canada's tax coffers than it does for ebay or PB.

I'm not saying  this is something that buyers are likely to be pleased about, but it is what happens.

[afantiques]

Note to ebay: you can use shipping center, but let customers pay duty and taxes.

You may know how unpopular UPS ground shipping is. It would be exactly the same if GSP stuff was shipped parcel by parcel. Import clearance costs would rocket.

[wickedservant]

Post link from Canada Customs, Canada Post or Canada Revenue Agency referring to the 'good people of Ebay's Global Shipping Program' paying proper customs, duties and taxes.

On the contrary, I can copy/paste from one or more of the above how courier services appointed through Global Shipping were collecting inappropriately.

Bye.

[afantiques]

Post link from Canada Customs, Canada Post or Canada Revenue Agency referring to the 'good people of Ebay's Global Shipping Program' paying proper customs, duties and taxes.

I'm not clear what you mean by this. The clearance process is the same as for the millions of other commercial import transactions that happen every year. If you have a 'Freedom of Information' process in Canada you could put in a request to CBSA to find out how much Pitney Bowes Inc. as importer of record, paid in various import taxes last year, but as they conduct cross border operations for other companies under the same umbrella, it would not be just ebay items they'd be paying on. It would be a fair amount of work to establish something that is not seriously in dispute.

On the contrary, I can copy/paste from one or more of the above how courier services appointed through Global Shipping were collecting inappropriately.

Please do so.

Although if you mean posts above, many assumptions are based on a quite understandable  ignorance of how everything works.

[wickedservant]

Countless packages cross the border with no extra charge(s) beyond the initial, inexpensive USPS rate.

You go ahead and validate your previous claim that the 'wonderful people at Pitney Bowes are making sure that Canada receives all monies it SHOULD have been collecting, thanks to Ebay's Global Shipping'.

[afantiques]

Countless packages cross the border with no extra charge(s) beyond the initial, inexpensive USPS rate.

Because they are sent by mail and are not charged tax that is technically due as it is not cost effective to assess and collect it

You go ahead and validate your previous claim that the wonderful people at Pitney Bowes are making sure that Canada receives all monies it SHOULD have been collecting, thanks to Ebay's Global Shipping.

I certainly made no such claim in those words, so I have removed the quotes. You are asking me to prove rain comes from clouds.

Due to the way the items are imported, as commercial airfreight, all taxes and duties legally payable have to be paid. Otherwise the import clearance is not granted. For impartial confirmation of the process I suggest an elementary textbook on international trade law and practice, something I really don't have time to write again over breakfast.

[wickedservant]

You were paraphrased, not quoted;

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/Comments-about-the-Global-Shipping-Program/m-p/230830#M166...

Now that you know the difference (or don't) I'm sure you'll have no problem finding the facts by which you made the statement.

[huntersaebaryu]

 In fact, it generates far more revenue for Canada's tax coffers than it does for ebay or PB.

 I'm not saying  this is something that buyers are likely to be pleased about, but it is what happens.

Fine... I'll rephrase... the only thing this GSP thing does is to create a stupid system to collect extra unnecessary taxes for Revenue Canada and more money for eBay and their friend Pitney Bowes.  Happy now? 

As buyers' stand points, we never had to pay those taxes before most of the time and now we do due to this stupid GSP thing thus make those taxes extra and unnecessary.  And at the same time I stand true when I said Pitney Bowes and eBay are profitting huge from this little scheme.

If they really think this GSP garbage is better, why not let buyer to select it as an option? We can either select to use this money sucking program or "risk it" like we always have been.. of course eBay is not going to do that.  How else are they going to suck more money out of us. 

[afantiques]

so I have removed the quotes

I meant the quotation marks you had inserted. Since I was quoting your post I had a responsibility to mention any alterations that I made to it. Your paraphrase was far more parody than phrasing I'd use.

[afantiques]

Fine... I'll rephrase... the only thing this GSP thing does is to create a stupid system to collect extra unnecessary taxes for Revenue Canada and more money for eBay and their friend Pitney Bowes.  Happy now? 

Not really. The Canadian government enacted those taxes, they are being collected.  Unless the Canadian government is running a budget surplus,they are no more unnecessary that any other taxes. It is true that postal imports often escape them nowadays, but GSP imports are not postal imports.

As buyers' stand points, we never had to pay those taxes before most of the time and now we do due to this stupid GSP thing thus make those taxes extra and unnecessary.  And at the same time I stand true when I said Pitney Bowes and eBay are profiting huge from this little scheme.

A better comparison is with stuff sent UPS ground, with it's well known brokerage charges. GSP imports are not postal imports, and to avoid the taxes, or to stand a good chance of avoiding them, buy from sellers who are not using GSP shipping.

If they really think this GSP garbage is better, why not let buyer to select it as an option? We can either select to use this money sucking program or "risk it" like we always have been.. of course eBay is not going to do that.  How else are they going to suck more money out of us.

You can select it, by buying from non GSP sellers.

I think it is a badly designed and very badly implemented idea, but going postal about it just devalues useful criticism and gives the impression to anyone seriously reviewing this topic that because the opponents are so emotional and irrational, their opposition is more or less worthless.

[arlene_v]

This program is unlike anything we are used to, most of us shopping here online on eBay, so I think we do need to cut ourselves a bit of slack if we get confused by this change that has been sprung on us.

Folks in New Zealand are having just such a hard time with this. They normally don't pay GST on items less than NZ$400, but are being whacked with "import charges" on items that are less than this under the GSP.

This is the explanation AF provided one poster on a thread on the international trade forum on the US boards. 

GSP items are not imported as 'unaccompanied personal goods', they are technically exported from USA and imported into NZ by the exporter/importer of record, which is Pitney Bowes Inc., a corporate entity, not a private person, so reliefs normally available to individuals do not apply. The imported items are not, when imported, personal goods to NZ customs, but a routine commercial cargo shipment.

You need to research the rules applying to general mixed cargo, not personal imports.

The tax position of a pallet load of GSP items arriving in NZ is  the same as a container load of mixed widgets from China imported by a NZ supermarket.

For confirmation of this see the full GSP terms and conditions  which make PB the official exporter/importer.

This endless confusion is caused by the use of bulk airfreight and customs clearance by commercial manifest, a totally different process from the postal or courier import of single personal items.  Even if couriered items are cleared inwards in the same way as GSP items, the consignee's status will make them eligible for reliefs not available to Pitney Bowes and its New Zealand agents.

So of course this begs the question.

If Canadian buyers are getting a "free pass" on items under $20 due to the "benevolence" of PB .. what happens if our "personal exemption" is actually increased?

Will the NZ situation then apply?

How does the Australian situation work? They have a personal threshold  of AUS$1000, I believe?

Also, why does the buyer's province get used in the calculation  if the buyer is not the importer? 

As I mentioned, this is totally new territory, so yes, confusing for those of us who are used to buying from the US (and UK) all the time and in the vast majority of cases, we are not hit with tax and duty. 

So, somewhat illogical posting is not a surprise.

It seems to make no sense looking at different countries. Sometimes there is a personal exemption and sometimes not. Why?

 Edit to add: If this has already been discussed and answered on this thread, please just point me to it ...I honestly have not read each and every post, not even recent ones. 

[00nevermind00]

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@afantiques wrote:

I think it is a badly designed and very badly implemented idea, but going postal about it just devalues useful criticism and gives the impression to anyone seriously reviewing this topic that because the opponents are so emotional and irrational, their opposition is more or less worthless.

---

Agreed 100%! There are so many real flaws and problems with the GSP that there should be no need to invent more. A calm, factual post will always be more effective than a hysterical one. I think we can safely say that no one here likes the GSP. Supposedly eBay and PB are reading these posts (we do not that Bennett reads at least some of them): I strongly doubt that they are moved and/or impressed by groundless accusations of scam, rip-off, cash grab, etc. (even if the program can very much feel that way to buyers). Such accusations may make posters feel better about "getting it off their chest" but they really accomplish nothing else.

The GSP actually teaches a very useful lesson in eBay buying: buyers should always read every single word on the listing page before they hit that shiny Bid or Commit to Buy button. Another lesson would be that no matter how convenient mobile devices are, they are not good tools for eBay browsing.

[luv4orphans]

I think there should be a button where we can click to report Pitney Bowes to eBay. I am seeing all kinds of listings where they are charging $8.38 customs fees and the item is priced at $19.99. ?????  I thought their minimum was $20.00 before they start robbing us. Funny how I can go across the border and go shopping and they don't hit us with fees until $45.00. That's what it was the last time I crossed over which has been a few years. Do they have a different set of rules for mailing. I wouldn't think so. Also funny when Customs lets the $20.00 items go. Heck they let the $100.00 items go.

I steer clear of any sellers that ships with the Global Shipping Program and won't budge on shipping here by any other method. I got caught once and that was enough.

Its getting cheaper to buy within Canada or from overseas then being swindled like this out of our hard earned money.

[arlene_v]

Did a bit of digging and came up with the answers to the questions I asked in post 3051.

FWIW, it comes from the duty calculator site so who knows how accurate the info is. http://www.dutycalculator.com/country-guides/

To summarise: 

In Australia commercial and personal imports less than $1000 are exempt from tax and duty

In Canada, commercial and personal imports less than $20 are exempt from tax and duty. The amount of duty and taxes due depends on the place of residence of the importer rather than on the location where the goods enter Canada. Once this threshold is reached, commercial importers are only subject to GST.  Private importers are subject to HST (i.e. GST + PST).   Duty is charged if and where applicable on imports over $20. 

In New Zealand, duty, GST and other import fees are only charged when the sum of duty and GST amount to NZ$60 and above. (No distinction is provided between commercial and private importers)  In addition to duty, imports are subject to other taxes and charges such as sales tax (GST), Import Entry Transaction Fee, Inward Cargo Transaction Fee, and excise duty on some products.

This answers my questions, so, posters to this thread, please ignore my earlier post if you haven't already done so!!   

[legolasfan]

No, I don't think they care at all. They don't care about the sellers either, I emailed them about an unfair neutral left from a buyer that I never heard from even after I left them 3 invoices and then started a case through ebay. I sent ebay 3 emails about this, never heard hide nor hair back from them. If they don't care about their sellers they sure don't care about the buyers. I buy a lot on etsy now, and from other sources that don't have anything like a GSP.

[afantiques]

In New Zealand, duty, GST and other import fees are only charged when the sum of duty and GST amount to NZ$60 and above. (No distinction is provided between commercial and private importers)  In addition to duty, imports are subject to other taxes and charges such as sales tax (GST), Import Entry Transaction Fee, Inward Cargo Transaction Fee, and excise duty on some products.

Good for  you for doing your own digging and presenting the results clearly, but I think you should rummage in the NZ rules a bit more,(try NZ government sources) looking at the conditions for the personal import exemption.  There is a distinction between personal and commercial imports depending on who the consignee is. If the consignee is a NZ resident both postal and courier imports get the exemption. Unhappily for NZ residents, at the point of import, they are not the consignees of the shipment, the importer of record is that importer is a commercial entity.

I have found that it is usually best to assume the GSP import charges are based on legitimate import charges, and look around the relevant regulations for the actual rules they are following.

Usual caveat, I'm not defending the program, just trying to get the facts straight.

[arlene_v]

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@afantiques wrote:

In New Zealand, duty, GST and other import fees are only charged when the sum of duty and GST amount to NZ$60 and above. (No distinction is provided between commercial and private importers)  In addition to duty, imports are subject to other taxes and charges such as sales tax (GST), Import Entry Transaction Fee, Inward Cargo Transaction Fee, and excise duty on some products.

Good for  you for doing your own digging and presenting the results clearly, but I think you should rummage in the NZ rules a bit more,(try NZ government sources) looking at the conditions for the personal import exemption.  There is a distinction between personal and commercial imports depending on who the consignee is. If the consignee is a NZ resident both postal and courier imports get the exemption. Unhappily for NZ residents, at the point of import, they are not the consignees of the shipment, the importer of record is that importer is a commercial entity.

I have found that it is usually best to assume the GSP import charges are based on legitimate import charges, and look around the relevant regulations for the actual rules they are following.

Usual caveat, I'm not defending the program, just trying to get the facts straight.

---

No worries, AF, I always know that you are about as much of a fan as I am of this program, and you always approach this with facts, not hyperbole. 

I try very hard to understand some of these new concepts, commercial vs non-commercial, casual imports, freight, tax credits, importer of record ...these unknown terms are quite a challenge sometimes, and it really does make my head spin.  

Thanks for the info, I will definitely check out the NZ govt sources/site.

Poor folks, they have it worse than us it seems! 

[huntersaebaryu]

You have to look at the root of things.  WHY is eBay pushing so hard that most of the sellers now are now opting to this now?  One simple reason, extra source of revenue.  I am sure they get a nice kick back from Pitney Bowes, plus the "amount differences between what you paid and what they paid to pitney bowes that they are not refunding you" (said in their terms and conditions).  It can really add up. 

There is a good reason why this GSP thing feels like a scam.  If it quacks like a duck, smells like a duck then it's a duck.  Saying this is most likely not going to do anything, but so is saying so called "constructive comments". I know eBay is never going to back down on this nor improve it like giving buyers options to use GSP or conventional method.  There are too much money at stake here.  Some genius upstairs drafted up this little scheme and now they are happily collecting the extra revenues from unsuspected buyers (or buyers without a choice) with the helps of unsuspected sellers. 

I am not saying this to "get off my chest"... I am simply pointing out the facts and hoping all buyers would stop buying from any seller using GSP. 

[3islanders]

Is it my imagination or is this program getting more and more pervasive?  It seems like most of the items I've looked at lately are GSP items.  I'm afraid that eventually ALL sellers will be required to use this program, to ship anything out of the USA, and then Canadian buyers who don't want to pay extra will be really out of luck. 

I was looking at a 99 cent item, with no bids yet, which if it was first class shipping, I'd have gone after.  But it ships via Priority Mail, for $30.  $30 for shipping on a 99 cent item, or even a $5 item if it got more bids, is ridiculous. If I lived closer to the border or could get a friend there to receive it for me, shipping would be $6.45.

Just for kicks I messaged the seller asking if this was a default setting or did he offer any other options, like first class.

He said, he wasn't really sure!, that it must be a default setting!!, and as far as he knows, items go to a shipping center and are mailed from there.  He doesn't even know!!!!!!!!!!!

How many sellers are sucked into this program without even knowing how it works or what their potential buyers are being charged?!

Who thought up this train wreck and is there anything in the works (petitions or otherwise) to try to convince eBay to ditch it??

[femmefan1946]

$19.99 US is about $21.90 Canadian.

US sellers are the only ones using GSP. They list in US dollars.

Canada Borders Services Agency works in loonies.

Even when there is no duty applicable (and there may or may not be on a $21.90 item, it depends on where is was manufactured, not where it was purchased.) sales taxes from 5% to 15% are applicable along with the PB service fee for bringing the item into Canada and to your doorstep.