eBay

fort2b · ‎07-17-2016

In the item description, the GSP no longer shows import charges, just the shipping cost. The buyer won't know he's going to be charged import charges, which are often way higher than they should be, until after he/she has bought. Expect some angry buyers if you use GSP.

This probably won't effect many Canadian sellers as I doubt many of us use GSP but for those that do, beware. The US and UK sellers, many of whom do use GSP, are going to get a lot of angry buyers from this change. Nice surprise charge after you've committed to buy. Cool.

esclyons · ‎07-23-2016

i bought an item recently , after contacting the seller first, and he assured me there was no gsp fees, even though it showed on his listing.. long story short he was using it and mailing his packages direct to customers, so pb, was just getting free money from him, for doing nothing. he also called ebay for me, explained that he mailed direct to me, and i got a full refund of the fees.. But again, how many sellers don';t even know they are using the **bleep** system..

gifts_of_elegance · ‎07-23-2016

My seller wrote "I did not add global shipping to my listing, this as added by eBay." She also wrote that she only charged 3.90 GPB for shipping, not 14,67GPB that was shown on the listing. She also stated that she was only paid 3.90 GPB for shipping.

marnotom! · ‎07-23-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:

So it's a test... A remarkably dumb one, if I may be allowed to express an opinion. Why have it on .com and not .ca? What could possibly be gained by hiding important information from buyers? This must be the brainchild of the same genius who came up with the "hide description" test a while ago.

Marnotom, how can you possibly know that only "habitual" .com users are no longer seeing the import charges? It is entirely possible that some (many?) first-time users also don't see any import charges, but they're unlikely to come to these boards to post about it. The fact is that we have no way of knowing who is targeted by this test. And eBay, who seems to love and value secrecy, isn't going to tell us anytime soon.

I guess you missed the verb "seems" in my statement which means "appears that way". Doesn't mean that it "is that way."

@00nevermind00 wrote:

Here are a few suggestions for eBay, free of charge. No need to thank me.

1. Stop enrolling clueless sellers without telling them. Clueless sellers tend to attract clueless buyers and this can only cause problems for everyone.

2. Some buyers would sooner have their teeth drilled rather than buy anything that ships with the GSP. Why not give them the GSP filter that they want? You are alienating those buyers, eBay! By forcing them to look at GSP items they don't want to see, you won't make them buy with the program, you'll send them and their money to other shopping sites.

3. Simplify the claims process. This is especially urgent in the case of seller-fault SNAD. Buyers who end up out-of-pocket because of the convoluted claims process aren't likely to buy GSP items. On the contrary, they'll avoid those like the plague and they may decide to avoid eBay altogether. And in this day and age of social media communication, one angry and wronged customer can do a lot of damage.

Here are a few responses that might come from eBay seeing as you're unlikely to get a response from them here. I'm not saying I agree with these responses. I'm only saying that this is how eBay may respond to these suggestions.

1. The GSP is mentioned in the .com user agreement that sellers are supposed to keep up to speed on. If they're "clueless" it's because they haven't been keeping up with or they don't understand changes to the UA.

2. If eBay were to allow buyers to filter out GSP listings, there would likely be carriers who would want their shipping method promoted so that buyers could search for specific shipping methods. This would likely open a pretty ugly Pandora's Box. Besides, as many posters have pointed out in the Canadian discussion boards, using "list view" for search results tends to do a good job of highlighting the GSP listings.

3. I'm not sure that the claims process needs to be simplified; it may just need to be explained on the eBay site or in the GSP terms and conditions for buyers.. Buyers who end up out of pocket seem to have been ones who have been led astray by an eBay CSR who knows nothing about the GSP.

marnotom! · ‎07-23-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:

I also agree this is likely to be a test run on, for example, members with a low feedback count as opposed to a feedback count of five hundred or more. Experienced users notice irregularities and raise the hue and cry, thusly defeating the purpose of a test like this.

Possibly, but you can see how much feedback I have on this ID and my regular buying ID has a feedback rating of less than 50. I don't see anything different about GSP listings on the .com site right now.

marnotom! · ‎07-23-2016

@sylviebee wrote:

What kind of test is that? Testing to determine if they can fool us into using the GSP is beyond insulting.

Consumer protection groups would be appalled, as am I.

Given that what's being used is a site primarily designed for American users, you were looking for a logo to tip you off, and that the GSP is still mentioned in the "shipping" portion of the listing, what sort of complaint do you think could be filed with a Canadian consumer protection agency?

marnotom! · ‎07-23-2016

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I purchased item 231992248824 with 0 import charges showing. My shipping address was to USA. The following day Pitney Bowes charged my credit card $15.25 for Import Charges. I complained to the seller and she was very upset but could do nothing. She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.

How long ago was this purchase? I can't find this listing.

The fact that the rep you spoke to refers to a $800 limit suggests to me that you were speaking with someone not familiar with the GSP and how it applies to Canadian purchases, by the way. The tax and duty-free limit for a GSP item is C$20.

reallynicestamps · ‎07-23-2016

Technically , for any import GSP, courier or postal, it is $20 CDN (~$16 USD)

Canada Post and CBSA tend to ignore items valued under $100CDN, unless they are very bulky, so many Canadians are unaware of how low the duty free allowance is.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-24-2016

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
I purchased item 231992248824 with 0 import charges showing. My shipping address was to USA. The following day Pitney Bowes charged my credit card $15.25 for Import Charges. I complained to the seller and she was very upset but could do nothing. She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.
Was there 1 or 2 charges from PB? If the $15.25 was the only charge that would be the shipping charge / handling fee from the UK gsp. The seller would have received about 94gbp. (90 for the item + 3.90gbp ifor domestic shipping ) and pb would have received about 11gbp which was the remainder of the shipping charge shown on the listing If there are 2 charges from pb rather than just 1 you should phone PayPal as there should be no taxes or duty due.

In other words....according to the listing the total paid to the seller should have been approx. US$125 and pb should have received approx US$15. I am assuming that you paid in u.s. Dollars. Was that close to what you paid in total?

Why are you assuming things? I paid $19.59 for shipping as stated on the listing. The seller says she only received a very small portion of this. I paid for item and shipping with PayPal. As far as I was concerned, that was my total cost. I never received anything from Pitney Bowes, they just charged my credit card for $15.25 import charge.

I can only go by the information that you have given. I realize that you paid the full shipping amount to PayPal but since the seller only receives the domestic part of shipping the total you paid would show as 2 separate transactions - one to the seller and one to Pb. So even if there were no import charges pb would still show as receiving money for the shipping portion. If you are saying that pb is being paid a portion of the shipping on your PayPal account PLUS they are charging an extra amount on your cc then you should complain since you didn't authorize that extra amount.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-24-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I purchased item 231992248824 with 0 import charges showing. My shipping address was to USA. The following day Pitney Bowes charged my credit card $15.25 for Import Charges. I complained to the seller and she was very upset but could do nothing. She said that she spoke to eBay and they agreed that it showed 0 and also that no import charges apply under $800 but there was nothing they could do.

How long ago was this purchase? I can't find this listing.

The fact that the rep you spoke to refers to a $800 limit suggests to me that you were speaking with someone not familiar with the GSP and how it applies to Canadian purchases, by the way. The tax and duty-free limit for a GSP item is C$20.

To find it you have to look st completed listings. Some closed listings don't show up in a regular search....you have to specify completed listings, I have no idea why that happens but I've noticed it off and on for the last few months.

The rep was referring to an $800 limit because the buyer was using a U.S. address, not a Canadian one. The item was a U.K. gsp listing.

marnotom! · ‎07-24-2016

Thanks for all that, PJ.

I think we need to determine the currency in which gifts_of_elegance was billed by Pitney Bowes. If she was billed in Canadian or US dollars, the "import charges" bear no resemblance to the "import charges" for a sale to Canada. Even in provinces where just GST is charged, the "import charges" come to 15.45 pounds, not dollars, and that converts to an amount considerably higher than US$ or C$15.25.

So my guess is that GoE was charged in sterling for this charge that isn't a shipping charge.

The shipping charge is for either a shipment to Canada expressed in sterling, or else it's for a shipment to the United States expressed in US dollars.

Hope I'm making some sense here as it's way past my bedtime.

00nevermind00 · ‎07-24-2016

@marnotom! wrote:

Here are a few responses that might come from eBay seeing as you're unlikely to get a response from them here. I'm not saying I agree with these responses. I'm only saying that this is how eBay may respond to these suggestions.

I am aware that no one from eBay reads these boards. I was rhetorically addressing them, so to speak. It's obvious that eBay doesn't give two figs what Canadian buyers think of the GSP. I get the feeling that we're being used as Guinea pigs in this new "hidden import tax" experiment. I spent some time on the UK boards yesterday and saw nothing about it.

@marnotom! wrote:

1. The GSP is mentioned in the .com user agreement that sellers are supposed to keep up to speed on. If they're "clueless" it's because they haven't been keeping up with or they don't understand changes to the UA.

That is all well and good in theory, but in the real world many sellers (even the ones who aren't clueless) don't read the UA all the way through. This UA thing happened a while ago now, yet sellers still express surprise at finding themselves enrolled in the GSP. We've all ready posts about sellers who cancelled perfectly valid sales, who shipped directly to the buyer and whatnot.

@marnotom! wrote:

2. If eBay were to allow buyers to filter out GSP listings, there would likely be carriers who would want their shipping method promoted so that buyers could search for specific shipping methods. This would likely open a pretty ugly Pandora's Box. Besides, as many posters have pointed out in the Canadian discussion boards, using "list view" for search results tends to do a good job of highlighting the GSP listings.

I'm not following your reasoning here. This isn' about carriers, it's about giving buyers a choice. They already give buyers several filters to choose from in the dropdown menu:

How difficult would it be to add "Price+Shipping: No GSP"?

@marnotom! wrote:

3. I'm not sure that the claims process needs to be simplified; it may just need to be explained on the eBay site or in the GSP terms and conditions for buyers.. Buyers who end up out of pocket seem to have been ones who have been led astray by an eBay CSR who knows nothing about the GSP.

It could easily be simplified. Forget the T&C's, most buyers don't read them. Whenever a problem occurs, the reflex for buyers is to contact the seller. But we know that this is just about the worst thing to do in the case of a GSP item. So if a buyer tries contacting a seller about an INR or a SNAD, why not have a window pop up directing them to open a case instead? Surely eBay has ways to recognize that the purchase was made with the GSP. And when a buyer opens a case on a GSP item, eBay should direct the buyer accordingly.

I'm sure that this could easily be done if only eBay cared.

rose-dee · ‎07-24-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Just for info.....you can not claim amounts paid to pb from Canada customs because of the way the system is set up. Any claims have to be made to PB as the amount they give to customs is in their name, not in the buyers name. There's more to it than that but that's an easy way to explain it. It is done in a similar way by some other companies too.

Yes, you're quite right, my error, I forgot that CBSA will only refund the actual broker. And good luck to the buyer trying to claw the money back from Pitney-Bowes.

Just another good reason to avoid GSP if you're frequently buying from the U.S. On a couple of regular (USPS) parcels in the recent months I've successfully appealed to CBSA -- and won -- refunds of HST. Of course that doesn't include the ca. $10 Canada Post charges to collect the HST.

On another note, it seems to me there are more GSP listings (at least in categories I usually search) than ever. Clearly eBay is invested in this concept.

marnotom! · ‎07-24-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:

It's obvious that eBay doesn't give two figs what Canadian buyers think of the GSP. I get the feeling that we're being used as Guinea pigs in this new "hidden import tax" experiment. I spent some time on the UK boards yesterday and saw nothing about it.

It's been a while since I scoped out the UK discussion boards. Do they have two mega-threads about the GSP the way the Canadian ones do? I don't think so.

Here's a couple of reasons why you've probably seen nothing on this experiment on the UK boards:

1. UK buyers don't have as much reason to purchase from US eBay sellers as Canadian ones do. What they want is more easily obtained in their own back yard. Even if an item may be less expensive in the US than in the UK, quite often the shipping price (even if not sent through the GSP) will kibosh any sort of cost savings.

2. The vast majority of UK buyers are probably likely to stick to using the UK eBay site for purchases from the United States. AF may have some thoughts on that hypothesis.

@00nevermind00 wrote:

That is all well and good in theory, but in the real world many sellers (even the ones who aren't clueless) don't read the UA all the way through. This UA thing happened a while ago now, yet sellers still express surprise at finding themselves enrolled in the GSP. We've all ready posts about sellers who cancelled perfectly valid sales, who shipped directly to the buyer and whatnot.

eBay and its legal team would likely argue that in the real world, people are expected to read service agreements. If they don't, it's not the service's fault if the person using the service gets into trouble. In addition, eBay does send notices advising of updates to the UA. Established users don't have to read the entire thing; they just have to read up on the portions that eBay has pointed out as being relevant in the announcement.

@00nevermind00 wrote:

I'm not following your reasoning here. This isn' about carriers, it's about giving buyers a choice. They already give buyers several filters to choose from in the dropdown menu:

The GSP is considered a shipping method. It shows up in the "shipping" portion of a listing where it is being used. If there is a filter for GSP listings, that's tacitly a sign that the GSP is being favoured for those who don't use the filter. Carriers such as UPS and FedEx may ask why their shipping methods don't get any sort of special consideration in searches.

Are we able to filter listings for any other shipping method? Don't buyers already have a choice at the time when they view the listing or list view search results?

Besides, given how glitchy the .com site is when it comes to GSP listings (e.g. list view search results sometimes trumpet "free shipping!" only to display GSP details when one views the actual listing page), how reliable would such a filter be?

Having said that, perhaps this will be one of the things addressed (in a way only eBay can address it) with the proposed platform upgrade.

@00nevermind00 wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:

3. I'm not sure that the claims process needs to be simplified; it may just need to be explained on the eBay site or in the GSP terms and conditions for buyers.. Buyers who end up out of pocket seem to have been ones who have been led astray by an eBay CSR who knows nothing about the GSP.

It could easily be simplified. Forget the T&C's, most buyers don't read them. Whenever a problem occurs, the reflex for buyers is to contact the seller. But we know that this is just about the worst thing to do in the case of a GSP item. So if a buyer tries contacting a seller about an INR or a SNAD, why not have a window pop up directing them to open a case instead? Surely eBay has ways to recognize that the purchase was made with the GSP. And when a buyer opens a case on a GSP item, eBay should direct the buyer accordingly.

You seem to be under the impression that the eBay site is a lot more robust and stable than it is.

The GSP seems to rely a lot on communication between Pitney Bowes IT systems and eBay's, and let's face it, it's not working out very well right now. The fact that tracking information appears to have to be manually input into eBay's system by someone with or contracted by Pitney Bowes is an example of that.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-24-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
Thanks for all that, PJ.

I think we need to determine the currency in which gifts_of_elegance was billed by Pitney Bowes. If she was billed in Canadian or US dollars, the "import charges" bear no resemblance to the "import charges" for a sale to Canada. Even in provinces where just GST is charged, the "import charges" come to 15.45 pounds, not dollars, and that converts to an amount considerably higher than US$ or C$15.25.

So my guess is that GoE was charged in sterling for this charge that isn't a shipping charge.

The shipping charge is for either a shipment to Canada expressed in sterling, or else it's for a shipment to the United States expressed in US dollars.

Hope I'm making some sense here as it's way past my bedtime.

----------------------------

The buyer stated that she used a delivery address in the US. She said she paid $19 for shipping which is the cost of shipping to the US in US currency so my guess is that she paid in $US. But regardless of how she paid, there are no import charges due for a sale to the states because the value is lower than their $800 threshold.

I think that she needs to add up the total charges on PayPal and her cc and if the total is about $140US then she was just charged for the item plus shipping. If the total charges are closer to $155 then she was overcharged and she should contact PayPal.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-24-2016

Just out of curiosity what were the circumstances that you were able to get your taxes refunded?

i.am.vivian · ‎07-24-2016

@marnotom! wrote:

The GSP seems to rely a lot on communication between Pitney Bowes IT systems and eBay's, and let's face it, it's not working out very well right now. The fact that tracking information appears to have to be manually input into eBay's system by someone with or contracted by Pitney Bowes is an example of that.

What do you mean exactly that it is "not working"? Please understand that I am NOT being argumentative but so many posters say how great the system is working for eBay and PB. Not for Canadian buyers obviously. I am thinking that it works "sort of" for eBay and PB because people do keep buying GSP but it looks to me like they have decided some is not enough and are coming up with all these new tricks and traps to snare the wary into buying GSP when those buyers were taking the trouble to avoid.

On another note I was wondering if the GSP would not be nearly as bothersome to Canadian buyers if the import limit was officially the $100 instead of unofficially because so many complaints are about the high cost of mailing low cost items even if they are big and take up space. I can understand eBay and PB would want to lobby the Cdn Govt to change that limit because it sure would help out the GSP and how buyers feel about it but doesn't that sound like another example of Americans telling Canadians how to run their country? This just sounds like the online e-commerce version of a pipeline & caribou argument.

marnotom! · ‎07-24-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The buyer stated that she used a delivery address in the US. She said she paid $19 for shipping which is the cost of shipping to the US in US currency so my guess is that she paid in $US. But regardless of how she paid, there are no import charges due for a sale to the states because the value is lower than their $800 threshold.

I think that she needs to add up the total charges on PayPal and her cc and if the total is about $140US then she was just charged for the item plus shipping. If the total charges are closer to $155 then she was overcharged and she should contact PayPal.

I'm thinking there may be a payment split at work here, too, which is why it's important that we get the currencies straight with this one.

marnotom! · ‎07-24-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:

The GSP seems to rely a lot on communication between Pitney Bowes IT systems and eBay's, and let's face it, it's not working out very well right now. The fact that tracking information appears to have to be manually input into eBay's system by someone with or contracted by Pitney Bowes is an example of that.

What do you mean exactly that it is "not working"? Please understand that I am NOT being argumentative but so many posters say how great the system is working for eBay and PB. Not for Canadian buyers obviously. I am thinking that it works "sort of" for eBay and PB because people do keep buying GSP but it looks to me like they have decided some is not enough and are coming up with all these new tricks and traps to snare the wary into buying GSP when those buyers were taking the trouble to avoid.

By "not working out very well" I was referring to how Pitney Bowes' computer systems seem to be communicating with eBay's. I could have worded that a bit better but I thought that was reasonably clear in the context. Apologies.

marnotom! · ‎07-24-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:

On another note I was wondering if the GSP would not be nearly as bothersome to Canadian buyers if the import limit was officially the $100 instead of unofficially because so many complaints are about the high cost of mailing low cost items even if they are big and take up space. I can understand eBay and PB would want to lobby the Cdn Govt to change that limit because it sure would help out the GSP and how buyers feel about it but doesn't that sound like another example of Americans telling Canadians how to run their country? This just sounds like the online e-commerce version of a pipeline & caribou argument.

My guess is that with this experiment eBay is trying to figure out (amongst other things) if Canadians have a bigger gripe with the GSP's import charges or shipping charges.

As far as the import limit--or de minimis--is concerned, you may want to have a read of this thread on the Seller Central board. It's only been inactive for just over a week, so if you wanted to add your thoughts to it you wouldn't be out of line to do so, IMO:

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/ANDREA-STAIRS-ON-THE-HOUSE/td-p/343535

i.am.vivian · ‎07-24-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
@i.am.vivian wrote:

On another note I was wondering if the GSP would not be nearly as bothersome to Canadian buyers if the import limit was officially the $100 instead of unofficially because so many complaints are about the high cost of mailing low cost items even if they are big and take up space. I can understand eBay and PB would want to lobby the Cdn Govt to change that limit because it sure would help out the GSP and how buyers feel about it but doesn't that sound like another example of Americans telling Canadians how to run their country? This just sounds like the online e-commerce version of a pipeline & caribou argument.

My guess is that with this experiment eBay is trying to figure out (amongst other things) if Canadians have a bigger gripe with the GSP's import charges or shipping charges.

As far as the import limit--or de minimis--is concerned, you may want to have a read of this thread on the Seller Central board. It's only been inactive for just over a week, so if you wanted to add your thoughts to it you wouldn't be out of line to do so, IMO:

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/ANDREA-STAIRS-ON-THE-HOUSE/td-p/343535

I've seen it, thanks. I didn't dare. 🙂