My First (and Last) eBay Experience

[aelb38]

I’m writing this to vent. My experience with eBay has been nothing short Kafka-esque.

I’ve been on the lookout for a while for a replacement speaker for a vintage guitar amp. Newer models won’t work as the specs have changed over time.

At the end of May, 2020, I was thrilled to find what I was looking for on the eBay. I put in a bid and won (I was the only bidder). I made the payment right away and the next day, tracking info was updated to the order. And then....nothing.

I waited...and waited...and waited, mindful of the fact that shipping times are far longer than usual due the pandemic.

However, after a month, I started to worry. The tracking # had not shown any updates (even now, there have still not been any).

The seller is in the US and I am in Canada. Having no idea which carrier it would be shipped with, an online search with the tracking info revealed that the carrier is Pitney Bowes, which handles eBay’s Global shipping program.

I tried to reach out to Pitney Bowes directly, but to no avail. There is virtually no way to get in touch with them.

And so I reached out to eBay, and that was where the REAL NIGHTMARE started.

At first, none of the representatives I talked to seemed to be able to wrap their heads around the fact that I simply wanted help in tracking the shipment.

Finally, after talking to about half a dozen representatives, I was finally told that they would communicate with Pitney Bowes to try and trace the shipment. Of course, when I called back to follow up, I was told that they there was no indication that any such request was made.

Finally, I was put through to a representative at the “Leadership Department” who told me that Pitney Bowes never received the shipment, and that I should communicate with the seller because they should have a different tracking # than the one updated to the order.

Soon after the seller provided this (other) tracking #, which showed that the item had been received at a Pitney Bowes’ facility in Kentucky, I received a message from eBay saying the shipment had been declared lost.

If you’ve read this far, you can see how this would be a very disappointing situation. But wait, IT GETS EVEN WORSE!

When I was looking for help in tracking the shipment, I had opened an “item not received” case and when I was told that eBay would look into the matter, I closed it.

What I didn’t know (and as first time eBay user, there was no way I could have known) was that, apparently, once a case has been closed, it cannot be reopened, nor can another case be opened.

THIS IS COMPLETELY ABSURD AND ARBITRARY AND WAS IN NO WAY COMMUNICATED TO ME.

Not only that, but in closing the case, I have FORFEITED EBAY’S MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. How, on earth, I was supposed to have any foreknowledge is a complete and utter mystery.

So it seems, that with the click of a mouse button, eBay have completely washed their hands of the matter.

I have escalated the issue twice to the “Appeals Department” and both times I have received the same response, namely: “After careful consideration, HA HA! YOU’RE S.O.L. BECAUSE YOU CLOSED THE CASE.

As a result, I have been left with no choice but to dispute the charge through PayPal. Off course, shortly after disputing the charge, I received an email from eBay which, in brief, says: “After careful review, we see that you have made a dispute, HA HA! EBAY IS NO LONGER RESPONSIBLE!”

If the way things are currently is any indication, I have very little faith that the issue will be resolved in a just manner. At least I can say I’ve learned my lesson: NEVER, EVER, EVER BUY ANYTHING ON EBAY.

[reallynicestamps]

You bought from a US seller.

You paid.

He shipped. You have a tracking number.

He shipped to Erlanger KY, because he uses the eBay freight forwarder Global Shipping Program which is run by Pitney Bowes.

Okay so far?

after a month, I started to worry. The tracking # had not shown any updates

The speaker had not reached Erlanger KY?

It was still with USPS or a courier?

What shipper did the seller use?

If the tracking from that shipper does not show delivery, the seller is still responsible for delivery.

Pitney Bowes never received the shipment, and that I should communicate with the seller because they should have a different tracking # than the one updated to the order....

I am concerned that the seller gave you a false tracking number. Does this appear to be on purpose? Was this tracking number on the same date as the erroneous one?

the seller provided this (other) tracking #, which showed that the item had been received at a Pitney Bowes’ facility in Kentucky,

NOW Pitney Bowes is involved.

BUT

I had opened an “item not received” case...when I was told that eBay would look into the matter, I closed it.

Ooops.

Yes. Scammers often tell naive buyers to close the case "in order to process the refund". 

EBay is NOT clear that closing the case is effectively permanent.

BUT

I have been left with no choice but to dispute the charge through PayPal.

Good!

If the seller cannot prove delivery (not shipping, DELIVERY) he is required to refund you.

Since the seller can prove delivery to PB/GSP, say so in the PP dispute.

The responsible party is now PB/GSP and they are generally pretty good about refunding. In the PP Dispute, make it clear that you have not received the speaker.

If the item actually arrives after the refund, PB/GSP does not want it back, so there is that.

Frankly, your basic error was to try to talk to human beings instead of starting with the eBay robotic Dispute.

This requires you to prove very little. Robots mostly don't care and don't need to understand. Unlike the minimum wage clerks in Customer Service.

How is the PP dispute going?

Do NOT close it until you have either the money or the speaker. ( You learned that the hard way. Ugh.)

If you back your PP account with a credit card, and IF (only if) the PP dispute does not succeed, you can also try the card's chargeback provisions.

[reallynicestamps]

Since you now have what appears to be the correct tracking number and that shows delivery to Erlanger,  normally GSP will send you a new tracking number which starts with UPAxxxxxxxxxxx.

Have you recieved that?

If so go here:   https://parceltracking.pb.com/app/#/dashboard/

and enter the UPA number, which should tell you where the speaker is at the moment, or at least where it was last recorded.

[aelb38]

Hi,

Thanks so much for your quick and highly informative response! I wish I had posted here before communicating with eBay.  It would have saved a ton of time and grief.

I put the dispute through just before my rant, so it's still in progress.

I believe that you are correct in your assessment that PB/GSP is at fault, here, and not the seller.  I have never had to dispute a charge before. I did inform PP that the shipment was lost by PB/GSP.  I tried to update the dispute with the seller's tracking # (for confirmation that it was received by PB/GSP), but I'm not able to. I tried to reach PP customer support but all their agents are currently offline. 

I will try again first thing tomorrow morning.

Much gratitude!

[happydaysminimart]

I feel you! Similar thing happened to me.

I am disappointed that ebay did not advise me that a case will never be able to re-open if it is closed (nor a new case on the seller).

I am here to vent on a seller "Newdisc4" because they asked me to close a case on them and then they will ship me a replacement. I was scammed by Ebay, the seller and Paypal. None of them are willing to truly help.

Thanks for the read!

[reallynicestamps]

@happydayminimart

I assume you opened an eBay Dispute but were fooled into closing it on a promise of a replacement.

Those promises are usually scams, as you have learned.

However, I don't understand how you were let down by Paypal.

Did you after realizing the scam, open a new Dispute, this time with Paypal?

You have 180 days from Payment (not delivery) to open that in the PP Resolution Centre at the top of your PP account page.

Losing or closing an eBay dispute should have no effect on opening a PP dispute.

And all you want is your money, never never never accept an offer of replacement. Even if something is sent, you will be pushed past the eBay deadline and there is no reason to believe that the replacement would be any better than the original.

If you are more than six months past the Paypal deadline, you still may be able to use the chargeback policy of the credit card you use to back your PP account. Phone the 1-800 number on the back of your card. Policies differ from card to card.

[reallynicestamps]

@aelb38 

I did inform PP that the shipment was lost by PB/GSP. I tried to update the dispute with the seller's tracking #

Did the seller's tracking number show delivery to the Erlanger plant?

If it did not, the seller is still responsible.

I'm still doubtful about the seller's bona fides because of the two tracking numbers.  Which one shows delivery to Erlanger?

What was the date of that delivery?

If it was accepted , PB should have sent you a new tracking number.

Have they?

At the moment (and in the past too, actually) most "lost" shipments were delayed and at this time delays can be weeks not days.

[aelb38]

Thanks again for the follow up. Let me try to clarify:

The auction ended on May 24.

On May 26th, a UPA tracking # for the order was generated in my eBay account. The status is: "Tracking number provided". This is the only tracking # that has officially been attached to the order and, from May 26th until the present, the status has remained unchanged.

On June 28th, at eBay's prompting, I contacted the seller and obtained a USPS tracking#. This tracking # has never been attached to the order in any official capacity. I only got it by messaging the seller.

As per the USPS website, the first entry for this tracking # is on May 26 (same date as the UPA tracking #) and reads: " USPS expects item for mailing". There are subsequent updates on May 27, 28 and 29 with the final entry being: "Your item was delivered at 6:50 am on May 29, 2020 in ERLANGER, KY 41025"

Therefore:

- Did the seller's tracking number show delivery to the Erlanger plant?

Yes

- Which one shows delivery to Erlanger?

The USPS tracking # provided by the seller.

- What was the date of that delivery?

May 29

- If it was accepted , PB should have sent you a new tracking number.

Have they?

No, there has only ever been one UPA tracking # attached to the purchase. Both UPA and USPS tracking # were generated on the same day (May 26). 

Is it normal for both tracking #s to be created at the same time, or is the UPA # usually only generated once the parcel is received in Erlanger?  Also, if there are 2 (or maybe even 3 or 4...who knows) tracking #'s, why don't they appear on my eBay account?

As for the PP dispute, I messaged the seller's tracking # to PP and asked for it to be added to the dispute.

[femmefan1946]

Is it normal for both tracking #s to be created at the same time,

No.

I find it odd that the seller had two tracking numbers.

That the first time the USPS number is recorded is the same as its delivery date , odd but explicable. The postal clerk didn't record it when it was dropped off, but it was recorded thereafter.

or is the UPA # usually only generated once the parcel is received in Erlanger?

One package one number. 

I wonder if the seller did send a replacement without telling you.

I messaged the seller's tracking # to PP and asked for it to be added to the dispute.
The PP dispute already has the UPA/GSP number, right?
Because the seller is no longer involved once the USPS number shows delivery to Erlanger.

All of which comes down to, in my opinion.

The GSP has had the package since May 29th.

It is now July 5th.

Since the GSP has not shown delivery (not shipping or tracking, delivery) it's time to escalate the Dispute to a Claim.

I'm still not sure what the seller was up to with two different tracking numbers. But that part is over.

[marnotom!]

My experience with GSP-forwarded items is that the Pitney Bowes "UPAA" tracking code is created at the time of the sale, not when the item reaches Kentucky.  So having two tracking codes--the Pitney Bowes one and the one for the seller's shipment to Kentucky--is perfectly normal for the first leg of a GSP-forwarded item.

What's less clear to me is whether the tracking code the seller provided is actually for the OP's item.  I'm also not sure if the buyer has used the Pitney Bowes tracking site as suggested early in the thread.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't have provided PayPal with the tracking code that the seller had provided.  If someone handling the claim is not familiar with the workings of the GSP, they're going to see that the item was delivered to Kentucky and close the claim in the belief that the item has reached its final destination.

[aelb38]

Thanks so much to everyone for reading and taking the time to help. This whole experience has been a series of firsts for me.

I have just received confirmation that PayPal has ruled in my favour and I will be refunded in full By Pitney Bowes.

While I’m glad that I am getting my money back and also, that it is coming from PB and not the seller (who is blameless), it is bittersweet.

As I said in my original post, the item was a rare find and I’m not sure when I will see another again.

I guess I will have to take the good with the bad.

My sincerest thanks to everyone for your help.

[reallynicestamps]

FWIW - If the item is in transit, and most "not received" shipments are really just delayed, very very delayed sometimes, then when it is delivered, no one wants it back.
Not the seller, who has been paid.

Not GSP/PB whose costs were covered by insurance.

We'll see.