01-07-2013 06:02 PM
The sabotage of a CN Rail crossing signal during an aboriginal protest and rail line blockade near Belleville, Ont. over the weekend should be seen as an act of terror, says one security expert.
"This is a low-level, low-grade form of terrorism," said John Thompson, with the Mackenzie Institute think-tank. "It's not as dramatic as car bombings and so on and so forth, but ... the use of vandalism is a form of violence."
CN Police says it's investigating after a group of Idle No More protesters allegedly activated a crossing signal Saturday afternoon, and lit a fire on the tracks.
The blockade within Mohawk territory also grabbed the attention of Ontario Superior Court Judge David Brown.
He issued an injunction against the blockade on Saturday, but said Monday he's mystified by the refusal of Ontario Provincial Police to enforce it before protesters dispersed.
Brown also questions the judgment of an officer who said in a sworn statement that it was "too dangerous" to enforce the order on 15 protesters.
"That kind of passivity by the police leads me to doubt that a future exists in this province for the use of court injunctions in cases of public demonstrations," said Brown.
Thompson says infrastructure such as railways and pipelines remain vulnerable to a "tiny militant minority" of aboriginal protesters because of their rural location.
"We can't secure our infrastructure and they've known for a long time that they can tamper with things as they choose," he said.
http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/01/07/rail-line-tampering-is-terrorism-security-expert
01-07-2013 06:19 PM
LOL....seriously....you must be kidding!!!!
The Institute is a right-wing fanatical group. Run by JC Thompson who is so far out in left field he warned Canadians about people wearing bulky clothing and that suicide bombers wear several sets of underwear to protect their groins for their 'gifts' they will receive in the afterlife. He has no idea that underwear doesn't protect you from C-4.
Personally I'm glad Thompson is in an institution although he should have a padded room.
Need my backhoe?
01-07-2013 06:28 PM
"That kind of passivity by the police leads me to doubt that a future exists in this province for the use of court injunctions in cases of public demonstrations," said Brown.
I don't know why Judge Brown would be so mystified. Vancouver hockey rioters were pretty much left to wreak havoc unimpeded by both the Police and the Justice System. Perhaps the noble Judge should take a closer look at the inconsequential sentences he and his peers mete out to repeat offenders with lengthy records. And Justice for Some, um, One orTwo.
01-07-2013 07:04 PM
Vancouver hockey rioters were pretty much left to wreak havoc unimpeded by both the Police and the Justice System.
Due in most part due to the inability of the police to anticipate potential problems, and then not being able to put enough officers into the area to safely (safe for the cops) control the situation.
Perhaps the noble Judge should take a closer look at the inconsequential sentences he and his peers mete out to repeat offenders with lengthy records.
The judges, to a degree, are handcuffed (no pun intended) by the sentencing guidelines - and the allowable maximums for many serious crimes. When you murder someone, they can't sentence you to hang (cheaper for the tax payers). They can't sentence you to life. They can't sentence you to 10 consecutive 25 year sentences if you murder ten people. Just one lousy 25 year sentence without parole.
I knew a fellow who sexually assaulted and murdered his girlfriend's 2 year old son. He'll be out when he is 49. He should never get out.
01-07-2013 07:33 PM
I was a member of a volunteer FD at the time the G8 was being planned, and attended a FD meeting where high ranking Toronto Police and Toronto FD gave an information seminar. I was dumfounded to learn that IF a group of anarchists decided to trash the downtown and smash windows, little would have been done to subdue and apprehend them, untill after the fact. Via surveillance video. Shades of Vancouver.
Instead of being pro-active, they were gonna be re-active (or post-active, lol). And these "Experts" with all their experience and training still fumbled the ball in Toronto during the G-20. Fortunately, the G-8 was a yawn. The Experts cited riots in Europe, and how security forces operate over there. It sure sounded like they knew what they were talking about, but at the end of the day,in Canada, it is the protesters / demonstrators / rioters that get to set and execute their agenda, as if it is a football game and the anarchists are in possession of the ball.
01-07-2013 09:34 PM
01-08-2013 08:55 AM
Yawn
Does that mean you support terrorism by the abos ?
01-08-2013 10:46 AM
Instead of being pro-active, they were gonna be re-active (or post-active, lol).
That reminds me of the recent results for the RIDE programs in Ontario. The number of people caught has gone up.
This, too, is reactive policing. Yes, it might be a bit of a deterent to some of us, but clearly not for the people who are still drinking and driving.
I remember a dance at a community center in a small town outside of London. The OPP sat a cruiser in front of the door. People leaving the dance were offered an opportunity to "blow" before they got into their cars. Quite a few people took them up on it - and quite a few people walked home or took a cab that night. Even those who thought they were "OK" to drive got a big surprise.
For those who didn't take the hint, there was another cruiser parked up the street stopping those who chose to drive. Several of those people got an even bigger surprise.
To me, this was pro-active policing.
01-08-2013 11:36 AM
Does that mean you support terrorism
This is not “””””terrorism”””””” Gheesh!!!!! People love to throw that word around these days for ‘effect’. Nothing was harmed.
I couldn’t figure out why someone would go off the deep end about this until I read up on who said it and Thompson from the ‘institute’ has a long history of making money from fear mongering every chance he gets.
And ‘terrorism’ is all in how one looks at it. As I have said many times in here, the first use of the word terrorism was what the British called the American Revolutionaries. Now those rebels are heroes. The same with the IRA…..terrorists….. now heroes. It depends on the ‘cause’ one is fighting for and if those in power are not listening or playing games. That is what makes once rational and peaceful people say ‘enough is enough’. In the case of the Native people….well they’ve been waiting for justice and fairness for about 300 years.
Personally I think that the cops have for the most part handled the situations very well. Let the people demonstrate and then bring the situations to a peaceful resolution. I know local cops who agree with the Native people and they hate being between a rock and a hard spot with their jobs on one side and their personal moral feelings on the other. Then there was the cop who went to the Native protest in Sarnia and sat at the big drum with the Native drummers. That!….was a smart man. He gained respect for himself and his local detachment.
However……that’s not what a lot of gung-ho computer warriors want. They want to see violence and all the thrills and chills to break up the boredom of their lives.
It kind of reminds me of that movie First Blood and the Colonel tells the local County Mounties to defuse the situation because if they don’t they’re starting a war that they can’t win.
No one wants an Oka again…..and believe me, the Native people are not afraid, not an ounce, and they will die for their cause as many other people of many other nations have done all through history to fight injustice and oppression.
To me, this was pro-active policing.
Interesting approach…..where did this happen? I only ask because I once brought the idea up to a local OPP up here and he said they couldn’t do that and they had checked with a lawyer. He liked the idea as well especially when it came to what we call the ‘Stag and Does’ in the area (usually major booze ups with young people) and the Christmas parties ….but he said their hands were tied, especially being on private property offering the breath tests.
01-08-2013 11:48 AM
Interesting approach…..where did this happen? I only ask because I once brought the idea up to a local OPP up here and he said they couldn’t do that and they had checked with a lawyer. He liked the idea as well especially when it came to what we call the ‘Stag and Does’ in the area (usually major booze ups with young people) and the Christmas parties ….but he said their hands were tied, especially being on private property offering the breath tests.
your just a fountain of knowledge!! someone brings up PSW workers and you just happened to be talkinr to 4 of them that day-someone brings up something medical you just happen to be talking to a nurse as you read it. Someone brings up policing and you just happen to have asked a police officer that exact question!!--LOL
If the cops are doing their job they walk into this party(were said minors are drinking) and they shut it down and YES they can. each place has a liquor license and if they serve just 1 minor the police can and DO shut places down!
But I am sure you asked a cop about that just mear minutes ago!
01-08-2013 02:45 PM
just a fountain of knowledge!!
Yeah I am. Glad to help you out....anytime I can.
The PSWs …I know some who are customers and I know a nurse who works at a nursing home and I know most of the PSWs there. Maybe you should get out more.
The nurse …well many here know who she is, it’s no secret.
Someone brings up policing and you just happen to have asked a police officer that exact question!!
Yeah and your point? You see mikey, you live in the BIG city and no one knows anyone. People can live in an apartment building and use the elevator every day and few even know their neighbours. The same applies to people who live in homes next to each other.
Out here in the country….everyone knows everyone. Want to talk to a cop….they can be found either at one particular restaurant or one coffee shop. At one time the cops here stayed in the jurisdiction for a long time but in the past decade or so they are always moving and one has to keep up with the newbies. Most of the cops know me for other reasons as well. When a new cops starts in a rural area they are always told who’s who……part of getting to know the people. And speaking of cops….my accountant is an ex-OPP staff sergeant. When he retired he was driving his wife crazy being at home with nothing to do so because he always had a knack for numbers she suggested he take the course and get his degree….which he did.
You really need to meet more people, it comes in handy in life.
If the cops are doing their job they walk into this party(were said minors are drinking) and they shut it down and YES they can. each place has a liquor license and if they serve just 1 minor the police can and DO shut places down!
I didn’t suggest any of that! Where do you come up with this? You don’t even know what a Stag and Doe is do you? It’s a party where all the people in the community are invited to celebrate the upcoming wedding of a couple…the Stag….and the ‘Doe’. They advertise it on signs around the area and even rent huge portable signs to put on corners……everyone is Welcome!!! The attendance is so large they rent a ‘licensed’ hall at an arena or other facility. The tickets to get in, part of the booze profits or even food profits go to the future newlyweds. The arena or hall follow all the rules of the liquor code and no underage people drink or are served. The bartenders either work for the arena or the Lions Club or the local Legion. Cops do Not come in and harass the people because……….they also have to live in the community as well. (although some go to the party themselves)
But……….there have been cases in the past where ‘legal age’ guests of the Stag and Doe have drank too much. A few have got into accidents (nothing major) or ended up in a ditch, or were nailed by a cop on patrol. I was trying to save the possibilities of those problems happening because ‘young’ people often do not think and my question to him was could they park at the arena or hall and get people to test before they get into their vehicles. I didn’t want to see kids make a stupid mistake and get into trouble either with an accident or a trip to court. It was that simple.
If you started a thread about Nuclear Fission….I’m really shot listed on the Nuclear scientists I know.
But don’t start a thread about autopsies….I do know a coroner. Well two actually, if you count his son.
01-08-2013 02:59 PM
The sabotage of a CN Rail crossing signal - Nothing was harmed.
Well, maybe the railway spent a few bucks fixing the switch. But what if it hadn't been found? I have seen the results of a train hitting a car full of teens. It was not pretty. Although many years ago, the images are fixed in my head.
It the switch had not been found and had it not worked when it was supposed to - one hates to think of the consequences.
01-08-2013 03:03 PM
However……that’s not what a lot of gung-ho computer warriors want. They want to see violence and all the thrills and chills to break up the boredom of their lives.
It is good press for the Natives if they can provoke the authorities into acting against them. If they remain passive in the face of police action, they will end up with another martyr for the cause. Dudley George comes to mind.
I don't want violence used against anyone. The results are always the same. A family ends up suffering needlessly.
01-08-2013 03:05 PM
To me, this was pro-active policing. Interesting approach…..where did this happen?
It happened in Thamesford about 20 years ago - and I understand it has happened there a few times since. It was at a Lion's Club fundraiser (with bar).
01-08-2013 03:07 PM
To me, this was pro-active policing. Interesting approach…..where did this happen?
Forgot to mention that this was legal because no one was required to"blow" - simply offered the opportunity to do so.
01-08-2013 03:45 PM
Well, maybe the railway spent a few bucks fixing the switch. But what if it hadn't been found?
Just going by what your OP said in the article….it says nothing about a switch being taken away or thrown away. All it says is a switch was ‘activated’.
It is good press for the Natives if they can provoke the authorities into acting against them. If they remain passive in the face of police action, they will end up with another martyr for the cause. Dudley George comes to mind.
Oh come’on puck. If they wanted to ‘provoke’ there would be a 1000 ways to achieve that! ….but they didn’t…..because they did Not want to. It was peaceful.
And lets not get into Dudley. I knew Dudley well and knew his uncles and I see members of his family about once a month. Dudley was unarmed and murdered by a gung-ho cop, acting sergeant Ken "Tex" Deane, who was later was convicted of criminal negligence causing death. The judge rejected Deane's claim of Dudley being armed based on evidence and stated: "I find, sir, that you were not honest in presenting this version of events to the Ontario Provincial Police investigators. You were not honest in presenting this version of events to the Special Investigations Unit of the Province of Ontario. You were not honest in maintaining this ruse before this court."
After a subsequent Police Act Hearing, Deane was convicted of Discredible Conduct and ordered to resign in 7 days or be fired.
Deane died on February 25, 2006, in a car accident when his vehicle collided with a truck near Prescott. Adios ‘Tex’.
Karma.
It happened in Thamesford about 20 years ago - and I understand it has happened there a few times since. It was at a Lion's Club fundraiser (with bar).
Sleepy little community. I’m going there to see a customer in the next couple of weeks as soon as they are back from vacation. I’ll have to ask if that is still being done.
Forgot to mention that this was legal because no one was required to
Well there was this woman I knew and.
Oh, sorry, wrong subject!
01-09-2013 08:50 AM
You see mikey, you live in the BIG city and no one knows anyone. People can live in an apartment building and use the
Going to have to go check my "notes" I thought "mikey" lived in the country???
01-09-2013 08:52 AM
01-09-2013 09:17 AM
Interesting program that aired on AM980 last night. They were talking about: who does Harper actually negotiate with.
There is the AFN, and its duly elected leader, Shawn Atleo. He was elected by a majority of 600 band chiefs. However, many do not like his one issue focus (education) and his non-militant stand on most issues.
Then there is the self-appointed leader, Chief Spence. She seems to think that she has become the focus and the spokesperson (although she has stopped talking, other than to issue press releases). Her latest missive apparently deals with pollution in the oil sands of Alberta.
Then there is Idle No More. They are a loosely knit group with no "apparent" leadership. Do they even want to negotiate or are they enamoured by the "protest" experience. It is cool to protest and think that you are "sticking it" to the government. Speculation was that this group will continue to protest, no matter what comes of the meetings with Harper.
In the past few years, more than 60 bands have decided to forego the Inidan Act and strike agreements with the government. They are mostly the "haves" of the Native world. They want the right to control themselves and to control their lands and resources. Harper has been happy to deal with them as it whittles away (and possibly undermines) the larger ongoing problem.
Now add to that the Metis and non-status natives who seem to be well organized and well represented. They have won a 13 year court battle - although many aspects of the ruling will be further tested in the courts.
A sticky siutation.
01-09-2013 09:57 AM
Hopes fade that talks with PM will end Idle No More protests
Hope that Friday’s face-to-face discussions between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and first nations leaders will end protests and disruptions across Canada is fast disintegrating.
Idle No More organizers will hold their own Friday meeting for chiefs that were not invited to the talks on that day with Mr. Harper.
And Governor-General David Johnston announced on Tuesday that he would not be at Mr. Harper’s working meeting with key Assembly of First Nations leaders. As a result, Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence, who called for the meeting in first place, said she might not go either.
Although some chiefs say the leaders of the country’s more than 630 first nations are united in their determination to exert their treaty rights, it is clear that there are divides about how that should be achieved.
Mr. Harper told reporters on Tuesday that he is aware of the great challenges in some aboriginal communities, and that he will continue, through legislation and meetings with first nations leaders, to identify ways to move forward.
That means “the creation of growth, of jobs and long-term prosperity for all communities,” Mr. Harper said. “We do have, for the first time in our history, economic development on a large scale occurring near where many aboriginal people live. We have a shortage of labour and lots of opportunity.”
Shawn Atleo, the national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, met with other chiefs on Tuesday to talk about what they hope to get out of Friday’s meeting. Their agenda said they would look at “priority outcomes,” the time frames for achieving them, and the “lack of federal mandate.” But even as the first nations leaders were planning strategy, the woman who initiated the discussion indicated that she may not show up.
Chief Theresa Spence of Attawapiskat has consumed only fish broth and herbal tea for four weeks, a hunger strike she started in a bid to force a meeting with Mr. Harper and the Governor-General.
Mr. Johnson had not indicated whether he would be at the meeting. However, the Governor-General’s office said on Tuesday that he would not be there because it is a working session with government on public policy issues. Governors-general do not get involved in day-to-day government matters.
Danny Metatawabin, a spokesman for Ms. Spence, said Mr. Johnston’s absence will be a problem. “We remain steadfast that we wanted the Governor-General to be there to assist with building the nation-to-nation treaty relationship,” he said. “If that is the case [that Mr. Johnston will not be present], she may not be there.”
Other first nations leaders were less concerned. Stan Louttit, the Grand Chief of the Mushkegowuk Council, which includes Attawapiskat, said the meeting will proceed.
Earlier this month, Mr. Alteo invited Mr. Harper and Mr. Johnston to meet with native leaders on Jan. 24 – the anniversary of last year’s Crown-first-nations gathering. That meeting is expected to go ahead.
“The G-G should and is going to be available for the second Crown-first nations gathering later this month,” Mr. Louttit said in an e-mail.
Mr. Harper will not attend. Mr. Johnston did not respond to questions about whether he would go.
But the government could be faced with a chief on a hunger strike who is garnering international attention.
Meanwhile, some of the women behind the protest group Idle No More, which has spawned more than a month of rallies, blockades and demonstrations across Canada, are holding their own one-day “national dialogue” with chiefs on Friday in Fort Qu’Appelle, Sask., to discuss water, land, sovereignty and treaty relationships.
“We planned to give voice to grassroots people and chiefs who were not invited to the meeting in Ottawa,” said Sheela McLean, one of the organizers.
In Toronto, Premier Dalton McGuinty said he is pleased that Mr. Harper will meet with the first nations leaders on Friday.
“I think it’s high time for us to find a way to set before the Canadian people and our aboriginal communities a plan to achieve measurable progress,” Mr. McGuinty told reporters on Tuesday. “I hope this sparks the beginning of that kind of conversation.”
The Ontario government has offered to help aboriginal leaders provide better education on reserves, an area where it has far greater expertise than Ottawa does, Mr. McGuinty said. However, he added, such an initiative cannot proceed without federal funds.