COVID losses not as bad as it feels but OHHH the accounting!!!

[ricarmic]

Woke up today to yet another COVID delayed INR request.

It seems like I get them every day, it feels very discouraging to be getting them "all the time". 

So like I like to do I decided to look up the facts and the facts help turn the frown upside down as I like to say.

Since mid April:

10 INRs due to late arriving items (which is 1.6% of items)

 5 items later repaid after arrival (so far, which is 0.08% of items, less than 1%)

==  

 5 items lost and not yet repaid (so far, which is 0.08% of items, less than 1%)

Most of you will recall that I put out my annual loss rates each year and even at the current number it is no worse than "normal".

I suspect that more will eventually repay, as will more be lost, but it is not as bad as it feels after one looks at the stats. (remember I am lucky to be selling in the "stamp world", generally great buyers)

It is unfortunate that our human nature tends to lead us to remember only the "bad" stuff.  My sales are WAYYY higher than normal, they have been since covid began, so overall things are great!

The communication/accounting impact of the INRs is a major pain though because of the discussion around the refund and repayment portion and and all the resulting sales, insurance, tax doing and undoing that results for Canadian buyers!

Anyway that's the long version, the good news for me at least is that in reality it is not anywhere near as bad as it feels!

[silverpinups]

How are buyers going to refund sellers for items arriving after INR claims have been filed when Managed Payments kicks in?  

[femmefan1946]

tyler@ebay  A useful question.

How are buyers going to refund sellers for INR's when Managed Payments kicks in?

[pjcdn2005]

The same way they do now? Seller sends a PP invoice and buyer pays.

[femmefan1946]

And eBay, does not get a fee on that.

Mwah hah hah hah haaaa

[silverpinups]

The same way they do now? Seller sends a PP invoice and buyer pays.

What if the buyer originally paid with Apple Pay or Google Pay and doesn't have a PayPal account? 

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

The easiest way to do this is to make a "private" blank listing for the buyer that is the same price+shipping as the original listing and request that the buyer pay you by purchasing the "private" listing.

The buyer already has, and presumably is happy with the item. So buyer protection with the listing blank shouldn't be an issue.

It is a hassle, but it is the easiest way to do it without Paypal. Keep in mind, not all buyers pay with Paypal right now. Even without managed payments, some buyers will pay with a credit/Visa debit directly on the eBay checkout.

[femmefan1946]

@ilikehockeyjerseys 

EBay fees? PP fees?

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

My post is assuming that the seller resolved the original INR request with a refund, and that it wasn't resolved by eBay. Admittedly, I am not completely up to date with when fees are credited, but it seems like I've been credited with at least the eBay fees when I've resolved a case. (Not sure about Paypal fees, but that will be irrelevant with managed payments)

So the fees charged on the second "private" transaction, should be the same as the ones refunded, at least on the eBay side of things.

One hitch is that if it is a US customer, the price from their side of things can end up being slightly different if you list in CAD, because of currency conversion. If 10 CAD is 7.34 USD today, maybe it's 7.41 two months from now. Usually, if you mention this to a customer, they won't care about a minor difference in the conversion when re-paying.

I'm not trying to defend this system. It's a huge hassle. I don't get why something as simple as mutually re-paying for an item is not possible. But this is the best way I know of to handle a re-payment when for one reason or another, Paypal isn't an option.

[tyler@ebay]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

tyler@ebay  A useful question.

How are buyers going to refund sellers for INR's when Managed Payments kicks in?

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Hahaha - @femmefan1946 - making me work hard today! 😛

I don't have a great answer for you on this, since managed payments isn't designed to allow post-transaction invoicing. But I think in general you have a few options, both of which have already been suggested. 

1. I think listing a 'placeholder' item is probably the best way to go, and probably the one I'd have to endorse if you were asking me for an answer and we weren't looking at a hypothetical. Personally I prefer to list an item at a greatly inflated price, add best offer and ask the buyer to submit an offer for the previous price. They do so, I accept the offer, and everything is (mostly) hunky-dory.

2. You could, if it's within 30 days of the transaction, communicate via eBay message and ask for the buyer's payment info to invoice them outside of the checkout process. I don't love that currently, but as others point out, it loses effectiveness the further into managed payments we get because buyers may not have paid with a financial instrument that supports invoicing.

Both of these options have drawbacks. Option 1 carries a risk of getting a shipping ding if the listing was set up with a shipping method and not 'local pick up only'. Option 2 carries a risk of being evaluated for off site sales which no one in this situation needs. 

[femmefan1946]

I'll have to think about those methods later. I had a cataract operation this morning and whatever they gave me was I'm not supposed to operate heavy machinery, like my brain.

Both seem needlessly complicated and to require the customer do something that really only benefits me.

Not all refunds are friendly.

[38e_avenue]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Woke up today to yet another COVID delayed INR request.

It seems like I get them every day, it feels very discouraging to be getting them "all the time". 

So like I like to do I decided to look up the facts and the facts help turn the frown upside down as I like to say.

Thank you for your post! So I am not alone here ... 😉

I also sell much more than usual - so let us look at the bright side only! 😉

I feel a little bit better now, after 3 INR charges back today morning ...... eh .... 

There are buyers and "buyers". Some wait 10 weeks without complaining, the worst (all my open INR cases) opened just 1 week after estimated arrival date ... ;-(