Ebay agents are so bots

[rocketscollectibles]

I shared past month that ebay covered my refund on a item not received case where buyer had suspicious activities. I just got 2 cases from a same buyer so i contacted ebay about it to ask if i was under seller's protection against that buyer. I got told yes: 

Agent #1: 
You are protected by our seller's protection, I'm giving you the assurance for this. Once you reach us back. The next agent will definitely know what to do.

The agent gave me a reference number and assured me i was protected. To let that case open and ask ebay to step in. Then my buyer jumped at 12:01am to ask ebay to step in and forced refund. No surprise, refunded. No tracking uploaded. So i contacted again and asked, don't i was under seller's protection!? 

Agent #2:
In this case, you have nothing to worry since I can see here as well that you are fully protected with our seller protection.
In this case, you can definitely appeal the case using this link:

Again i'm told i am under seller's protection. And to appeal. So i do and provide reference number. Appeal team decided to still reject for no tracking uploaded. I understand, but i got told twice i was protected, without tracking. What is going on there. 

I re contacted appeal team and they removed my selling defect (prooving that i was INDEED, considered under seller's protection). But just keep saying i have no tracking. 

Both agents were sayin i was under seller's protection and like ebay would cover that case, like the one i had previous month. But buyer forcing system and ebay did not covered, and appeal team rejected for no tracking. So messed up.  

[brettjet38]

"I shared past month that ebay covered my refund on a item not received case where buyer had suspicious activities. I just got 2 cases from a same buyer so i contacted ebay about it to ask if i was under seller's protection against that buyer. I got told yes:"

Why are you still selling to a Buyer who has opened claims in the past against you?

"Both agents were sayin i was under seller's protection and like ebay would cover that case, like the one i had previous month. But buyer forcing system and ebay did not covered, and appeal team rejected for no tracking."

If you DO NOT HAVE TRACKING for ANY shipment made to ANY BUYER & they open a claim you will lose, according to the eBay Terms & Conditions.

So you ship to a Buyer with whom you have had issues in the past, and then again they make claims against you because they did not also receive these items. And you expect eBay to cover the loss?

You should never have shipped to that Buyer again anything without using a tracked shipping service (something you are averse to), I am not surprised at all that eBay has rejected your appeal.

Maybe, just maybe it is time to rethink your shipping methods.

[rocketscollectibles]

You fully misunderstood

1. This actual buyer purchased 2 items in 3 days, claimed both packages. The other case is a case i refer to from past month

2. I left case open because agent told me i was covered. I appealed because second agent confirmed i was covered

Do you ever read or you're just too busy spitting hate on anything you can 

[femmefan1946]

EBay does seem to be moving to more AI/bots even on the previously reliable social media Chats.

This may be a money saver or it may be in response to all those angry Americans who get furious if the clerk has an accent.

           --If someone speaks English with an accent, they speak at least one more language than you, Yankee.

However, when we* ship without tracking we take the chance that there will not be an Item Not Received (INR) claim, because whether it's a phone clerk, a bot, or a rep on Chat, we will lose the Claim when we cannot supply the tracking number showing Delivery.

No surprise, refunded. No tracking uploaded. So i contacted again and asked, don't i was under seller's protection!?

And that is why you lost.

The clerk may have meant that you should upload the tracking information (which you don't have in any case) in order to win.

It is possible, since your own written English is not perfect, that you misunderstood them.

Again, that's why the Chats are better. They provide a transcript which we can read to see if we actually understood what was being said.

Transcripts are also useful for "encouraging" reps to honour the advice of their colleagues.

But again, no tracking, no Seller Protection.

Sorry.

* I have rarely used tracking , and will continue to ignore it for Canadian buyers. My customers like to follow instructions and are very honest.
YMMV.

But I had two shipments returned today which were shipped as Letter Mail to the USA and which I will be resending tomorrow as Tracked Packet USA. 

Poot.

I'm gonna be printing more TP/USA labels in future.

[rocketscollectibles]

It was on chat. I have all transcripts. I even have a reference number the first agent told me to use for next agents. The quotes i posted from agents are copy pasted from transcripts. There was no misunderstanding on my end i told the agent several times i had no tracking and to confirm. The second agent was also fully awared i had no tracking and confirmed seeing i was fully covered. I quote the second agent after buyer asked a step in: you have nothing to worry since I can see here as well that you are fully protected with our seller protection. In this case, you can definitely appeal the case. 

But again, no tracking, no Seller Protection.

Sorry.

This is not true. I shared two stories past months where ebay covered me in item not received cases without tracking. This is hapening when a buyer abused of money back guarantee. This is exactly why i contacted ebay: to know if it was the case here, and as said, they confirmed yes. I would never have left those cases open otherwise without tracking. 

I feel like i'm very misunderstood. 

[brettjet38]

No, it is you who are misunderstanding, so I will elaborate more clearly...

A - NO TRACKING means you lose if a Buyer opens an INR claim and you have NO TRACKING.

B - NO TRACKING does not mean "No Refunds".

C - If a Buyer opens an INR & you have NO TRACKING, you lose.

D - These RULES & Policies about shipping NO TRACKING apply to ALL of US, every single one, you included.

E - If you insist on shipping items with NO TRACKING then you better make sure you have your "Cookie Jar" insurance pot well stocked with $$$.

F - If you ship items with NO TRACKING, and the Buyer opens an ITEM NOT RECEIVED, you have to upload a valid TRACKING NUMBER in order to win the case, it says so all over the TERM & CONDITIONS. 

https://www.ebay.ca/help/buying/default/appeal-ebays-decision-case-buyers?id=4039

2 min article

Appeal the outcome of a case as a buyer

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appealing-decision-seller?id=4369

2 min article

Appeal the outcome of a case as a seller

If you don't agree with our resolution when we've stepped in to help resolve an issue, you can appeal by providing new information within 30 calendar days of the case being closed.

Are you a buyer looking to appeal a case? Read our article on appealing a case as a buyer

Whenever we're asked to step in and help with a return or an item that didn't arrive, we aim to resolve it in the fairest way possible. Sometimes, though, you might not agree with our resolution, especially if there's additional information you can provide for us to consider.

When you appeal, we'll review the case and any new information you provide, and come back to you with a final decision. We'll normally get back to you within 48 hours, though occasionally it can take a little longer.

Tip
If you've received feedback from a buyer that you don't think is accurate or fair, take a look at our article about disputing feedback.

Information you may need when appealing

You'll need to provide new, additional information about your case. This can include things like:

• Tracking details showing the buyer received the item before the case was closed. If the order's total cost (total of item(s), shipping and tax) is $750 or more, signature confirmation is required
• Proof that a returned item was delivered to the wrong address or lost in the mail
• Documents showing the item matches the listing description
• Proof the buyer received a refund before the case was closed

Tip
You can appeal at any time within 30 calendar days of the case being closed.

How to appeal a case

You can appeal cases that were "closed without seller resolution" from the transaction defect report in your Seller Dashboard.

What are you not understanding? It is very simple as many posters keep repeating the same refrain "You shipped with NO TRACKING, so even if you appeal and you have NO TRACKING you WILL LOSE the appeal." or things along the same lines...

It is NOT I who is misunderstanding the eBay rules, that I can assure you....

[brettjet38]

I learn something new everytime I come on these borads, unfortunalty others do not, now I feel a poot coming on...

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

poot

/po͞ot/

INFORMAL•US

verb

break wind.

"somebody just pooted"

noun

1. an act of breaking wind.

   "I feel a poot coming on"

[pjcdn2005]

Which thread are you referring to where you won a case in similar circumstances?  Did you think you were covered because the buyer said they were missing 2 separate envelopes and if so, has that happened before?

  I agree that it is odd (suspicious) that a buyer would not receive 2 items sent separately but I'm not sure why any agent (bot or not) would accept that as proof and say that you didn't have to refund.  

[rocketscollectibles]

Hapenned in a chargeback case where buyer was banned after sale. Claimed not recognizing the transaction. One more time hapened in a item not received case but i did not contact ebay in time. I got told after i refunded that i was not found responsible in that case. Basically it was noted as i'm not responsible but because i sent refund by myself, i lost the money. This is why i contacted ebay that time, before refund. And just followed what they said that i was covered

and say that you didn't have to refund

When that happen, buyer is refunded, it's just that ebay cover you and dont take from your funds

I agree that it is odd (suspicious) that a buyer would not receive 2 items sent separately

It's a clear fraud case for me. Buyer asked for discount and i declined, then purchase 2 items on 2 different days (like he waited confirmation on the first that there was no tracking). Not the first time i see that pattern of claiming INR on declined offers, like buyer want a vengeance. Then he's a seller and opened case talking about being aware of delays (but still force refunds instead of contacting). He also got caught by another seller to claim not receiving and resell the item, seller left a false positive. Buyer jumped at 12:01 both cases to ask ebay to step in too, like he did not want to leave me time to contact support. He know what he's doing. All this was clearly premedited. 

[pjcdn2005]

This situation isn't similar to the other one so I wouldn't have assumed that the outcome would be the same.  I have no idea why customer service would say in this case that you were covered as that clearly goes against the rules but it wouldn't be the first time they gave out bad information.

The situation may seem like a clear case of fraud to you but ebay is not generally in the business of deciding whether or not a situation between buyer and seller is fraud.  They depend on facts such as tracking showing delivery.  If you have been able to fight and win some of these cases, don't assume that that is the way it should always be.  In some cases ebay will rule in your favour but it many be a one time thing.

eBay does not want customer service to make decisions on any he said/she said situations. 

[femmefan1946]

Rocket- for the record, I believe we all agree with you that the buyer was scamming. And that you got bad information from customer service.

[rocketscollectibles]

But i did not assume i was covered, i got told by agents that i was. I know we can't win any case from our assumptions that it's fraud. And i know we usually can't win a INR without tracking. ebay has buyer's history, there are the ones knowing if buyer has abuses. Was the whole purpose of me contacting them. And they told me that i was under seller's protection, and second agent confirmed that  (even telling me to appeal). I got fully misleaded. At this point i don't care about refunds, but i lost the selling fees (plus ebay is taking the fees a second time, you refund in full when closed without resolution). Now they acknowledged i was not responsible of non-resolution and they remove my selling defects, logically they should credit back my fees. Fighting for that now. Agents cost me $25 in fees and 2 selling defects  

[femmefan1946]

devon@ebay 

Any further advice for rocket?

[rocketscollectibles]

Indeed would really like to know if ebay will/can credit my selling fees back. They already confirmed removing my selling defects. So they acknowledge the fact that i am not responsible of those cases closed without resolution. But they keep my selling fees that are usually credited when case closed with resolution.

Basically you sell something $50, you receive $35, but you refund $50. 

If they acknowledge the fact that i am not responsible of those cases closed without resolution, they should credit my selling fees they took for it back. 

[brettjet38]

@rocketscollectibles "And they told me that i was under seller's protection, and second agent confirmed that  (even telling me to appeal). I got fully misleaded. "

Did you tell the (agents/bots) in ANY of your conversations, or chats (transcripts) that you shipped the items using letter mail and that you do not have ANY TRACKING to upload, and did the agents STILL tell you, you were covered by SELLER protection AFTER you told them that you never had any tracking to upload?

Technically, they should refund you if they were fully aware that you had no tracking and still said you were covered, which was incorrect information to give in the first place and would make them wrong and you correct.

Do you have any written transcripts of your interactions with CS to prove this?

No, then this is where written chats are so much more important than talking to someone you can then back up what was said by both sides.

Also, as we no nothing about the BUYER, we can only base our replies on your version of events & as I have always said about "Posts" on these boards in general we are not getting both sides of this story, which always contain two versions and interpretations of the situation.

We no nothing about the Buyer other than they are being portrayed as a "potential" scammer (again) and the Seller as the VICTIM (as usual) this is not a new theme on eBay boards or the many posts I have read over the last two decades, and how many times has the opposite been uncovered as being the real version of events...

Also, if you have "transcripts" you can then post them unedited for us to read and interpret for ourselves what was said or implied, one must ALWAYS BE WARY of second-hand information, including that from the posters themselves as it will always be biased in favor of the self-declared "victim".

[rocketscollectibles]

Do you have any written transcripts of your interactions with CS to prove this?

In my transcript only with the first agent:

10:50:31 UTC 

Hi. I shipped 2 different packages on 2 separate days to a buyer. It is untracked so i have no protection

10:53:53 UTC 

Seems to be a tendency from the member to falsy claim not receiving untracked shipments

11:05:13 UTC 
They very very very rarly loss a package untracked

11:05:51 UTC 

There is no tracking, this is the whole point of me contacting about seller's protection

11:14:57 UTC 6

I can't ask ebay to step in without confirmation, without tracking

11:23:07 UTC 

I don't have any documentation since it was shipped no tracking

[rocketscollectibles]

The agent told me to wait until asking ebay to step in, and that i was under seller's protection. I made it clear that i had no tracking. He confirmed i was protected. 

11:13:19 UTC AGENT

I totally get your point, rest assured as the earliest time we can step in on both cases will be on April 13th, rest assured as I had documented all the important details on my end.

11:13:51 UTC AGENT

Once you reach us back by that time, all you need to do is to provide my service reference number which is (...)

11:14:14 UTC AGENT

So that the agent can read what I have noted on my end, once you reach us back we will take it from there.

11:14:26 UTC ME

Will i be covered by ebay?

11:14:57 UTC ME

I can't ask ebay to step in without confirmation, without tracking. I'll just lose case and receive selling defect

11:15:54 UTC AGENT

You are protected by our seller's protection, I'm giving you the assurance for this. Once you reach us back. The next agent will definitely know what to do.

[mrdutch1001]

totally agree...there has been nothing but bad info passed on to OP and I don't think any Canadian eBay seller should hold onto the idea that there is still any degree of trustworthiness left on this site when it comes to the supposed "eBay customer service" ...that has disappeared ...those days are gone...

[rocketscollectibles]

Contacted support again. They giving my selling fees and promoting listing fees back. Which is logical, since i was found by ebay itself not responsible of the cases closing without resolution. Still very thief that i have to request, otherwise they would have kept my money. 

[brettjet38]

Let's be honest CS on eBay, really vanished over a decade ago when they went to INDIA with the call centers, and we had a lot of Tom, Dicks & Marys as CS agents, now they use AI cheaper and more profitable evidently!

The fact that you need to use only written transcripts to understand or prove what you are being instructed and then have to fight to get refunded after being given incorrect information is not cool, as they say.