Invoice with shipments for CCE

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Sorry if it sounded like a very novice question. I never included invoices with my shipment in the past using Canada Post as I consider it a waste of paper and makes my shipment heavier. I usually just put what's in the shipment with the customs declaration form and it has always been fine.

Due to the rotating strike (and getting close to x'mas), I'll be using ChitChatExpress instead with my upcoming shipments. So I was reading their website and it looks like they prefer that we include an invoice, so here is a few questions about invoices...

1. Does it have to be printed from eBay, or may I type my own invoice? 

2. May I use my initials instead of my full name? Do I have to include my phone number? 

3. What must be included in an invoice? My address, buyer's name/address/phone, item description, item price, sales date, HS code - are these enough?

4. Does the price of every item have to be listed on the invoice, or can I put something general like "used comic books x 10 - $200"? 

5. Does both item cost and shipping cost need to be listed separately on the invoice, or would just the item cost suffice? 

6. For those who used CCE regularly, do you always include an invoice or you don't bother? 

And yes, I did read their FAQ (https://support.chitchats.com/getting-started/frequently-asked-questions/do-i-need-to-include-an-inv...) and my shipments don't "require" invoices but they say it's best practice to include one... 

Thanks for any input! 

[ypdc_dennis]

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@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

... a few questions about invoices...

 1. Does it have to be printed from eBay, or may I type my own invoice? 

2. May I use my initials instead of my full name? Do I have to include my phone number? 

3. What must be included in an invoice? My address, buyer's name/address/phone, item description, item price, sales date, HS code - are these enough?

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You can do your own invoice.

Be sure to include your eBay Seller ID (your actual name is optional).

If you want to protect your phone number, then consider using an email address as a contact substitute .

Do provide enough details so the Buyer knows what they are reading -- as the Buyer is likely to be the only one to ever read it.

-..-

[snoopwiz]

Move along. Nothing to see here. Thanks for stopping by though. 

[hlmacdon]

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@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

Sorry if it sounded like a very novice question. I never included invoices with my shipment in the past using Canada Post as I consider it a waste of paper and makes my shipment heavier. I usually just put what's in the shipment with the customs declaration form and it has always been fine.

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It isn't the best advice frankly speaking. If you aren't transporting across the border yourself, an invoice should always be included as the carrier needs to be able to produce one if asked by CPB. If the shipment goes to secondary they generally will want an invoice but not always. If you want to keep CBP happy, your invoice needs to be something that can be verified online, ie your ebay invoice with the item details or a proper invoice from your website software/etc.  They prefer to have your address on the invoice so it is clear to American consumers that they are purchasing from a non-US entity. The standard ebay invoice includes everything you need, assuming you have marked your shipping label with the correct item description and HS code.

In a perfect world they also want your web listing to make clear any safety warnings pertaining to the item as the country of origin of the item. The country of origin of  the item needs to be on the item being shipped as well. If it is not included on packaging you can buy stickers/bubble wrap the item and mark the sticker there.  Do not make up your invoice, misstate prices lower, etc. During a secondary inspection CBP will often lookup items against their invoices. Forwarders have been turned around or banned from certain crossings for not following these procedures. A piece of paper inside a shipment is like an extra 5 grams so not a huge deal. Keep in mind this is a commercial importation of product and not just a shipment moving like normal, so the same standards apply really. 

[ypdc_dennis]

CBP -- short for U.S. Customs and Border Protection

https://www.cbp.gov/

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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A piece of paper inside a shipment is like an extra 5 grams so not a huge deal. Keep in mind this is a commercial importation of product and not just a shipment moving like normal, so the same standards apply really. 

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But I'm not a commercial seller; I'm pretty much selling my used collection. I don't really make money off my sales but rather just to cover part of the cost of my hobby. I spend hundreds on my hobby a month and on average I sell less than $100 a month here.  

5 gram does matter, when they are like 197 grams or 245 grams... 

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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If you aren't transporting across the border yourself, an invoice should always be included as the carrier needs to be able to produce one if asked by CPB. If the shipment goes to secondary they generally will want an invoice but not always. If you want to keep CBP happy, your invoice needs to be something that can be verified online, ie your ebay invoice with the item details or a proper invoice from your website software/etc.  They prefer to have your address on the invoice so it is clear to American consumers that they are purchasing from a non-US entity. The standard ebay invoice includes everything you need, assuming you have marked your shipping label with the correct item description and HS code.

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What if it's something like, I saw someone on an online forum mentioned that they were looking for a particular comic book and I happened to have a copy. We started e-mailing each other and they bought it off me. There is no electronic record or anything like that that can be verified online as it's all just e-mails with photos and info. There really isn't anything I can provide on the invoice other than "used comic book", a HS code and country of origin though...? 

[momcqueen]

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@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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A piece of paper inside a shipment is like an extra 5 grams so not a huge deal. Keep in mind this is a commercial importation of product and not just a shipment moving like normal, so the same standards apply really. 

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But I'm not a commercial seller; I'm pretty much selling my used collection. I don't really make money off my sales but rather just to cover part of the cost of my hobby. I spend hundreds on my hobby a month and on average I sell less than $100 a month here.  

5 gram does matter, when they are like 197 grams or 245 grams... 

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That additional five grams will be the least of your worries if your shipment is rejected at the border due to an insufficient customs declaration.

Use a smaller or thinner piece of paper if weight over the price break is your issue, or skip the paper tissue for air pillows, or find a lighter box or envelope. Use one less strip of packing tape. I've had to count the inches of tape I'm using on international shipments to stay within the boundaries of the price breaks on weight; I wouldn't skip the one part I needed (the customs declaration) just to reinforce my seams a third time.

You asked for advice, now you're getting it. Right?

If I had posed the question, I wouldn't be arguing with the folks who answered it here since I certainly don't know any differently; I'm also not using any third-party shippers like ChitChat.... yet.... but you can bet that I will take the advice of those who replied to your question at their word and go with it when I do. 

International 'Commercial' shipments are not a question of hobby versus mega-seller. Personal versus commercial shipments are sending as a gift to aunt Betty for Christmas versus bought online and paid to send. Don't fudge your declarations for Customs.  Plus you're giving it to a third party like ChitChat for export who has no data on it and cannot otherwise answer any query without a paper trail to cite. 

There are no shades of grey in the world of customs enforcement and border protection, that world is black and white. 

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

I wasn't intending to argue and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I just wanted better understanding at the matter. I can see where the rules are coming from. Now I never said I skip the customs declaration, as that's required on the shipping label. When I used Shippo back then, I always put "used comic books" with the HS code and country of origin, and the actual item cost. I cover my books with clear plastic bag and bubble wrap inside so that they can be easily inspected if needed. I just find having both the invoice and customs declaration redundant, but I can now see where the invoice requirement is coming from since you're right about how I'm using CCE instead of sending them off with Canada Post myself.

I don't want to use my eBay invoice because I do "free" shipping, so what the eBay invoice has doesn't actually reflect the actual item cost. For example, I could list something with "free" shipping for $25, but in actuality the item is like $12.50, with $3.50 going to eBay/Paypal, $8 shipping, and $1 to my packing material, handling etc. I think some countries charge import fees on shipping charge too, so if the invoice says $25 and the shipping label says $8, then wouldn't the buyer gets over charged on import fees? That's why I want to do my own invoice and declare the actual item cost without shipping included. I don't intend to misstate the value of the item or anything like that.

There is also the case where my shipping charge in the listing is $5 (because it sounds more attractive than $11 --- the $6 gets moved to item price). So if the eBay invoice says $5 but my shipping label says $11, wouldn't that also cause confusion? 

If someone has clarification for me regarding my message #7 on how to invoice personal sales via e-mail, that would be great. I do appreciate the info that I'm given so far.

[hlmacdon]

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@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

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But I'm not a commercial seller; I'm pretty much selling my used collection. I don't really make money off my sales but rather just to cover part of the cost of my hobby. I spend hundreds on my hobby a month and on average I sell less than $100 a month here.  

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In this case it doesn't matter what kind of seller you are in this case or whether the goods are used or new. The process by which the product moves across the border is classified as a commercial importation. Whether you transport it via that process or a third party does, the importing party is responsible for having and packaged with the shipment everything a customs officer would like to see and have present. 

[hlmacdon]

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@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

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What if it's something like, I saw someone on an online forum mentioned that they were looking for a particular comic book and I happened to have a copy. We started e-mailing each other and they bought it off me. There is no electronic record or anything like that that can be verified online as it's all just e-mails with photos and info. There really isn't anything I can provide on the invoice other than "used comic book", a HS code and country of origin though...?  

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Ideally invoice them through paypal or print off the paypal transaction record. Here is a practical example of what an officer will look at. A book shows up with only an invoice showing it's declared value as $5. That is within the general realm of believability and the officer will generally not care to go beyond that point unless the content of the book is of concern. A new macbook shows up at the border and is valued at $300. The officer will want to see online proof that the item is for sale/was sold at that price since the price would not seem plausible. 

[musicyouneed]

I assume that when CCE takes it across the border they have a sheet listing all the items per seller and the declared value of each item.  It is at this point if the US customs were suspicious they would open the item.  One other way is just importing the sold listings from ebay to CCE directly.  

I would assume that the US customs agents are looking for certain things, drugs, under declared items, and other banned items.  I don't think that my CD's are your comic books will be under scrutiny, unless of course, you are hiding marijuana between the pages.   

[hlmacdon]

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@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

I just find having both the invoice and customs declaration redundant, but I can now see where the invoice requirement is coming from since you're right about how I'm using CCE instead of sending them off with Canada Post myself.

I don't want to use my eBay invoice because I do "free" shipping, so what the eBay invoice has doesn't actually reflect the actual item cost. For example, I could list something with "free" shipping for $25, but in actuality the item is like $12.50, with $3.50 going to eBay/Paypal, $8 shipping, and $1 to my packing material, handling etc. I think some countries charge import fees on shipping charge too, so if the invoice says $25 and the shipping label says $8, then wouldn't the buyer gets over charged on import fees? That's why I want to do my own invoice and declare the actual item cost without shipping included. I don't intend to misstate the value of the item or anything like that.

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At the border, if a shipment goes to secondary customs will generally ask for the invoice and inspect the goods themselves. Can you create your invoice? Sure, make sure it has all the same information that an ebay or paypal invoice would. As far as values go, CBP in the US look at the price paid for the item, excluding freight/insurance. If your items are "free shipping" whatever the buyer pays for the item is the FOB/item price, so the price with "free shipping" is now your FOB price so there is a potential issue there if you fudge the shipping out. For other countries it may vary if they go by FOB or CIF, but on your CN22 you'll list the item cost (FOB) on your declaration. Shipping costs shouldn't appear on your labels unless you aren't using stealth postage (ie do not print shipping costs on label), which USPS and Canada Post providers should both support. 

The key thing here is that remember whatever you do exposes the third party to liabilities. The notebook example was one that got a forwarder banned at a border crossing.

[hlmacdon]

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@musicyouneed wrote:

I would assume that the US customs agents are looking for certain things, drugs, under declared items, and other banned items.  I don't think that my CD's are your comic books will be under scrutiny, unless of course, you are hiding marijuana between the pages.   

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Inspections are random and everything is under equal scrutiny. They care down to textile information/country of origin on a handknit $5 scarf. The commercial importation of goods is held to a higher standard than standard postal mail crossing the border.

[hlmacdon]

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@momcqueen wrote:

There are no shades of grey in the world of customs enforcement and border protection, that world is black and white.  

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This is the point I would emphasize here. Customs folks are often mistaken for customer service representatives you can bargain with or bring around to your point of view. They are not. 

To give a real world semi-recent example, during a secondary inspection of my shipments the officer noted it was good to see that I was adhering to country of origin marking requirements as they had earlier seized an entire shipment from a carrier who had failed to do so. Now for people who sell packaged goods this may seem like an after thought, but consider all the crafts/artisan folks, people selling goods without packaging, etc. All that stuff you see on your packaging? It's there for a reason.

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Thank you for taking the time to respond, the info you provided are very helpful. I do fall into that "selling goods without packaging" category. I might go with printing the Paypal packing slip.

Question about the e-mail sale: I'm going to print off the Paypal Transaction record, but since I didn't actually send the buyer an invoice (I sent a money request), the item description part on the Paypal trasaction is N/A. Would it be acceptable to print off the PP transaction record and then hand-write the details (HS code, country of origin etc) on there? The only thing on my Paypal record is the buyer's address and the item total of the payment.

[hlmacdon · Accepted solution]

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@zee-chan-jpn-books wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to respond, the info you provided are very helpful. I do fall into that "selling goods without packaging" category. I might go with printing the Paypal packing slip.

Question about the e-mail sale: I'm going to print off the Paypal Transaction record, but since I didn't actually send the buyer an invoice (I sent a money request), the item description part on the Paypal trasaction is N/A. Would it be acceptable to print off the PP transaction record and then hand-write the details (HS code, country of origin etc) on there? The only thing on my Paypal record is the buyer's address and the item total of the payment.

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In the future I'd recommend using the paypal invoice feature to save yourself a bit of work. I checked and at least on my secondary personal (non business) account the feature can be used. If not just print the transaction record and/or create your own invoice. You can probably find a freeware invoice generator easily enough.

You don't need HS/Country of Origin/etc on your invoice, just your CN22. Since you sell books, I would imagine they have where they were printed as part of the jacket (or inside first few pages) since books rarely have retail packaging beyond shrink-wrap. That would be sufficient, the rule of thumb is it is either on the product itself or the packaging.

To give a real world example, say a particular collectible toy car is sold without packaging. If the mold used to make the toy car didn't include Made in WXYZ marking, it would need to have a country of origin marking on it or the packaging. An easy solution would be to bag it in a poly bag then use a Made in WXYZ sticker (note these have to be professionally printed). If the toy car had a mold stamp marking it as Made in China on the underside, that would be sufficient. That being said, you would need to package it with a Choking Hazard warning sticker since the product falls under the toy category which has additional safety warning regulations. If you ever buy product by FBA sellers on that other popular marketplace, you'll often notice items packaged like this as they need to follow the same procedures when having their inventory imported into the US, then into their fulfillment partner's warehouses. 

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

I did already made my own version of invoice/packing slip with Office. It has buyer address/my address, item description, value, HS code, country of origin, PayPal transaction ID, weight etc. I'm gonna bring both my version of the invoice and the PayPal transaction record and ask CCE if my own invoice is acceptable by them. When I was trying to make the online label on CCE I didn't see the CN22 form and it didn't ask me for HS code or country of origin either, that's why I'm adding them to my invoice.

What I don't like about the PayPal and eBay invoices are that they don't have the option for me to remove my name and change it to my eBay username.

[zee-chan-jpn-books · Accepted solution]

Showed CCE my invoice and they said it's good to go. They took a copy of it to keep with their paperwork. It was pretty straightforward and they were actually less strict than I imagined so it went well. I had all of my burning questions answered. I'll probably use them again if I get big orders or if CP is still down lol. It's 40 minutes round-trip for me so I'd need to save at least $15 in postage for it to be worthwhile. Meanwhile I'm gonna end all of my listings until I come back from my trip 

I asked them if they got any increase in sales with the strike, and the lady said not a whole lot since it's not a full close down... well, I guess they might see more sales this coming week.  I do notice that they are open until 8pm on Mon and Thurs (Richmond) so that's more convenient now and I can actually go during the evening before or after work. It used to be only till 5pm weekdays only. 

Thanks all and especially @hlmacdon for answering my questions! 

PS. My books didn't have a country of origin printed inside, all they had was the name of the printing company and printing date (all in Japanese lol), so unless they happen to have a customs inspector who's fluent in Japanese...

[momcqueen]

So. I'm trying to use the Winnipeg equivalent of ChitChat for the first time and it says to buy a USPS label. Fine. Can anyone explain the reason the USPS website cannot seem to acknowledge that this is, in fact, a five-digit zip? I'm stumped. Is it a browser incompatibility?

Also. Why doesn't the 'quickship' tool offer anything except Priority?