Item Not Received Dispute - Question

[amranx]

In late February I had a buyer from Poland purchase one of my items which came to around $70. I did offer international shipping via Canada Post Small Packets - International - Ground in the listing. Canada Post had given me a estimate of four to six weeks which is information I relayed to the buyer.

Currently it's a few days away from the six week mark and the buyer has opened a not-recieved dispute on the item. I have contacted Canada Post and they stated that 4-6 weeks is a blanket estimate given for all international ground packages, and it could take longer. I do have the paperwork from sending the item, but as there's no tracking information I'm unable to find out any further information on where the parcel might be.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what to do in this case. Should I just ask that the buyer wait two more weeks to see if the item shows up, with an offer to refund the cost if it doesn't? I guess there's really nothing that can be done without tracking information here, but as a small time seller I'm worried that I'll be taking this as a loss.

The buyer has 230 (100%) postive feedback so I expect they're just covering their bases by opening a dispute.

[gamer4life99]

Wait until paypal rules in the buyer`s favor...this could take weeks. Hopefully the buyer will receive his item by then. 

I was going to suggest claiming the insurance on the package but I just found out that Canada Post does not insure small packets anymore. 

[amranx]

Thank you for the suggestion. Is it best to keep communication open with the buyer and provide them proof of the item being shipped, but avoid suggesting a refund this early?

I'd suspect the item will make it there eventually, but it's a slow shipping method especially for a location so far away. As you mention, there's sadly no insurance with this postal method either. (It would have taken $60-$80 to get tracking and insurance for the item!)

[i*m-still-here]

Ooops........... I think I goofed on that info.

It looks like CPO cancelled insurance before you shipped.

Sorry 'bout that.......... had my dates wrong.

[renfrewite]

The best practice is not to offer ground services for overseas packages, with the paypal 45 day time limit, the seller will lose every time.  I hope this works out for you, but in the future it's a good idea to only offer air shipping to overseas destinations.  I know it's expensive for air overseas unless it's light packet, but it's better than you losing a lot of money.  If you look on these forums you will find many horror stories from sellers that made that same mistake, and lost out big time.

[pjcdn2005]

Should I just ask that the buyer wait two more weeks to see if the item shows up, with an offer to refund the cost if it doesn't?

That's what I would do. I would also mention that if they received the item after the refund to let me know and I could invoice them again.....or something like that.

[recped]

Wait until paypal rules in the buyer`s favor...this could take weeks.

That's a really bad idea!

Should I just ask that the buyer wait two more weeks to see if the item shows up, with an offer to refund the cost if it doesn't?

Yes, the buyer has 20 days to escalate the dispute to a claim, it's in your best interests to avoid it escalating to a claim.

In future do try to avoid using surface mail for overseas, if you feel you have to make really sure your buyers are aware that the estimated delivery times are generally pretty optimistic.

I've shipped to Poland quite often (never by surface) the Post Office there seems to be efficient and reliable in my experience.

The buyer has 230 (100%) postive feedback so I expect they're just covering their bases by opening a dispute.

Most likely.

[gamer4life99]

I meant to say do not send any refund until paypal rules in the buyer`s favor and refunds the buyer`s money, as this will only happen after a delay (could be weeks). But I did not mean to stop communicating with the buyer...

Sorry for the confusion... 

[i*m-still-here]

In cases when the sale took place so long ago paypal usually rules very quickly and often over night.

If that happens you lose your FVFs.

If you refund willingly you can recover your fees.

[pierrelebel]

"do not send any refund until paypal rules in the buyer`s favor and refunds the buyer`s money,"

Most definitely NOT a good idea.  It may be the first step to losing your selling privileges on eBay. 😞

That transaction becomes a "case closed without seller resolution"

From eBay:

A closed case without seller resolution is any case in which the seller does not respond and resolve an issue with the buyer, and eBay or PayPal issues a refund.

There are limits to the number of opened cases and cases closed without seller resolution that a seller may ha... 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/seller-dashboard.html#unresolved_cases 

[rose-dee]

I agree wit "'recped's" comments completely, and would do the same.  Communicating with the buyer and reassuring him/her that you will provide a refund if necessary is good business.

I expect the item will pop up in a couple of weeks, but like others here, I never use overnseas ground services for this reason, only air. 

Let us know how this turns out!

[i*m-still-here]

What am I missing?

It looks like the transaction took place over 40 days ago.

The usual advice is to refund the buyer at this time if there is a complaint so that there is no impetus to open and/or escalate a paypal or ebay case.

However, the general gyst of this thread it not to refund but rather ask the buyer to wait a few more weeks.

Why the departure from the usual advice?

I would have advised to refund now, but ........... again:  What am I missing?

[raanana]

Shipping $70.00 items to Poland (as well to Russia,Ukraine,Romania etc) without insurance or tracking No,is a bad idea.Unfortunately without tracking No. there is no chance to win a case.

You can only hope that it was not stolen at PO and buyer is a honest person.

Just last month had a case  closed in a favor of buyer from Russia.Mailed $17.50 worth postcard as regular and he claimed it as "item not received".Only tracking No.is considired by ebay and Paypal as proof of shipping,nothing else.

I had a very bad feeling about buyers behavior and did my own investigation with amazing results. I found lost card nicely listed on Russian site similar  by the very same person.Most interesting part,that by end he confirmed receiving the card with delay of 3 month (definately lie),but refused to pay for it.

It is 100% thief and ebay refused to do anything about it,as a case was alredy closed.For sure reported the thief to ebay fraud department.Will also report him to Russian site as well as Paypal.

By the way,buyer has 471 100%  feedback,but in any case he is 100% thief.

[nuvistors]

A good buyer will open a case if the deadline approaches.

[gamer4life99]

If i remember correctly, when you get an item not received claim, there is also a link in the paypal message to refund the buyer...now, the OP`s only chance of not getting burned is to wait until the very last minute as the item may be received by the buyer any day now. If the OP decides to refund the buyer now, and the buyer receives the item tomorrow, well, the OP looses  the money and the shipping cost and it is very unlikely that the buyer will send the money back...

I`ve had a few "not received" claims in the past and 90% of the time the buyer did receive their item a fews days after they filed the claim (and they closed the case). Had I decided to refund them by clicking on the link I would have lost the money. 

[gamer4life99]

 Also, I do not know if the buyer agreed to wait 2 more weeks or not, but if the buyer has agreed then  the OP should respect his/her word and refund the buyer if the item is not received in two weeks. 

[amranx]

Lots of great advise here, thank you for all the replies! Although I have contacted the seller both in response to the item not yet arriving and information about the shipping duration when it was purchased, I've yet to see any reply from them. I will follow up on the dispute today as suggested.

Feeling like I'm going to lose this one, but if nothing else, it's a good lesson to avoid ground shipping internationally. It doesn't seem like air is a very affordable option though Canada Post, and especially not anything tracked. I was just checking quotes for shipping an item to the UK, and while ground would be $18, Air jumps to almost $40, and getting tracking would make it $59. (This is on an item valued at only $25)

One again, thank you for all the help!

[reallynicestamps]

Is it best to keep communication open with the buyer and provide them proof of the item being shipped, but avoid suggesting a refund this early?

Certainly give the buyer the proof of shipping.

I might also suggest translating any of your messages into Polish (but keep the original English). I like Google Translate for this.

We boardies usually tell buyers in the position of your buyer (parcel from overseas has not arrived, 45 day deadline rapidly approaching) that they should first contact the seller to gauge his customer service skills, then file a PP dispute on Day 20-30-43 (depending on various factors including location, service used and seller's feedback).

Once filed, the dispute can lengthen the resolution deadline. So it is not all bad.

But do not allow the dispute to get to the point where PP refunds the customer. YOU should be ready to refund and then reinvoice when the customer indicates that the parcel finally arrived.