06-24-2013 11:46 PM
I purchased an item from a U.S. seller on June 19th. In round numbers, I paid $11.00 S&H and $7.00 import fees. I was fine with that because the base price of the item was excellent and the $18.00 total S&H and fees was equal to what other sellers were charging for shipping outside of the GSP.
On June 21st, I got a confirmation e-mail from UPS in Kentucky that my item had been delivered .... to them ... at a location called Airport Exchange Blvd. It didn`t sound like it was still in transit; simply that it had been delivered and signed for. That's all I've heard. While I wasn`t expecting to have received it today, I would like some idea of how it's going to be shipped to me and when I can expect delivery. When I contacted UPS to see if they were now going to forward this item to me or was it being picked up and shipped by USPS, I was told ...sorry, "In order to protect our customer's information, we cannot provide you with charges billed to another party. Please contact your shipper for additional assistance." Well, I wasn't going to contact the seller yet; perhaps he doesn't even know the details of how it's going to proceed to Canada if he's new to the program. His listing did state "International Tracking" except that the UPS number is now dead.
While only a few days have passed since my purchase, and I'm not impatient, it seems to me that there should be some further notification to the buyer but, by whom, I'm not sure -- the seller? UPS Kentucky? USPS? So far, I'm not impressed.
11-09-2013 12:45 PM - edited 11-09-2013 12:46 PM
Well, I decided it was time to take a look on the CBSA website. Here is the information pertaining to the type of textile I purchased, from the Tariff table (the "Free" designation appears under the "MFN" column, which means "Most Favoured Nation" status. In the sub-table, Italy is shown as "MFN", as were most European countries):
5111.11.90 | 00 | Woven fabrics of carded wool or of carded fine animal hair. - Containing 85% or more by weight of wool or of fine animal hair: - Of a weight not exceeding 300 g/m² - Other | KGM | Free | LDCT, UST, MT, CIAT, CT, CRT, IT, NT, SLT, PT, COLT, JT, PAT: Free |
So if I am reading this correctly, this would indicate duty-free for such textiles. I'd be interested if anyone knows otherwise and can point me to the applicable source of information. There were a number of different weights, etc., in this particular table, so the list goes on and on, but this one would be the appropriate description for my item.
11-09-2013 01:55 PM
Also for anyone if your buying anything from the US if the Sellers can provide you with the NAFTA for your product it will come across duty free regardless of what a Tarriff code reasearch will say you have to pay .. As long as the NAFTA Paper shows products were made in the US it will come across Duty Free
11-09-2013 02:10 PM
http://www.dutycalculator.com/Hscodes/hs-code-for-fabric-italian/
15.5% duty (in addition to taxes)
Now, I specifically used the term "Italian Fabric" based on your earlier post.
Even if the seller showed USA as country of origin but the description showed "Italian fabric" I suspect whoever calculated the duty decided 15.5% was the correct assessment.
11-09-2013 02:28 PM
Unfortunately, the online free duty calculator only gives you 3 free visits before you need to pay for the service.
Duty rates (other than from the USA) are complicated, more so when textile is involved, as sometimes the rate depends on the nature of the finished product, sometimes the content (type of fabric). And the rules change constantly.
If one could use unlimited time to narrow down exactly what the product is, it would be a fun thing to do. However, whoever has to asses the correct rate of duty (if applicable) must rely on the very limited information supplied by the seller and/or a visible inspection of the item.
I vaguely remember the "good old days" back in the 60's when I was involved daily with import and duty rate calculations. Some stuff is weird. For example, most imports used in schools were exempt of duty if purchased directly by a school board or through a supplier with a certificate of purchase from the school board. However, if a third party purchased the goods for eventual resale to the school board, duty had to be paid. Same item - same end user - different rates depending how the transaction was constructed.
It is a bit like the nonsense with HST/GST. If you buy one donut at Tim Hortons, you pay HST; if you buy a dozen you do not (exempt as grocery item!). Logical? When dealing with taxes, you can expect anything but logic!
11-09-2013 02:33 PM
Pierre, you are probably right about the people at the Kentucky hub generating a customs charge based on the listing description, but the bottom line was still favorable for me in this transaction.
However if this seller had been charging the usual price for this item, it would not have been worth buying with GSP attached.
This leads me to think that GSP sellers in the US may only be able to attract buyers who have been made aware of all the problems of GSP by offering an exceptionally low item price. Why not get more for the item and use regular USPS shipping? This is the part I doubt eBay makes clear to US sellers.
The answer in this particular seller's case was that he was not comfortable or experienced with international (i.e. mostly Canadian) transactions, and was hoping the GSP would relieve him of any worries and problems. I'm not so sure about that.
11-09-2013 02:34 PM
Oh, I meant to mention, that link you provided doesn't appear functional -- it leads to a dead-end web page. Do you have another link?
11-09-2013 02:40 PM
@pierrelebel wrote:Logical? When dealing with taxes, you can expect anything but logic!
I recall the "good old days" when I lived in British Columbia, when all fabric off the bolt was free of provincial tax (and that was before the GST, so = completely tax free).
I see your note about the duty calculator - that's likely why I wasn't able to get into the website when I tried. This is a very small issue for me anyway, and when I can get a really good base price, the taxes/duties are essentially irrelevant.
11-09-2013 03:04 PM
"that was before the GST, so = completely tax free"
You really think so?
The government fooled you. The price included 12% FST (federal sales tax). The manufacturer sales tax was hidden from the consumers. It also applied to all taxable imports based on the import cost (FOB before shipping).
That was one of the big battles in 1990 to have the GST visible or hidden?
Mulroney eventually decided to let each merchant decide. You may recall those blue signs at the checkout. They stated whether the 7% GST was included or extra.
Most large retailers decided to charge extra except Woolco who absorbed the tax in the price. Four years later Woolco was out of business, selling its location to WalMart.
11-09-2013 03:13 PM
If I remember a bit...
That manufacturer's sales tax was applied to a "wholesale " price, as received by a retail store, and was something like 13 %
11-09-2013 03:20 PM
"That manufacturer's sales tax was applied to a "wholesale " price"
That was the unfairness of the old federal (or Manufacturer) Sales Tax (FST).
It applied on the selling price of the Canadian manufacturer or the purchase price of the importer. The end result was that more tax dollars were in fact paid by the Canadian manufacturer than the same item manufactured overseas since the Canadian manufacturer had to pay FST on his overhead factors and profit (included in the selling price) while the importer was paying FST based on the purchase price in the country of origin (before shipping charge).
GST changed that since the tax - at a lower rate - is paid by the final consumer.
11-09-2013 03:51 PM
Too bad they couldn't have made this far clearer at the time. I don't recall any federal politician explaining the situation as succinctly as you just have.
I do recall explanations from politicians about how the cost of goods to the end consumer would effectively be lowered, presumably because the importer (or retailer) could now offer the price without the FST, and the consumer would save about 5% over the "old" system, even after paying the GST.
But I'd be willing to bet that most retailers simply left their prices the same (or slowly increased them), rather than passing on that 5% savings to the end consumer. Retailers can offer "GST-free" days as a promotion and make it look like a really good deal for the consumer - obviously the retailers are not taking as big a hit as consumers may believe.
11-09-2013 05:39 PM
"I don't recall any federal politician explaining the situation as succinctly as you just have. "
Back in the late 80's, I had recently sold our distribution business and, having time to spare, was working with a firm of CAs doing bookkeeping and tax preparation for small businesses. Under their umbrella I joined the Canadian Tax Foundation who was involved at the time in developing what would eventually become the GST. I attended several meetings and work sessions giving me some insight into how the tax was born.
My best recollection - that was twenty-five years ago - were two important discussions:
1) should the tax be hidden from the consumers like the old FST was and like the VAT in Europe where consumers pay the sticker price while the merchants do the tax bookkeeping or should the new tax be visible. The political decision was to let consumers see the tax.
2) on the basis of having a new national consumption tax which would be "revenue neutral" at the beginning, should the rate be relatively high like the old FST (12%) by having many exemptions, be lower at 9% (that is the original rate for GST before the political decision was made to go at 7%) or - my personal preference - have a very low rate (2% for example) with no exception whatsoever (that meant taxing milk, basic food, rent, prescriptions, etc...). The advantage of a low rate: easy to administer and eliminating the incentives to cheat (black market and underground economy). However, politicians made the decision. They did not have the stomach for it.
Boy oh boy, that was a trip back memory lane....
11-09-2013 05:43 PM
Some background found on the Internet:
"In 1989, the Progressive Conservative government of Prime Minister Brian Mulroney proposed the creation of a national sales tax of 9%. At this time, every province in Canada except Alberta already had its own provincial sales tax imposed at the retail level."
The Liberal-dominated Senate refused to pass the tax into law. In an unprecedented move to break the deadlock, Mulroney used a little-known constitutional provision to increase the number of senators by eight temporarily, thus giving the Progressive Conservatives a majority in the upper chamber. In response, the Opposition launched a filibuster and further delayed the legislation.
Despite the tax being lowered to 7% by the time it became enacted, it remained controversial. What the tax covered also caused anger. The Government defended the tax as a replacement for a tax unseen by consumers because it was placed on manufacturers, and in the long run it was posited that removing the MST would make Canada more competitive. Once the MST was replaced with the GST prices did not initially fall by the level some thought appropriate immediately; however, proponents have argued that in Canada's market economy the MST's replacement could only be expected to influence prices over time and not on a stroke.
Despite the opposition, the tax came into force on January 1, 1991.