eBay

teenytrinkets · ‎11-10-2022

This is probably the weirdest "Item Not Received " claim I've had in a while.

I sent package from Canada to the US via ChitChats. Very fast - delivered within a week. Turns out, it was a UPS Store address (buyer claims she was moving, so it wasn't safe to ship to old address, in case it didn't arrive in time). Item was delivered and scanned at the main reception - according to ChitChats tracking - Nov 7th. And that's where it ends with the ChitChats tracking.

But... USPS tracking has no delivery scan, but Nov 8th is updated with "Item Refused" and the day after that, Nov 9th "Return to Sender". Curious...

I have no idea why these two would differ in the first place. I've attached screenshots of the contradicting tracking. Any thoughts on why the USPS would eliminate the delivery scan once the item was refused and returned - or how on earth a refusal is even allowed after a successful delivery?

The buyer claims the item was received at the UPS Store, but then they returned to sender for some reason so it wasn't there when she went to pick it up. I told her the tracking in ebay says delivered, and if she should be taking this up with the UPS Store, and tracing the whereabouts of the package, since it was returned without her consent. That's when the messages back and forth stopped, and then she immediately filed an item not received dispute.

I put the "delivery confirmed" ChitChats tracking number in the dispute and also copied the delivery scan information in the comments. I contacted eBay support and requested they close the dispute in my favor now (because right now a big chunk of my money is on hold until it's closed) and she said not to worry, the dispute will be closed in my favor, since tracking says delivered, but we have to wait a week for ebay to close it. Ughhh.... where have I heard that before?

Anyway, I have to wait this out, but it all smells a little scammy - esp since the buyer is a zero feedback buyer. In the meantime, anyone ever seen two sets of tracking differing like this? Or a "delivery" scan being removed after a refusal/return is processed???

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎11-11-2022

If tracking states that it was refused, the buyer is not protected. I wouldn't get worked up about the tracking being different on Chit Chats and USPS. Chit Chats tracking doesn't always interpret USPS tracking updates exactly right. If USPS says refused and returned, go by that.

I would contact eBay directly to resolve the INR claim since the bots may perceive the tracking a certain way if you only add the tracking. I would explain it was delivered and refused. Link them to the proper tracking that shows refused. This seems like a situation where you might need a CSR to manually input your response to the case after you explain to them what happened.

If the buyer or someone at the address the buyer asked you to ship the item to (in this case a UPS store) refused the package, they have no recourse for a refund. Refusing a package voids buyer protection. With that said, I would still refund them when the item is returned to you. Minus any unrecoverable costs that they caused you to lose, such as shipping, or return shipping. Chit Chats doesn't usually charge return shipping for refused packages, but they do charge a $5 fee.

If you wish to deal with the buyer again, you can invite them to re-buy the item after they are refunded.

Because this was a problem on the buyer's end, and not a mistake you made, I think most people would agree that holding back unrecoverable costs would be fair.

reallynicestamps · ‎11-11-2022

This comes up from time to time , so I saved an earlier conversation about it.

UNDELIVERABLE ITEMS
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?...

This is the part I'm referring to

Exclusions and special coverage when the buyer doesn't receive an item

 Items collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer Not covered 

The buyer arranged their own shipping method, such as a courier pickup Not covered 

The buyer provided an invalid or incorrect address at checkout Not covered

An ethical seller would refund the payment, less shipping costs, eBay fees, and international payment processing fees.
But it's my belief that eBay will not require any refund.

Hi @femmefan1946! You're correct in that a refused package is on the buyer and not the sellers responsibility to refund. As long as tracking shows the package was refused, then we would side with a seller if the buyer opened an Item Not Received claim.

I agree that I would not withhold all the money, but it is up to the seller if they would like to withhold shipping, refund the buyer entirely, or keep it all. If the seller is okay with refunding the buyer entirely and being out the shipping costs, then they can cancel the transaction using the buyer requested option since in essence, they did by refusing the package. If the seller wants to retain the shipping costs, then they can message the buyer a heads up (not a requirement but a nice thing to do) and then refund them partially through this flow here.
Velvet,

Velvet is an eBay employee who posts to the Boards when we call her.

teenytrinkets · ‎11-11-2022

@ilikehockeyjerseys
Unfortunately, anything I send to the US via ChitChats is not returned to me. Chit Chats U.S. Returns Service requires a Power of Attorney form that must be submitted with a Federal Business number (which I don't have) in order for any returns to be brought back into Canada. I'll be charged the $7 return fee when the package reaches the Niagara Falls, NY ChitChats return facility, and then it will be destroyed.

The buyer loses their buyer protection no matter which tracking ebay chooses to use in the dispute (ChitChats says delivered, USPS says Refused & Returned) - so I'm not particularly concerned about that. I'm just not sure how a return delivery scan at the US ChitChats facility could affect the dispute.

ChitChats returns are tricky. After this experience, I think I need to be more strategic about how I'd like to handle them - especially if a package is simply undeliverable and the buyer is refunded.

teenytrinkets · ‎11-11-2022

@reallynicestamps

Thanks - that's all good info!

This situation is a little complicated with ChitChats being used for an international return, but ultimately I'll never see the package back, which is why the buyer filed the Item Not Received claim.

Still wondering how a package could be delivered at the UPS Store, and then refused and returned by staff, without the buyers consent. Strange one...

38e_avenue · ‎11-11-2022

@teenytrinkets wrote:
@ilikehockeyjerseys
Unfortunately, anything I send to the US via ChitChats is not returned to me. Chit Chats U.S. Returns Service requires a Power of Attorney form that must be submitted with a Federal Business number (which I don't have) in order for any returns to be brought back into Canada. I'll be charged the $7 return fee when the package reaches the Niagara Falls, NY ChitChats return facility, and then it will be destroyed.

It's why I terminated my business with ChitChats. Other similar shipping services were able to resolve that problem, but ChitChats doesn't care at all. I recently got from them a "come back" offer with a significative discount - no, thanks! Never again!

dinomitesales · ‎11-11-2022

@teenytrinkets wrote:
Still wondering how a package could be delivered at the UPS Store, and then refused and returned by staff, without the buyers consent. Strange one...

If I were to take a guess at reasoning I would say that the buyer didn't properly register for a UPS mailbox to hve her parcels delivered there. She probably just thought "oh, I'll just address my parcel to a UPS store - they get mail delivered there, it must be safe!". Or maybe she heard about people using a UPS store to have their mail delivered to, failing to realize that they had signed up/paid for that privelage. In which case USPS would have dropped off the daily parcels at the UPS store (marking them as "delivered" at the same time). Then, as the employees at the UPS store are going through them and sorting them they realize that this one parcel is addressed to someone who doesn't have a mail box agreement with them, and they just automatically return it to sender.

This happens all the time at the Canada Post post office I work at. People just think that since it's a post office they can just address their items directly to the post office address and everything will be hunky-dory. Not knowing that they have no authorization to receive mail at that specific business address.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎11-11-2022

If the USPS tracking says refused/return to sender, I don't think it matters what the Chit Chats tracking says. The only issue is that you might have to reply to the case by phoning eBay, having them confirm they see the package as refused on the phone, and then asking them to step in from there. It shouldn't be too difficult.

Assuming eBay agrees that it was refused, and closes the INR in your favour, it is then up to you to decide what the right thing to do is since the customer will not have any protection. I also assume you would be protected from any negative feedback.

reallynicestamps · ‎11-12-2022

@dinomitesales Or they may have heard of the General Delivery function of very small post offices in isolated areas, not realizing that that may have gone out of service a hundred years ago.

Or of the newer Flex-Delivery service which is free but which requires registration.

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/personal/receiving/alternative-delivery/flexdelivery.p...

which I notice is also only available from Post Offices, not outlets, and requires the user to give very specific information to the sender.

dinomitesales · ‎11-12-2022

@reallynicestamps wrote:
@dinomitesales Or they may have heard of the General Delivery function of very small post offices in isolated areas, not realizing that that may have gone out of service a hundred years ago.
Or of the newer Flex-Delivery service which is free but which requires registration.
https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/personal/receiving/alternative-delivery/flexdelivery.p...
which I notice is also only available from Post Offices, not outlets, and requires the user to give very specific information to the sender.

You can choose any post office in Canada as a FlexDelivery destination - corporate/rural post offices or authorized dealers (outlets), doesn't matter which. But yes it requires a specific set of information to be in the address line when addressing items to a FlexDelivery address which some people miss or are confused about (it's basically a virtual P.O. Box). Worst case scenario the post office can do a search for that person's FlexDelivery details but it can delay delivery of the parcel in question.