Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

cm19july
Community Member

Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission.  At the moment my only income comes from the knitting patterns that I design and sell, so to see that someone has made hundreds of dollars in sales is upsetting.  I have faxed the form that eBay provides to complain, but am aware that as this is intellectual property there may not be much I can do other than to hope the listing is taken down.  

Does anyone have any advice for me on what else I can do - I'm feeling a bit violated here.  

Message 1 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

are your designs copyrighted?  have they scanned/copied your patterns and are reproducing them, or did they buy patterns from you and are simply re-selling them?

Message 2 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

They are selling photocopies of my PDF knitting patterns (my own designs).  I wrote to the seller, who said she got the pattern on a cd a while ago from another seller but doesn't have the information now.  However, I did a search through my own records, and believe that she is a buyer who purchased the pattern from me through one of my online stores.

Message 3 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

"she is a buyer who purchased the pattern from me through one of my online stores."

 

When you sell a pattern, do you expressly prohibit reproduction? Do you clearly show the item is copyrighted?

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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

mcrlmn
Community Member

Copyright exists automatically if it is an original expression and in a tangible form; even if the work is not published or has not been formally registered with the U.S. Copyright Office.

However, you cannot take any legal action against an infringer until your copyright has been formally registered.

 

Message 5 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission


@mcrlmn wrote:

Copyright exists automatically if it is an original expression and in a tangible form; even if the work is not published or has not been formally registered with the U.S. Copyright Office.

However, you cannot take any legal action against an infringer until your copyright has been formally registered.

 


This is Canada.  But the same rules apply here. You should have no problem getting her shut down.

 

BUT, moving forward you need to use a watermark in your PDF... clearing stating your name and company info.

Message 6 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

Thank you all for your replies.  I did not put on a watermark, but shall rectify that now.  When I sent a message to the seller to ask if she was the person who purchased my pattern recently, she didn't reply, so I am guessing she is - her location fits and her first name is on the shop.  The pattern does indicate copyright, but she could simply use a programme that would allow her to change or delete information (not everyone is devious, but it's possible to do this!).

Message 7 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission


@mcrlmn wrote:

Copyright exists automatically if it is an original expression and in a tangible form; even if the work is not published or has not been formally registered with the U.S. Copyright Office.

However, you cannot take any legal action against an infringer until your copyright has been formally registered.

 


Canada is a signatory to international conventions on copyright, and therefore Canada's laws are more or less in line with other western democracies, including the U.S.

 

However, while copyright does automatically vest in an original work (or a work that is substantially original), in Canada it is not necessary to "register" the copyright with CIPO, nor is such registration obligatory for legal action against infringement.  Such registration confers no special status on the copyrighted material, design, etc., aside from adding it to an official database.  It may help in a lawsuit, in the sense that it provides some (but not conclusive) proof of ownership and origin, but other evidence would be needed to establish proof. 

 

You may be thinking of trade marks, which are handled quite differently and do usually need to be formally registered with Industry Canada in order to secure ownership and protect them legally.  There is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation among the general public about the distinction between copyright and trade marks.  They are two different areas from a legal standpoint. 

 

In Canada it is also not necessary, although it is recommended by CIPO, to place a copyright symbol, warning, or other statement as to ownership on an original piece of work.  It is a smart thing to do though if your product is going to be available to the public.  

 

To the OP:  Enforcing copyright on eBay is a bit of a tricky business, especially if you're in Canada and the other party is in a foreign country (U.S. or otherwise).  Legal action is expensive, and often complex and lengthy.  My best advice would be to contact eBay CS and complain.  However unless you are a VeRO registrant, or can somehow provide proof of the origin of your material, they will likely do nothing.  

 

Even if you were a VeRO owner, the most eBay will probably do is take down any offending listings.  Generally you have to have an established commercial brand to qualify for VeRO - think Dior, Cartier, etc.  EBay, despite its warnings about copyright infringement, is much more focused on "brands" or trade names, so don't expect CS to understand what you're talking about - you may have to go through 3 or 4 people to get someone who even grasps the issue.  I know something of what I'm saying, as I am a copyright owner and happen to have spent a few years as a researcher and paralegal in copyright and trademark law.

 

One thing: are you selling your PDF designs as digital downloads?  That is mostly restricted nowadays on eBay, and if you are delivering your items digitally you should be careful about making a copyright complaint or you may get shut down yourself.  If they're on CDs, there's no problem.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 8 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

Thank you for all that information!  I actually have not yet listed my patterns on eBay - they are available as digital downloads on Etsy, but on Artfire I have to send an e-mail with a PDF attachment as they are not set up like Etsy.  I shall read up on it all before doing another thing!

Message 9 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission


@cm19july wrote:

Thank you for all that information!  I actually have not yet listed my patterns on eBay - they are available as digital downloads on Etsy, but on Artfire I have to send an e-mail with a PDF attachment as they are not set up like Etsy.  I shall read up on it all before doing another thing!


You're most welcome, I hope my comments helped.  

 

I also sell digital downloads on Etsy, who make it simple, easy and completely user-friendly.  The downside to selling any such material online is (as you've discovered) that it's just as easy for others to pirate.  I consider that small risk as part of the trade-off of being able to deliver interesting items instantly to my customers with absolutely no shipping cost.  

 

I wish eBay would do the same, but unfortunately they are a much, much bigger marketplace with many more types of buyers and sellers and vastly differing items on offer.  A few years ago, digitally-delivered items were quite common on eBay, especially in the "Crafts" category, but no more.  They will shut you down in a flash if you try now, unless you strictly follow their rules (link below).  

 

The problem with these rules is that it mostly defeats the beauty of offering digital downloads.  It's costly to list in the Classified section, your items will not be searchable in the same way as others, and you have to list in a practically useless category -- "Other".  My own advice, for what it's worth, having been around the block a few times on this subject, is to find other venues that do permit digital downloads.  

 

Incidentally, are you aware of the new EU agreement on VAT for digitally-delivered materials?  There is currently a lot of confusion about exactly who will be responsible for collecting and remitting the tax.  Many sellers have completely suspended their digitally-delivered item listings for the time being until platforms like Etsy determine what they're doing about the new law.  

 

EBay's rules on digitally-delivered items:  http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/selling-digital-items.html

Message 10 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

Sorry, but I see I may have misunderstood what your reported issue was -- you said someone was selling your PDF patterns.  Are they currently selling them on eBay?  

 

Since you mention you haven't yet set yourself up on eBay, if you see someone selling any digitally-delivered items on eBay that don't comply with the rules per the link above, you can report the item(s) using the automated reporting feature (look for the link on the item page).  

 

If they are selling your PDF patterns on CD, then it is not a violation of listing policy, although it may be a violation of copyright.  In that case, if you're not an established eBay seller, you may not have much success in pursuing copyright infringement with eBay.  It's worth a try, but it will take up a lot of your time. 

Message 11 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

Actually I just checked and the listing has been taken down.  I wrote to the seller, gave her the name of someone who had bought the pattern as a PDF from me last year and asked if she was that person, and she didn't reply but took down the listing.  She had previously said she bought it on a cd from another eBay seller but didn't  have and couldn't remember the information - I didn't believe that statement.

Yes, she was selling photocopies of my PDF pattern - I think what annoyed me more was that she made more money off the pattern than I did!

Message 12 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

What you thought was your report to eBay on copyright infringement may have actually been a listing violation report, and it's possible eBay took down the listing themselves.  

 

I don't like to see such things happening, as those of us who create our own products know how much time, effort, research and care goes into our work.  As I said, my advice would be not to list digitally-delivered items on eBay at all.  Doing it "eBay-legally" is just too complicated and disadvantageous, and doing it any other way will end your selling days on eBay very quickly. 

 

Best of luck to you!

Message 13 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

Thank you, Rose-Dee - I very much appreciate your advice.  I shall stick to Etsy, Artfire, Ravelry and Craftsy!

Message 14 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

I think what annoyed me more was that she made more money off the pattern than I did!

 

On the bright side-- you now know that your patterns have a higher value than you thought and you can raise your prices accordingly.

 

Seriously, many crafters, especially women, undervalue their work. Sometimes we lock ourselves into the 'pink ghetto'.

 

Message 15 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

 Many sellers have completely suspended their digitally-delivered item listings for the time being until platforms like Etsy determine what they're doing about the new law.  

 

 

I wonder if that relates to sellers on etsy who don't have their own website or who don't sell digital downloads electronically on their own website? If you go to the Vat Moss Flowchart at the following link it asks "Do you only sell your eservices through a third party platform or marketplace? (For example not through your own website?)"  If the answer is yes then it says that the change in law doesn't apply.

 

https://whitehall-admin.production.alphagov.co.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/...

Message 16 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

 Many sellers have completely suspended their digitally-delivered item listings for the time being until platforms like Etsy determine what they're doing about the new law.  

 

 

I wonder if that relates to sellers on etsy who don't have their own website or who don't sell digital downloads electronically on their own website? If you go to the Vat Moss Flowchart at the following link it asks "Do you only sell your eservices through a third party platform or marketplace? (For example not through your own website?)"  If the answer is yes then it says that the change in law doesn't apply.

 

https://whitehall-admin.production.alphagov.co.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/...


Yes, that was my interpretation of the new ruling, i.e. that it should not apply to anyone selling on another (third party) platform, nor does it apply to anyone "manually" attaching PDF files to an email.  

 

However, the problem is that some platforms (like Etsy) have been dragging their heels about implementing a process to collect and remit the VAT on applicable items sold to EU buyers.  Failing any clear word on the process, many sellers have stopped offering digital downloads, fearing (perhaps unrealistically) that they will be held responsible for the lapse, or (more realistically) will suffer incidental damage if they continue to list such items -- for example through the platform being forced to shut down listings or sellers, as a result of the platform's own non-compliance.  The EU, and in particular HMRC, as you probably know, can be pretty strict about rooting out non-compliance.

 

Keep in mind that the platform in question has a lot of UK sellers who are now afraid to make a move until the venue takes steps to comply with the new ruling.  I'm fairly confident that Canadian and U.S. sellers are less likely to be made directly responsible for non-compliance, but there could be repercussions for the selling venue(s) who don't comply that might ultimately impact sellers.  It's still an issue in flux. 

 

Meanwhile of course, this whole change in VAT collection won't affect eBay aside from the few people who offer digitally-delivered items through Classifieds (which I imagine doesn't comprise too many sellers). 

 

 

Message 17 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission

 Failing any clear word on the process, many sellers have stopped offering digital downloads, fearing (perhaps unrealistically) that they will be held responsible for the lapse

 

So you're referring to sellers on etsy that also have their own site? If they are selling on etsy only then they shouldn't have to worry about the new rule..correct?

 

Meanwhile of course, this whole change in VAT collection won't affect eBay aside from the few people who offer digitally-delivered items through Classifieds (which I imagine doesn't comprise too many sellers). 

 

Is there a way on ebay to set up a listing so that it is an automatic download versus by email? I didn't think that there was a way to do that here.
Message 18 of 19
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Someone is selling my PDF knitting pattern without permission


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

 Failing any clear word on the process, many sellers have stopped offering digital downloads, fearing (perhaps unrealistically) that they will be held responsible for the lapse

 

So you're referring to sellers on etsy that also have their own site? If they are selling on etsy only then they shouldn't have to worry about the new rule..correct?

 

No, the point is that the situation is still unresolved on E--y.  If the platform itself doesn't implement the ruling, many sellers (probably especially those in the UK) fear they may pay the price if HMRC or other EU authority forces the site to shut down sellers who are offering digital downloads or decides to go after the sellers themselves to collect.  I suppose those scenarios are conceivable, but frankly I think it's a bit of an overreaction.  

 

Strictly speaking, I read the ruling as you do, i.e. that individual sellers on another entity's platform are not liable to pay the new VAT, but many sellers are avoiding digital download items at the moment out of an abundance of caution, until E--y makes a clear announcement on how they are going to handle the tax.  

 

As I said, for sellers in the UK/EU especially it's probably not a bad idea to be wary until a clear process is made available on the platform.  It has nothing to do with sellers on E--y having their own site, but with where the items are actually sold.  A seller on someone else's platform should not be paying the tax, but will pay it if an applicable item is sold on their own website.  

 

This is the EU desperately looking for ways to increase revenue.  They've discovered that there is a lot of commerce going on that they've never captured to date.  It had to end someday I suppose.  As to the eventual mechanism for collection of the VAT on those items, I think sellers will either end up having the tax deducted by their selling site provider as part of applicable transactions, or -- hopefully -- there will be some means of adding the tax onto the sales price, so that the buyer pays but the platform remits.  Rather a mess if you ask me.  

 

Meanwhile of course, this whole change in VAT collection won't affect eBay aside from the few people who offer digitally-delivered items through Classifieds (which I imagine doesn't comprise too many sellers). 

 

Is there a way on ebay to set up a listing so that it is an automatic download versus by email? I didn't think that there was a way to do that here.
 
There may or may not be, but I haven't listed digitally-delivered items on eBay for several years, so I really don't know what eBay has done with digital items lately. 

 

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