eBay

rocketscollectibles · ‎09-01-2021

Hi there.

As some already knows i'm selling cards. I'm not offering US shipping yet cause i'm trying to figuring out things since a while... Apparently US are the biggest cards buyers so it would make sense for me to trying to offer it, in a viable way. Small packet is not really an option at 9$ + additionnal ebay fees on it. And letterpost cost 1.30$...

That being said. Whats the risks of shipping goods and non paper material (plastic) with letterpost? From what i understand we legally are not supposed to use canada post letterpost since any item sold is considered as goods and goods are in the unnaceptable items. But i wonder whats the sanctions if the package getting caught. Is the worst thing could be it's being grasped, lose it and INR? Can we have any penalty from canada post or the gouvrnement, receive a fine? What's the legal risks of it?

Also, i already know that one card in a plastic toploader taped to a sheet, in a white envelope, looks flat and like a letter. But what about bubble mailers, are they more suspected to have goods in them? Does bubble mailers are accepted with letterpost? I did not read anything anywhere about it. Anyone can share what they are using to ship?

Funny fact, it's supposed to be illegal to ship an item sold using canada post letterpost, but on ebay, we have the option to offer letterpost... Not confusing at all when you are a noob tryng to figuring out things...

reallynicestamps · ‎09-01-2021

we legally are not supposed to use canada post letterpost

Oh go on, be a devil.

Seriously, if it's flat (even with a rigid plastic holder, send it LetterMail. If your PO gives you a hassle, toss the item into the nearest mailbox.

This is what the terminal looks like.

Basically no one is going to care- except maybe the postal clerk who takes it at the corner.

I have had LetterPost returned for short postage, but usually a brainfart like putting 92c on a "letter" to the USA. (The senior moments can add up when you"re also blonde.)

lady.stark · ‎09-01-2021

I still use Letter Post from time to time to ship trading cards, postcards or photos. As long as it is "paper" stuff* with the right amount of stamps on the envelope, it should arrive at the destination without a problem. Most buyers are honest.

* My paper stuff is always protected with plastic and cardboard. Sometimes with bubble mailers.

beavosorus · ‎09-01-2021

I ship my cheap cards via Letterpost to the US. The biggest issue is "package not recieved". Some are valid, others are not (just looking to get a free card). You have no tracking info so it is very risky. Only ship Letterpost what you can afford to lose.

I have never had a problem with "using" letterpost. I have shipped many things across the border using this option. I have never tried to hide what I am shipping. I didn't realize it was illegal as you mention.

Bubble envelope, regular envelope, I even have a speciality boxes that qualify for the Letterpost rate.

As I said the biggest thing is you have no recourse to item not recieved claims. Be sure and keep refunds as part of your business model. Also the transit time can be rediculously long.

t_bjarnason · ‎09-02-2021

we legally are not supposed to use canada post letterpost

The term "goods" is a pretty general term that Canada Post uses to discourage people from trying to ship general merchandise that isn't flat and/or paper through lettermail. That being said, Canada Post does say that paper goods, CDs, basically anything that lays flat, isn't specifically on their restricted list (dangerous or illegal, can be sent via lettermail as long as it's within the weight and size limits. Plastic items like top loaders are perfectly fine too. Banks send plastic credit and debit cards through the mail all the time - some banks even have metal ones.

As far as sold goods being restricted, how would CP ever know? How do they know I'm not sending my 3rd cousin down in Texas a couple cards? They have no idea if the cards have been part of a sale. Worst case scenario is the item is returned to you.

are bubble mailers are accepted with letterpost?

They sure are! I use them exclusively for lettermail. For oversized lettermail they are perfectly fine as you can have up to 2cm thickness. Standard lettermail with bubble mailers is a little more tricky as you only can have a max thickness of 5mm. For these, I use a 4x8 bubble mailer I buy off Amazon as they are quite thin. With 2 cards in the 1 toploader, the weight is about 22g so it's still well under the 30g max for a $.92 stamp.

Now a disclaimer on the bubble mailers with a $.92 stamp: I've sent several dozens of these without ever having an issue. They do slide through the letter measurement tool at the post office, but just barely. Technically they are supposed to fall through the tool without assistance, but these do rub a bit and need a gentle push. Therefore, it could be an issue if you get a clerk that's having a bad day.

As far as US buyers, I don't get a lot (about 9% of my sales) but I do use lettermail all the time without issue. I think opening up your items to US buyers would be smart now that you've been selling for a while. It's really not any different than selling in Canada and gives you a ton of extra selling potential.

rocketscollectibles · ‎09-02-2021

Thanks guys

@t_bjarnason So at the end you are shipping letterpost the same way you are for lettermail? Or you trying to hide a bit that it's plastic and cards? I mean if you have like 20 cards to ship, would you think it's fine to put them in a resealable sleeve and ships letterpost, even if it's looks like a deck and not totally flat?

I actually added shipping to US for my 1 to 2 cards listings, but still hesitant for my 4 cards+ ones. I got 20 cards listings too, that are totally fine with lettermail, but not sure yet about letterpost

For the bubble mailers i got the 4x8 too that's what i have since the beginning. My worry was more about letterpost because it's not standard enveloppes so i thought they could be more suspected to carry goods and things other than paper. Cause it does not make sense to ship paper with a bubble mailer lmao If my job would be to have an eye on the mail, to me it would be obvious than any bubble mailer in letterpost potentially contain non paper material

The term "goods" is a pretty general term that Canada Post uses to discourage people from trying to ship general merchandise that isn't flat and/or paper through lettermail

Goods means merchandise, merchandise means anything we sell. Don't the reason it's illegal to ship with letterpost is because we have no customs form to fill so we don't declare the value of the sale and bypass taxes and duties. This is the logic i see from this

t_bjarnason · ‎09-02-2021

you trying to hide a bit that it's plastic and cards?

No I’m not trying to hide anything. When I was starting out, I told a few of the postal clerks what I was shipping and even showed them the toploader, card and bubble mailer and they measured it gave me recommendations on the best way to send it via lettermail, which was basically “if it fits, its ships!”.

to me it would be obvious than any bubble mailer in letterpost potentially contain non paper material

There is nothing that says that lettermail can only contain paper items exclusively.

the reason it's illegal to ship with letterpost is because we have no customs form to fill so we don't declare the value of the sale and bypass taxes and duties

You are correct - this is the reason why it’s not technically allowed. But the reality of it is:

No one knows or can prove that the item is part of a sale, and more importantly - no one is checking
US buyers are allowed $800 duty-free, and since you’re not sending anything even remotely close to that amount via lettermail, there is no duty to claim on it anyways.
State taxes are collected at the time of purchase through eBay (if applicable) and not through the postal system. You paid tax to send the item, so your postage is valid.

In summary, there is absolutely nothing to worry about or to hide when sending cards via lettermail. This includes the cards, toploaders, team bags, and any extra packaging you might include. Even if it’s not perfectly flat, if it’s under the 2cm for oversize and isn’t a restricted item, it’s good to go.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎09-02-2021

@t_bjarnason wrote:
you trying to hide a bit that it's plastic and cards?

No I’m not trying to hide anything. When I was starting out, I told a few of the postal clerks what I was shipping and even showed them the toploader, card and bubble mailer and they measured it gave me recommendations on the best way to send it via lettermail, which was basically “if it fits, its ships!”.

to me it would be obvious than any bubble mailer in letterpost potentially contain non paper material

There is nothing that says that lettermail can only contain paper items exclusively.

the reason it's illegal to ship with letterpost is because we have no customs form to fill so we don't declare the value of the sale and bypass taxes and duties

You are correct - this is the reason why it’s not technically allowed. But the reality of it is:

No one knows or can prove that the item is part of a sale, and more importantly - no one is checking
US buyers are allowed $800 duty-free, and since you’re not sending anything even remotely close to that amount via lettermail, there is no duty to claim on it anyways.
State taxes are collected at the time of purchase through eBay (if applicable) and not through the postal system. You paid tax to send the item, so your postage is valid.

In summary, there is absolutely nothing to worry about or to hide when sending cards via lettermail. This includes the cards, toploaders, team bags, and any extra packaging you might include. Even if it’s not perfectly flat, if it’s under the 2cm for oversize and isn’t a restricted item, it’s good to go.

@rocketscollectibles

Little follow up especially for anything mailed by letter internationally. Does customs check every package looking for a Wayne, Bobby or Babe card? No. They don't had time. They scan at their decretion. Just have to watch those Border shows to see what they do. They are just looking for anything questionable....In other words illegal.

If you are selling anything of higherish value and do not want to risk its loss use a tracked secure service with the proper customs paperwork. It's for your protection. And most likely it will get to its final destination much quicker than something sent letter service.

-Lotz

femmefan1946 · ‎09-02-2021

If you are selling anything of higherish value and do not want to risk its loss

Definitely.

Know your risk tolerance and use tracked (parcel) services when your tolerance is reached.

BTW- although eBay requires Signature Confirmation for proof of delivery only when the value of the shipment is over $650, you can add Signature Confirmation (for a buck fifty last time I looked) to any package.

You should warn the customer in advance that you have done so "for his protection" since he will have to sign for the shipment at the post office. This is something a sketchy buyer does not want to do.

lady.stark · ‎09-02-2021

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
Thanks guys

@t_bjarnason So at the end you are shipping letterpost the same way you are for lettermail? Or you trying to hide a bit that it's plastic and cards? I mean if you have like 20 cards to ship, would you think it's fine to put them in a resealable sleeve and ships letterpost, even if it's looks like a deck and not totally flat?

I think 20 cards in one pile would be over 2 cm thick. Unless you seperate them in "piles" and tape them together to form a bigger rectangle. Or put them in 8.5 x 11 protective sleeves designed specifically for trading cards (9 per sheet). Otherwise, if your package is less than 2 cm thick, you can ship lettermail (which is the same thing as letterpost by the way).

rocketscollectibles · ‎09-02-2021

I think 20 cards in one pile would be over 2 cm thick

Far to be. In a 4x8 bubble mailer, 40 cards in 40 penny sleeves + 1 toploader, in a resealable sleeve and still not hitting 2cm. I have a CP measurement tool i already tested that. And i probably that only the cards in a resealable sleeve, without the individual penny sleeves and the one toploader, could be 50-60 cards easy

dinomitesales · ‎09-02-2021

to me it would be obvious than any bubble mailer in letterpost potentially contain non paper material

There is nothing that says that lettermail can only contain paper items exclusively.

You're confusing Lettermail (domestic) with Letter-post (international). This discussion is about the latter. While you can mail pretty much anything domestically via Lettermail, there definitely are restrictions when sending 'letter'-sized items outside the country. As @rocketscollectibles mentioned this is because goods leaving the country require a customs declaration.

Canada Post is quite clear on this. Acceptable items for international Letter-post are "Items made of paper or other material with the general characteristics of paper (for example, photographs)". Unacceptable items include, well, pretty much everything else (and, technically, anything you sell on eBay is considered 'goods').

To OP: Don't worry about sending trading cards (or other flat, paper-ish items) outside the country via Letter-post. You'll be fine. Everyone does it. The worst thing that will happen is the item will be returned to you with postage due. Don't worry if it's in a bubble mailer. Just be cognizant of the value of the item you're sending and be prepared to make the occasional refund for "Item Not Received" claims.

rocketscollectibles · ‎09-02-2021

Yeah INR is not my worry really (unless the frequencie is really higher than domestic?). It's really about all the legality of what we can ship with letterpost, whats the risks of not respecting it, whats the odds to get caught and all that

Canada Post is quite clear on this. Acceptable items for international Letter-post are "Items made of paper or other material with the general characteristics of paper (for example, photographs)"

I personally find that there's grey zones there and that it's not 100% clear. Aluminium can have the characteristics of paper, and in theory this is metal. What's the characteristics of paper, soft material? Flat material? Non toxic material? Non metal material? Non plastic? Safe material? Many materials can have the characteristics of paper, while having nothing to do with it. I have a bandana that i could say have 100% those characteristics, it's not paper at all, acceptable? It's not detailed what they mean by paper characteristics they let place to personal judgement. And from what i read, one CP to another they could tell you something different about whats acceptable and whats not. We see it very often in here when we talk about shipping that everyone sharing different informations, it proves how unclear CP is and that they have grey zones

I personally thought that postal system was more strict than that and was more controled, that's why i worry maybe too much. No wonder how the drugs can cross borders lmao. I understand that you could tape cocaine bags on a sheet in a white envelope with false adresses and just never get caught. And i'm there worrying about shipping pokemon cards

t_bjarnason · ‎09-03-2021

I understand that you could tape cocaine bags on a sheet in a white envelope with false adresses and just never get caught. And i'm there worrying about shipping pokemon cards

😂😂😂 So funny, but so true.

In all seriousness though, you bring up a valid point: CP is full of grey areas. It's because of the massive volume of they process and the timeframe they need to do it in. If they had time to check every package against their rule book, things would be a lot different. It's all about shipping smart, understanding the rules, and knowing how to navigate those grey areas. That all comes with experience and testing the system yourself. Experience = confidence = comfort 😉

@dinomitesales:

Yes, you are correct. I was thinking about domestic and not international, at least not to anywhere other than the US.

jorstev-5425 · ‎11-12-2022

Any issue with items not being received by the buyer?

jorstev-5425 · ‎11-12-2022

That’s so **bleep**.. eBay allows you to use lettermail but hold seller fully accountable for the risk involved… buyer gets no risk. I just don’t understand how that can be. Seller should know risks too… 50% reimbursement MAX

reallynicestamps · ‎11-12-2022

ZOMBIE THREAD FROM 2021.

The problem with zombie threads is that the information may no longer be accurate or applicable.

Seller should know risks too… 50% reimbursement MAX

The seller may not be able to prove that the letter has been delivered, but he also cannot prove that it was never sent.

A really crooked seller could ship nothing and keep half the payment for .... nothing.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-12-2022

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
I think 20 cards in one pile would be over 2 cm thick

Far to be. In a 4x8 bubble mailer, 40 cards in 40 penny sleeves + 1 toploader, in a resealable sleeve and still not hitting 2cm. I have a CP measurement tool i already tested that. And i probably that only the cards in a resealable sleeve, without the individual penny sleeves and the one toploader, could be 50-60 cards easy

@rocketscollectibles

You could also go in layers of 4, 5 or 6 in a larger sized envelop. With cardboard back and front. Postage would be only slightly higher. Do not bend on front. The thinner anything is the less likely the item is going to get held for questioning. If you have the wiggle room with whatever you charged for postage you could split into 2 shipments. (Just let the buyer know that you've done that if you go that route.)

-Lotz

rocketscollectibles · ‎11-12-2022

Shipping is seller responsability, and tracking is a proof of shipping. Sellers could ship nothing and keep buyers money with your idea. It's not logical

reallynicestamps · ‎11-12-2022

For shipping things that really really should not be bent, the best product I have found is Corplast, a type of plastic corrugated board used for temporary outdoor signs.

It is light and stiff, and if you use two layers at 90 degrees from each other (like+) and tape them they are very very difficult to bend.

But just as "Good Cheap Fast- pick two" Corplast is stiff light and expensive.
https://www.uline.ca/BL_1854/Plastic-Corrugated-Pads?pricode=DK425&AdKeyword=uline%20coroplast&AdMat...