eBay

love2shoppe4me · ‎01-27-2017

What happens if someone from US buys something from you, then decides it wasn't the way they expected it to be, then starts a return. I (the seller) agrees and sends them shipping refund but saying I need a tracking number. They send the package with a tracking number that is not traceable in Canada. It gets lost.

What's the procedure from here? Any clue's?

dutchman48 · ‎01-27-2017

Did you look the tracking number up on USPS?

If you don't get anything back, and tracking shows no delivery, you should not have to refund.

It is possible you got scammed for the return costs.

What was the item worth, what was it, and what did you send them for return shipping costs?

ypdc_dennis · ‎01-27-2017

@goldtreasures4u wrote:
...They send the package with a tracking number that is not traceable in Canada. It gets lost.

What USPS tracked service does not have tracking with Canada Post?

And what does that tracking number show on the USPS website?

...

love2shoppe4me · ‎01-27-2017

It is a RE (registered mail) number. It shows that it has been in Canada customs, but not beyond since two weeks. 😞 Canada Post, doesn't track it.

love2shoppe4me · ‎01-27-2017

It has not gone beyond Canada Customs for two weeks. It was worth several hundred dollars. I was told, that even I don't get the item back or it is lost in the mail, I am responsible because I paid return shipping.

dutchman48 · ‎01-27-2017

For registered mail, that is the norm. It is trackable in Canada but only by the person sending it, not the recipient.

The sender will have to contact USPS to put a trace on the parcel, they in turn will contact Canada Post who will see where it is and then notify USPS who notifies the sender who in turn will notify you.

Did you tell them to send it registered mail or did they choose that method.

It is not acceptable to Ebay or Paypal as it does not have on line viewable confirmation.

love2shoppe4me · ‎01-27-2017

No, I told them to send it back with a tracking number and to tell me what the cost was. They said it was 23 US and I reimbursed them through Paypal. Only when I received the tracking number did I realize it was registered mail.

When I first mailed it to them, it was free shipping to them, I sent it two day delivery xpresspost, with a signature which they insisted on. $$

I couldn't send them a return label as, I can't create one for the US through Canada Post. This is why when the return case was opened up, I was told to reimburse the buyer for the shipping.

pjcdn2005 · ‎01-27-2017

goldtreasures4u wrote:
It has not gone beyond Canada Customs for two weeks. It was worth several hundred dollars. I was told, that even I don't get the item back or it is lost in the mail, I am responsible because I paid return shipping.

I've heard that too although you would think that would only apply if you picked the service and purchased the label. Here is the info from the Mbg...

If the seller chooses to offer the buyer an untracked returns label, the buyer will not be required to provide proof of delivery of the return if eBay is asked to step in and help. The seller will be responsible for the reimbursement amount. Find out more about reimbursement.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

I didn't see that info on .ca but I'm sure that it is applicable here too. Plus, the buyer probably purchased on .com so the .com rules would apply if they are different. Since this is more than just a few dollars you might want to fight it since you were specific that the buyer use tracking. But they obviously didn't do their die diligence or the p.o. goofed and gave them the wrong info. If you fo fight, you may end up with an unresolved claim.

This isnt a good situation and I'm not sure what to suggest. I realize that Raphael isn't on .ca anymore but you might want to write him for advice. Raphael@ebay.com

dutchman48 · ‎01-27-2017

I am smelling a real scam from a buyer that knows all the ropes.

How do you even know what they sent you by registered mail?

readinglady10 · ‎01-27-2017

I recently got a tracked package from the US. It took two day to get from Nebraska to Chicago. It then sat in ISC Chicago (USPS) for 17 days before it was sent on to Canada.

Maybe you return is sitting there

i.am.vivian · ‎01-28-2017

@goldtreasures4u wrote:
It is a RE (registered mail) number. It shows that it has been in Canada customs, but not beyond since two weeks. 😞 Canada Post, doesn't track it.

If you enter the number you were given here, does it show it has not moved out of Canadian Customs?

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction_input

And if you enter the number here, does Canada Post tell you anything at all?

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/track/personal/findByTrackNumber?execution=e1s1

I like to keep an open mind because there are people who are not sellers that don't mail things around the world all that much and so still believe that Registered Mail is the "safest", so their first inclination would be to send something Registered.

Registered can be slow and is not usually tracked the way a parcel sent USPS Priority would be. Priority would be a lot more expensive than First Class for about the same service but on an item that expensive I think the insurance would be better. I don't know what the differences are but if I were mailing expensive jewelry I would want it tracked and insured. Lots of people won't ask questions though, so may have just told the postal clerk to send it Registered.

@goldtreasures4u wrote:
I was told, that even I don't get the item back or it is lost in the mail, I am responsible because I paid return shipping.

Who told you that?

When you pay return shipping you are entitled to get your item back. You did tell the buyer via eBay Messages to purchase a tracked service, and you paid for it.

If it never arrives I would think you would have the same protection for a package coming this way as the buyer has when it is going the other way. If tracking does not prove delivery then the sender does not win.

A tracking number has to show that the item has been received. If you never receive it I don't see how you can be made to refund something you have not gotten back.

I think if it were me at this point I'd be more worried that the buyer did not label it "Returned goods" and that I'd be getting dinged for import charges I'd have to first pay and then try to get reimbursed.

love2shoppe4me · ‎01-29-2017

It does show on the USPS site that the parcel has been tracked as far as Canada Customs. Yes, I had told the customer, via messages, to include a tracking number and to put on the parcel (returned item). Hopefully they did it.

When I inquired about this order (as a what if scenario) I was told by Customer service that if the parcel gets lost in the mail, I would be held responsible, because I paid for the shipping cost. Even though, they have proof that I requested a tracking number and told them I would reimburse their shipping costs whatever it would be.

They chose to send it perhaps a less safe way and if it doesn't get to me, I'm hooped. 😞 Customer service advice for me in the future - don't sell internationally. Sell domestic.

So far, fingers crossed on this item, that some word, I find out soon.

sylviebee · ‎01-29-2017

I had a return a couple of months ago that was lost in the mail. She did send it with a tracking number and she paid for return shipping.

The case just ran its course and the buyer never did receive a refund.

I'm not sure why it seems be a different scenario when the seller pays for return shipping with or without tracking, but for some reason that does seem to be the case.

However, if the buyer shipped with insurance, then it should be possible for the buyer to file a claim with USPS.

Not sure how that works in the States.

femmefan1946 · ‎01-29-2017

I believe more and more that applicants for Customer Service are given an IQ test and are only hired if they fail.

I was told by Customer service that if the parcel gets lost in the mail, I would be held responsible, because I paid for the shipping cost.

Lordie lordie lordie.

To get a refund the buyer must be able to PROVE that the item has been delivered back to the seller.

Shipping does not count.

Who paid for the return does not count.

Only PROOF OF DELIVERY.

Now since Registration does not offer Proof of Delivery internationally, if you were a dishonest person, you would never be held to making the refund, since there would be no proof of return delivery.

Note that in the USA when a seller sends a Return Shipping Label, he does not need to refund and the case fails if the buyer does not use it. (And further USPS does not charge him for the unused Label.)

As an honest and ethical person however, you will refund when the item arrives.

Which it probably will, eventually.

Meanwhile, keep in touch with your customer and nag Canada Post.

pjcdn2005 · ‎01-29-2017

@femmefan1946 wrote:
I believe more and more that applicants for Customer Service are given an IQ test and are only hired if they fail.

I was told by Customer service that if the parcel gets lost in the mail, I would be held responsible, because I paid for the shipping cost.

Lordie lordie lordie.

To get a refund the buyer must be able to PROVE that the item has been delivered back to the seller.
Shipping does not count.
Who paid for the return does not count.
Only PROOF OF DELIVERY.

Now since Registration does not offer Proof of Delivery internationally, if you were a dishonest person, you would never be held to making the refund, since there would be no proof of return delivery.
Note that in the USA when a seller sends a Return Shipping Label, he does not need to refund and the case fails if the buyer does not use it. (And further USPS does not charge him for the unused Label.)

As an honest and ethical person however, you will refund when the item arrives.
Which it probably will, eventually.
Meanwhile, keep in touch with your customer and nag Canada Post.

According to the eBay info in post 8, if the seller purchased a registered label for the buyer and the seller did not receive the item back the seller would still have to refund. Obviously the seller did not and could not send a label in this situation but I've heard that customer service still considers the seller as being responsible whether the item is delivered or not because they paid for the label and the service is not trackable.

I'm not saying that it is right or fair but I have heard that cs interprets the rules like that. Hopefully they will rule differently this time if the buyer pushes for a refund. It would be easy enough for eBay to figure out whether the seller sent enough money for a trackable service and see if the buyer is the one at fault here but I doubt they will check on that.

To prevent situations like this, I do specify to the buyer exactly which service they should use when they want to return something.

sylviebee · ‎01-30-2017

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
According to the eBay info in post 8, if the seller purchased a registered label for the buyer and the seller did not receive the item back the seller would still have to refund. Obviously the seller did not and could not send a label in this situation but I've heard that customer service still considers the seller as being responsible whether the item is delivered or not because they paid for the label and the service is not trackable.

I'm not saying that this is not the policy. It might well be, but I'd like to point out yet another reason why it's problematic.

I don't know how USPS handles insurance on items, so as an example I'll use our Canadian Tracked Package and Expedited as examples.

If a Canadian buyer wants to return an item to an American seller and it's a SNAD case, then the US seller would send the funds for the buyer to purchase the label. I think that it goes without saying that the money is for a tracked service (but that's a separate issue).

If the package gets lost en route, then the Canadian buyer would have to file a case with the CPO to receive a refund for the insured amount which would be $100, or possibly more if the buyer shipped via Expedited and purchased extra insurance.

Then the CPO would refund the buyer. If the buyer also receives a refund from the seller if the item is lost then that would be a double refund.

(An Added Thought: Recently someone posted some odd information about how the CPO/PP is doing refunds for returned items that really made no sense. This makes me wonder if the issue described by that poster is somehow related to this issue. To me it all seems like a convoluted mess.))

love2shoppe4me · ‎01-30-2017

The buyer wanted a return label. I tried to send one, but I can't purchase a USPS label through Canada Post. CS told me to work out an arrangement to pay for shipping with the buyer. So I asked the buyer to purchase a label with a tracking number and I would reimburse them.

The buyer said it was going to cost $23 US ($30 cdn). I sent this amount to the buyer via paypal. It was the exact same amount that costed me to ship it in the first place(free shipping to them). (Xpresspost tracking, with a signature).

When I received the tracking number I realized it started with a RE, so they sent it registered tracking, but is not traceable through CP.

This is when I started to worry and asked CS, if this package doesn't get delivered, who would be held responsible, they said I would be because I didn't purchase a return label.(of which I couldn't)

It's all documented in the messages and calls I made to CS, hopefully their instructions will not cost me dearly.

sylviebee · ‎01-30-2017

Yes, I understand what you're saying.

It will probably turn up soon and likely you're worried over nothing.

However, some Canadian services come with automatic insurance up to $100, and if that's the case for this US service as well (I don't know), then "someone" should eventually be able to file an insurance claim "if" the item is in fact lost, which is probably isn't.

That's (only) one of the reasons this process you've described doesn't make a lot of sense.

pjcdn2005 · ‎01-30-2017

(An Added Thought: Recently someone posted some odd information about how the CPO/PP is doing refunds for returned items that really made no sense. This makes me wonder if the issue described by that poster is somehow related to this issue. To me it all seems like a convoluted mess.))

If you are thinking of the same thing that I am, that was about a seller trying to collect insurance for a damaged parcel from CP and being told that it was paid out to PayPal or PB. It is a mess all right but it is a CP issue, I don't see how that would be related to an eBay returns problem. But perhaps you are thinking of something else.