eBay

rose-dee · ‎08-30-2018

All right, this is beyond my comprehension. I thought the new sign-in page allowing logging on to eBay via Facebook was bad enough (didn't eBay spend the last 2 decades walling itself off from outside contact and punishing anyone who tried such shenanigans?).

But the listing below was actually being advertised today up front and centre on the main landing page of eBay.ca. Huhhhh?? I thought mystery listings or lottery-style listings, i.e. undisclosed and non-specific items in a "black box" were completely verboten. If someone can enlighten me as to how these listings (and there are a number of them exactly alike, from a relatively new seller) are not in direct contravention of eBay policy, I'd be interested. Or maybe eBay knows they're against policy but were just too cute not to advertise (I assume the seller is paying for premium exposure). Yikes.

Item # 163219030990 et al

reallynicestamps · ‎08-30-2018

@happy_pigeon

rose-dee · ‎08-30-2018

Yes, well, the answer will be interesting, if not satisfying.

Where there is advertising money to be made, I suppose anything goes, "surprise box" or no.

happy_pigeon · ‎08-30-2018

@rose-dee wrote:

All right, this is beyond my comprehension. I thought the new sign-in page allowing logging on to eBay via Facebook was bad enough (didn't eBay spend the last 2 decades walling itself off from outside contact and punishing anyone who tried such shenanigans?).

But the listing below was actually being advertised today up front and centre on the main landing page of eBay.ca. Huhhhh?? I thought mystery listings or lottery-style listings, i.e. undisclosed and non-specific items in a "black box" were completely verboten. If someone can enlighten me as to how these listings (and there are a number of them exactly alike, from a relatively new seller) are not in direct contravention of eBay policy, I'd be interested. Or maybe eBay knows they're against policy but were just too cute not to advertise (I assume the seller is paying for premium exposure). Yikes.

Item # 163219030990 et al

Hi there,

Good question and I can understand why you're asking it. I think this is probably the policy you're referring to:

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/policies/listing-bonus-prize-giveaway-raffle.html

It does say that sellers are not allowed to sell "mystery"-style boxes where the contents are not identified in the listing.

This particular item is being sold under the conditions set out in the second paragraph of the help article, refers to the promotion of these items through eBay or an approved third-party working with eBay:

"We may run such promotions on eBay sites, and we may allow our partners or third-party companies to run promotions that follow applicable laws."

It isn't so much a problem with selling mystery boxes, per se, but an issue with them being sold with no governance. Without oversight to ensure that buyers are getting a square deal on the contents of the box, it would be easy for these types of items have the potential to quickly become problematic for both buyers and sellers.

So you're correct about the policy; this item is being sold under an exception to the policy.

hlmacdon · ‎08-30-2018

@rose-dee wrote:
All right, this is beyond my comprehension. I thought the new sign-in page allowing logging on to eBay via Facebook was bad enough (didn't eBay spend the last 2 decades walling itself off from outside contact and punishing anyone who tried such shenanigans?).

That feature just uses facebook's API to link the two accounts and authenticate/log you in, it doesn't allow you to do anything beyond that and only ebay/facebook see your data. It's not uncommon for sites to use gmail, twitter, or facebook logins these days as it makes things more convenient than managing a bunch of separate logins and allows a site to gather demographics data about their users.

I find the promotion of mystery boxes an odd one as well. Not a fan of them or the reason retailers use them. Games of chance belong in a lotto kiosk.

kawartha-ephemera · ‎08-30-2018

Why would ebay want to allow users to sign in with their FB account credentials? Not sure of the benefit to ebay. Perhaps FB shares some of the mountains of data they collect regarding ebay's users activities. I would never, ever consider using my FB or Google credentials to signin to anything but their own services.

hlmacdon · ‎08-30-2018

@kawartha-ephemera wrote:
Why would ebay want to allow users to sign in with their FB account credentials? Not sure of the benefit to ebay. Perhaps FB shares some of the mountains of data they collect regarding ebay's users activities. I would never, ever consider using my FB or Google credentials to signin to anything but their own services.

A few reasons. It helps them better engage with a mobile audience where using oauth/oauth2 social logins is increasingly commonplace. The theory is you get a higher level of user engagement by making it one less thing for the user to manage, which is important with the finger jabber crowd. This aligns them with the direction they are moving the marketplace, which is towards a mobile friendly format. Facebook has the lion's share of the market for oauth/oauth2 logins hence why they would have looked to Facebook. There is also the convenience factor that can be given to the user with very little downside with ebay and it requires literally a couple of minutes to setup and maintain. I personally have over 50 different login/passwords between work and personal sites so I can see the utility even if I use an alternative most of the time. Also it provides some demographic details based on your public profile and what you choose to share when you give permission for the link. I'm not sure how much more info that realistically gives you over what you already provide to ebay, but by default it pulls your public profile information.

If you are on Facebook or Google services your information is already getting tracked, analyzed, and disseminated to third parties.

rose-dee · ‎08-31-2018

@happy_pigeon wrote:

Good question and I can understand why you're asking it. I think this is probably the policy you're referring to:

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/policies/listing-bonus-prize-giveaway-raffle.html

It does say that sellers are not allowed to sell "mystery"-style boxes where the contents are not identified in the listing.

This particular item is being sold under the conditions set out in the second paragraph of the help article, refers to the promotion of these items through eBay or an approved third-party working with eBay:

"We may run such promotions on eBay sites, and we may allow our partners or third-party companies to run promotions that follow applicable laws."

It isn't so much a problem with selling mystery boxes, per se, but an issue with them being sold with no governance. Without oversight to ensure that buyers are getting a square deal on the contents of the box, it would be easy for these types of items have the potential to quickly become problematic for both buyers and sellers.

So you're correct about the policy; this item is being sold under an exception to the policy.

Thank you for replying. Yes, that is the policy I was thinking of. I expect that it isn't so much a matter of oversight as that if a seller pays enough to advertise, the policy is waived and the exception can be used. This particular seller is relatively new, with a FB score below 400, and not a great number of listings. I have to assume that eBay thought the mystery boxes were an inherently good marketing idea to allow such a small seller to list them.

The question is: does eBay actually know exactly what is in each of these boxes? If not, I really don't see how this type of listing is any different from the illegal "mystery" box listings. Will eBay definitively stand by buyers who may be disappointed, hoping for one thing and getting another?

No doubt these lottery boxes will sell, there is no question the listings generate excitement. How we'd all love to sell jack-in-the-box items without having to reveal the contents. It still seems like a recipe for trouble to me, but what do I know, I've only been around here for 16 years. I'm just dismayed that eBay would make such an exception. Incidentally, what does it cost to get a pass from the rules?

rose-dee · ‎08-31-2018

Hmmm... let's dig a little deeper into this funny business. Sometimes it's illuminating to take a closer look when such anomalies pop up. Perhaps someone at eBay can explain these facts:

- The seller noted in my original post has just over 300 FB points, 197 from sales in the past year, but over 400 FB he's left for others on purchases. Of the latter, there are quite a number of duplicate purchases from the same seller, and all those recent purchases are "Private" listings.

- Although the seller's FB score says 100%, a little examination shows he has had 6 neutrals in the past year, most complaining about the contents of the parcel or the shipping

- Of the 6 neutral complaints, one customer specifically mentions the items were shipped from a location in the United States (the location of the item I noted earlier was shown as Toronto, Canada). Another violation of eBay policy it seems.

- In flagrant disregard for eBay's policy concerning soliciting outside sales, the seller has placed, in the banner section of his store, an open invitation to contact his Sales Manager direct (including a helpful long-distance phone number) to arrange for wholesale purchases of any of the items listed.

Well, so far, 3 open violations of eBay policies (one that has been explained away as an "exception" to the rules).

So, again, my question is: why is eBay promoting this seller and his wares on its main landing page? My guess: the seller is a major drop-shipper of highly popular goods into Canada who is being deliberately sponsored/marketed by eBay and accordingly given a pass where policies are concerned. No wonder the rest of us have no chance if we strictly follow the rules.

hlmacdon · ‎08-31-2018

@rose-dee wrote:
- The seller noted in my original post has just over 300 FB points, 197 from sales in the past year, but over 400 FB he's left for others on purchases. Of the latter, there are quite a number of duplicate purchases from the same seller, and all those recent purchases are "Private" listings.

So, again, my question is: why is eBay promoting this seller and his wares on its main landing page? My guess: the seller is a major drop-shipper of highly popular goods into Canada who is being deliberately sponsored/marketed by eBay and accordingly given a pass where policies are concerned. No wonder the rest of us have no chance if we strictly follow the rules.

The problem lies with certain people in charge of marketing and executives and their own personal pet projects and likes. I've been shocked with some of the stuff that shows up on front/landing pages, not always by content but also by the sellers being promoted, including sellers with a poor track record. Sellers with as little as a few dozen feedback may get prime real estate because it fits some narrow personal interest of someone in a decision making capacity. That sends the wrong message and buying signals IMHO.

Curation efforts (which is entirely what the front/landing pages are, should reflect the merchandise that is actually sold on the site, not some aspirational pipe dream of what someone at ebay wants ebay to be at some indeterminate point in the future. I find it bizarre that some narrow product segments receive the level of attention and resources that they do, and in particular with regards to the size of the sellers. That you are seeing policy exceptions for sellers with apparently (who knows how many accounts various parties have after all) next to no lifetime value (on a revenue basis) to ebay as a customer is even more bizarre. I often look at the front page and wonder how representative it is of the actual sales volume being doing on the site.