eBay

rose-dee · ‎10-01-2018

Having just perused eBay's summary of the new User Agreement updates, I found this interesting notification of one change.

Not that we haven't had ads all over our listings in the past, but that practice has now been set in writing in the User Agreement, deemed accepted by the site user (seller) by virtue of the seller making use of the site (this latter legal "use is consent" is nothing new however; it has always been the case with eBay and many online venues). Not only will sellers now have no say over what these ads (or -- Nota Bene -- "other content", whatever that generic description means) will actually be, but where all that stuff will be displayed.

There has been an incremental creep in eBay's control over sellers' listing appearance (and even content) for years, but -- to quote Jim Morrison -- this is the end my friend. Now you'll no longer be listing and advertising your item in a space where buyers will be focused on your product, but you'll be paying eBay, by agreement, for a shared billboard that they can fill with who-knows-what sort of unrelated dross to capture the buyer's attention.

The changes to the User Agreement make it clear that no amount of complaining about this issue as it relates to listing fees will matter anymore (which I can only presume was the original impetus for this change).

"We have also added language in this section to indicate that payment by a seller of seller fees does not mean that the seller is purchasing exclusive rights to item exposure on eBay and eBay may display third-party advertisements or other content on eBay without consent, payment, fee reduction or credit to sellers. See updated language from the User Agreement reproduced on the table in the attached PDF."

pjcdn2005 · ‎10-01-2018

The same or similar wording was in the last user agreement. As far as I know it may have been there before that as well.

cumos55 · ‎10-01-2018

Some sellers on eBay.com have found things have been "added" to their listings....

(1) Best Offer added..... Seller removed the best offer and Best Offer reappeared....

The listings were either very old, or too expensive ... or ... too old and too expensive

(2) Free shipping added to a listing .... The situation was unique... something done by eBay... or a computer generated glitch

(3) Now when you search for a book, you can view several listings to compare prices and then look at the listing(s)

(1) an (2) might be an indication of things to come.....

Now more recently ... look at a listing of a sold item, and you get a view of something similar for sale, and then you can view the sold item. That something similar for sale is usually not quite right.

eBay is trying to make things happen..... Some sellers, and perhaps potential buyers get frustrated.

rose-dee · ‎10-02-2018

Well, according to eBay, these were changes to the previous User Agreement, so it may be they've expanded on earlier wording.

The fact remains that, together with other recent eBay policies, sellers are able to exercise less and less control over precisely what buyers see in a listing (and how they get there).

reallynicestamps · ‎10-02-2018

@cumos55

Now more recently ... look at a listing of a sold item, and you get a view of something similar for sale, and then you can view the sold item. That something similar for sale is usually not quite right.

@happy_pigeon

This is the one that really annoys me.

Who looks at closed listings?

The Buyer-- and we have already seen buyers who think the item they bought was relisted at a higher or lower price-- causing confusion and angst.

The Seller- checking to see that her description did cover the buyer's question or complaint- and ending up with a completely different listing-- causing confusion and angst.

Posters- trying to help buyers or sellers who are gripped by confusion or angst.

Anyone looking at a specific closed or Sold listing wants to see THAT specific closed or Sold listing.

I can think of no reason to see any other. I'm either the buyer (who already has purchased the Thing) or the seller (who sold the Thing and doesn't need another) or a busybody Boardie trying to help a fellow member.

Aaaaargh.

I feel a little better now.

zee-chan-jpn-books · ‎10-02-2018

popcorn

cumos55 · ‎10-02-2018

The following is present in each listing.....

Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.

Anonymous · ‎10-03-2018

That is what I have been saying that eBay has been "hacking" into our lisitngs for some time now!

happy_pigeon · ‎10-03-2018

@reallynicestamps wrote:

@cumos55

Now more recently ... look at a listing of a sold item, and you get a view of something similar for sale, and then you can view the sold item. That something similar for sale is usually not quite right.

@happy_pigeon

This is the one that really annoys me.

Who looks at closed listings?

The Buyer-- and we have already seen buyers who think the item they bought was relisted at a higher or lower price-- causing confusion and angst.

The Seller- checking to see that her description did cover the buyer's question or complaint- and ending up with a completely different listing-- causing confusion and angst.

Posters- trying to help buyers or sellers who are gripped by confusion or angst.

Anyone looking at a specific closed or Sold listing wants to see THAT specific closed or Sold listing.

I can think of no reason to see any other. I'm either the buyer (who already has purchased the Thing) or the seller (who sold the Thing and doesn't need another) or a busybody Boardie trying to help a fellow member.

Aaaaargh.

I feel a little better now.

I also enjoy looking at sold listings--there's lots of reasons why someone might need to.

I tried looking at a sold listing via a link from an old email I had, and it gave me the option to "View original item", which then took me to the listing, which looked mostly as it would have when live:

Are you not able to see that option?

cumos55 · ‎10-03-2018

The option to see the sold item is there.... just one click away.

femmefan1946 · ‎10-03-2018

Yes the option is there.

But I can't see any reason why, if what I am looking for is the original, that I can't see the original FIRST.

It's like Searching for 'Eileen Fisher silk Sz XL blue dress' and being shown a 'Toyota Corolla blue 1958 Local Pickup only', with a link up in the top right corner to the dress I wanted to see.

There are already ads for things eBay thinks are similar to the item Searched.

rose-dee · ‎10-03-2018

@cumos55 wrote:
The following is present in each listing.....

Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.

Yes, which makes no sense to me. I feel eBay cannot continue to have it both ways, i.e. make sellers completely responsible for their listings, while actually interfering in those listings -- how items are displayed and what is displayed around them.

As a matter of fact, eBay is largely now in charge of what is displayed on, in, and around the listing, as well as even altering certain content (for example, the "mobile summary" the eBay bots will create for sellers who forget -- or don't want -- to do it themselves). EBay manipulates sellers' photos for their own use. EBay makes live links a listing violation, yet places live ads and links all over our listings.

There is also, to my mind, the related question of whether all those flashing ads and links to other products (whether outside or inside eBay, whether related or unrelated to the item being sold) may actually be irritating and off-putting for buyers looking at our listings. I know I'm getting really sick and tired of being bombarded by all sorts of shouting ads while looking at a particular item.

The way I feel is that either you're paying an online venue for a service to advertise what you have for sale (not what everybody else and his dog is selling), or eBay should be reducing fees for sellers being more or less forced to share the page. Which, as we know, will never happen. What I can see happening is eBay giving sellers the option of paying "premium" fees for the luxury of a "quiet" listing page, another money-making racket for eBay. In other words, make the situation so obnoxious that people will pay to avoid it. Ironic, but yes, that would be foreseeable here.

cumos55 · ‎10-03-2018

Everything .... most likely ... depends on what is presented in the User Agreement.

rose-dee · ‎10-04-2018

Yes, that's quite true, everything does depend upon the User Agreement.

However, little by little over the years eBay has narrowed and revised that Agreement to restrict and box sellers in more and more. At the same time, eBay has ensured there is no legal recourse for what might otherwise reasonably be considered unfair practices. I can't imagine that many of the provisions contained in such a User Agreement would not be challenged or struck down by an open court of law.

A glaring example is exactly this issue -- paying fees to be able to list items for sale but having eBay use more and more of the paid listing space for its own purposes (i.e. making additional money off other, outside advertisers for the same showcase space, often allowing those advertisers to hawk their wares without the usual restrictions -- such as live links, URLs, etc. -- which eBay imposes on its own sellers).

Of course, it will never get to that point because the User Agreement also contains (unbeknownst to many folks) clauses which deem the user to have agreed that no challenge to its terms is permitted or possible through the normal route of lawsuits or judicial consideration. In other words, a closed loop where eBay can then add or change anything it wants to up to the point where its users actually start abandoning the site.

Personally I think this is one area where governmental legislation has lagged far behind reality. In no other commercial area that I can think of involving a contract between two parties, is that contract not subject to laws of a given jurisdiction, and open to dispute in the courts by either party for unfair practices or even breach of contract.

The problem is that these online user agreements are entirely and absolutely in the hands of the site owner who, being free of the possibility of legal challenge, can make their "contract" with users a moving target, literally breaching their own original terms to impose new restrictions. In normal commercial practice, such a modification would require the agreement of both parties to the amended agreement.

Ah, but wait -- by merely using the site, we are deemed (by the User Agreement of course!) to have acceded to and agreed to all the terms in the User Agreement, whether we've read them or not, and whether we like them or not.

I really do believe our legislators need to take a hard look at these sorts of contracts and set some parameters. I don't know exactly what that would look like, but surely some improvements can be made. Perhaps now that eBay is actually registered to do business in Canada, someone in Parliament may some day decide to bring this issue to the fore. It does after all affect many thousands of Canadians.