eBay

saigongeek · ‎06-25-2014

I'm baffled at the outcome of this result.

So I listed an item which included the eBay general description in it. At the bottom of the eBay description, it stated what was included in the lot. ex. Batteries, Charger, Stand. ( I didn't notice this in the eBay description.)

My description stated the item that was for sale and to look at the picture for a better idea of what the bidder would be getting.

(I now know to be more descriptive.)

I chose the "No Returns" Option and listed the item.

A bidder used the Buy It Now option and purchased the item and immediately started demanding faster shipping. I shipped it to the buy and he asked where the charger, batteries and stand were. I said that the lot only included what was only was in the picture as stated in my description.

The bidder escalated it to eBay, and eBay found the bidder in favor saying the confusion "Wasn't the bidder's fault." eBay refunded his money and the bidder got to keep the item.

Can someone explain to me how this is possible?

Not only am I out the money for the item, but now I lost the item as well.. If that doesn't sounds like thievery, I don't know what does.

Has anyone ever tried to demand a refund from a store without the return of the item?

pierrelebel · ‎06-25-2014

What is the listing number?

femmefan1946 · ‎06-25-2014

So I listed an item which included the eBay general description in it. At the bottom of the eBay description, it stated what was included in the lot. ex. Batteries, Charger, Stand. ( I didn't notice this in the eBay description.)

My description stated the item that was for sale and to look at the picture for a better idea of what the bidder would be getting.

(I now know to be more descriptive.)

Or in other words, you didn't read the canned description and posted a description that contradicted itself and the picture.

Proving that it is not only buyers that don't read.

Your buyer interpreted the listing optimistically. If he was using the Search/Compare feature, he may not have seen your contradictory description.

I chose the "No Returns" Option and listed the item.

In other words, you told eBay and the buyer that you never wanted to see the item again. You were taken at your word.

Neither No Returns nor No Refunds mean anything when you accept Paypal.

melissasminis · ‎06-25-2014

The buyer still has to return the item he received, can't keep it and get a refund too. What happened to "return for a refund". It seems this has been happening all too often these days. Paypal/Ebay had refunded buyers without returns, refunding buyers for returned shipments before the return made it to the seller, this is too much!

pierrelebel · ‎06-25-2014

"The buyer still has to return the item he received,"

Not always.

If the seller does not want items returned, it does not change the guarantee eBay offers buyers. They get refunded.

saigongeek · ‎06-25-2014

This buyer clearly looks for exploits in the eBay. They knew exactly what they were doing and knew how to manipulate the rules to get both the product and the money back.

Is there a place I can go to dispute this BS claim?

Also, what should I be doing when posting adds to protect myself against eBay and malicious buyers?

mdf_jersey · ‎06-25-2014

Seems to be a an on going problem. I cant see the seller not wanting the item returned, but I also wonder if you responded to the claim buy selecting the refund option ?

There does seem to be a common pattern with Ebay and Pay Pal prematurely refunding buyers before items are returned. I dont know if they are overloaded with claims and not enough staff, or are they so desperate to please buyers that they are willing to ruffle sellers.

mdf_jersey · ‎06-25-2014

Is there a place I can go to dispute this BS claim?

Once the buyer has been refunded there is nothing Ebay of Pay Pal will do. You are out of luck. Welcome to Ebay.

pierrelebel · ‎06-25-2014

I hate to navigate in the dark.

What is the listing number?

lizzier-ca · ‎06-25-2014

Just to let you know, pierrelebel, the listing number is not allowed to be posted in these circumstances, i.e. if there is a perceived violation of eBay's policies. It's the same with the seller's user id.

Anonymous · ‎06-25-2014

Lizzie, oh really??!! What a pity! We would love to see the items and also to see which sellers we can avoid to have similar problems. You are NOT helping by hiding those scammers behind eBay and give grief to sellers!!

It is high time eBay do something to protect sellers more than ever! Thanks.

Anonymous · ‎06-25-2014

Ask this seller for the listing number, only way to get around Lizze's not allow it to list the list number here.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-25-2014

@lizzier-ca wrote:
Just to let you know, pierrelebel, the listing number is not allowed to be posted in these circumstances, i.e. if there is a perceived violation of eBay's policies. It's the same with the seller's user id.

There is no need to post the seller's users id since the seller is the original poster of this thread. Is this a new rule that posters cannot post their own item numbers? It so, it is a ridiculous rule considering giving the item number out does not identify the buyer in any way.

saigongeek · ‎06-25-2014

Seems strange that moderators hide the protection of the buyer so much and care so little for it's sellers..

I've been selling on eBay for over a decade and have always vetted them.. now... I call myself into quesiton

lady.stark · ‎06-25-2014

@jerseywithstats wrote:
Once the buyer has been refunded there is nothing Ebay of Pay Pal will do. You are out of luck. Welcome to Ebay.

Not necessarily. If I remember correctly, the seller can appeal the claim.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-25-2014

@saigongeek wrote:
This buyer clearly looks for exploits in the eBay. They knew exactly what they were doing and knew how to manipulate the rules to get both the product and the money back.

Is there a place I can go to dispute this BS claim?

Also, what should I be doing when posting adds to protect myself against eBay and malicious buyers?

Actually, I think that the problem was in the way that you had responded to the claim. If you had clicked on return for refund and the buyer escalated, ebay would probably have required that they return the item before they received a refund. Or, you could have offered a partial refund if that is what the buyer wanted. Basically, you disputed the claim and ebay found in the buyer's favour because you did not send what was stated in the listing.

I don't agree that ebay does refund without a return but that seems to be the way they have been doing things if the claim is escalated when the seller is found at fault and hasn't offered to refund once the item was returned.

What can you do to prevent this when listing...Make sure that your information in the listing is correct. It is a good idea to put as much of the information as you can in the item specifics as that is more prominent than the description for mobile users.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-25-2014

@lady.stark wrote:
@jerseywithstats wrote:
Once the buyer has been refunded there is nothing Ebay of Pay Pal will do. You are out of luck. Welcome to Ebay.

Not necessarily. If I remember correctly, the seller can appeal the claim.

You're right, they can appeal but the buyer did not receive all of the items mentioned in the listing so it's unlikely that appealing would make a difference.

atxpoint1 · ‎06-25-2014

The problem in this case is that ebay's default item details boxes often contain hilariously wrong information, and the seller cannot edit that info before posting. So it's a choice of either A) leaving out the item details, which would make the listing look more amateurish, or B) leaving the item details as they are, keeping a reasonable expectation that the buyer would read the ENTIRE item details page. There are probably hundreds of thousands of listings which "contradict" the default item details. It's completely unreasonable to say that buyers would be eligible for full refunds in all of those cases.

For example, a lot of video game item details show the wrong game genre, for some inexplicable reason showing "3D Pinball" instead of the real genre like RPG, shooter, etc. If a buyer were to tell ebay that didn't get what they expected because the actual game isn't 3D Pinball, I would expect ebay to do the rational thing and slam the door on their face.

Secondly, as the original poster mentioned, there are scammers who will look for postings with any disputable points, just to get free stuff (and sell it to pawn shops for drug money). ebay shouldn't be intentionally braindead about that issue.

iankimmerly · ‎06-25-2014

I don't like using the Item Specifics for Books, so while I usually write my own, from time to time I will cut and paste the Item Specifics into my Description, then edit out the errors. I leave only the ISBN number and title in Item Specifics.

It makes no sense to look 'professional' if the 'professional' information is wrong. It does no good for either the buyer or the seller.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-26-2014

The problem in this case is that ebay's default item details boxes often contain hilariously wrong information, and the seller cannot edit that info before posting. So it's a choice of either A) leaving out the item details, which would make the listing look more amateurish, or B) leaving the item details as they are, keeping a reasonable expectation that the buyer would read the ENTIRE item details page. There are probably hundreds of thousands of listings which "contradict" the default item details. It's completely unreasonable to say that buyers would be eligible for full refunds in all of those cases.

I realize that there is a problem with some of the descriptions and it is ridiculous that things like that don't get fixed but we don't know if that is the situation here. Perhaps some versions of that item come with batteries etc. The OP did not notice that the ebay description was different so they probably didn't read all of the information. It is also very common for a buyer not to read everything in a description.

If leaving the catalogue description out makes a listing look amateurish then those of us who list in categories without catalogue descriptions must all have amateurish listings.

Secondly, as the original poster mentioned, there are scammers who will look for postings with any disputable points, just to get free stuff (and sell it to pawn shops for drug money). ebay shouldn't be intentionally braindead about that issue.

There is no proof that is the situation here. As I mentioned, if the seller had told the buyer to return for refund, the outcome may have been different.