eBay helped thieves steal from me!

[saigongeek]

I'm baffled at the outcome of this result.

So I listed an item which included the eBay general description in it. At the bottom of the eBay description, it stated what was included in the lot. ex. Batteries, Charger, Stand. ( I didn't notice this in the eBay description.) 

My description stated the item that was for sale and to look at the picture for a better idea of what the bidder would be getting.

(I now know to be more descriptive.) 

I chose the "No Returns" Option and listed the item.

A bidder used the Buy It Now option and purchased the item and immediately started demanding faster shipping. I shipped it to the buy and he asked where the charger, batteries and stand were. I said that the lot only included what was only was in the picture as stated in my description.  

The bidder escalated it to eBay, and eBay found the bidder in favor saying the confusion "Wasn't the bidder's fault." eBay refunded his money and the bidder got to keep the item.

Can someone explain to me how this is possible?

Not only am I out the money for the item, but now I lost the item as well.. If that doesn't sounds like thievery, I don't know what does.

Has anyone ever tried to demand a refund from a store without the return of the item?

[pjcdn2005]

I'm glad that it worked out better than you thought.

I have read quite a few posts about ebay using their own funds to refund and not require a return. Although the seller isn't affected in this particular transaction, I don't think that it sets a very good precedent. The more often that ebay does this, the more often a buyer will assume that they don't have to return the product in order to receive a refund and they will expect the sellers to follow suit.

[ricarmic]

PJ I suspect eBay tags the buyers and maybe the sellers in these situations, same as would happen if we did a "report a buyer" - I have to believe they have some mechanism to keep tabs on problem situations like this to make sure they aren't abused - ie they'll eventually identify and suspend buyers who repeatedly do this. eBay's goal is to make money and in situations like this they lose out from a financial (because they ate the cost of the item), support staff time (and therefore cost) etc perspective so they will want to minimize this, same as you or I would if we owned eBay.

[mr.elmwood]

---

@saigongeek wrote:

Ok. Hmm..

Thanks for all help Pierre. I really appreciate it.

So it seems I am wrong in this case and didn't understand the outcome. I apologize for that.

I have come away from this with a lesson learned though and will make sure to spend more time describing my lots listed and be sure to check the description prior to listing. 

---

THAT is a super positive attitude that will do you a lot of good.The willingness to stop, look, analyze, and then admit an error? Fabulous. If every seller carried that attitude into every sale eBay would be making trillions.

What you just said is the ultimate in seller protection: the realization that so much rests with the seller, for so many reasons.

Pat yerself on the back for the mea culpa and the understanding you gained.

[atxpoint1]

The buyer has escalated the case to eBay Customer Support.

Jun 24, 2014 at 12:06 PM

You have responded to the buyer.

Jun 19, 2014 at 11:32 PM

Your message to the buyer:

"Please show a full return is owed by the standards of eBay"

The buyer has responded to you.

Jun 19, 2014 at 10:19 PM

Buyer's message:

"A full refund according to the original policies outlined is the only acceptable resolution at this point. I am not willing to deviate from the policies outlined, those were the only terms I agreed upon when the purchase was made."

You have responded to the buyer.

Jun 19, 2014 at 7:22 AM

Your message to the buyer:

"Hi there, A "No Returns" policy states that there a no refunds. Have you ever bought something from a store and then later went back to the store and demanded a refund without the item in question to return? In your case, as there was confusion with the eBay listing, I will accept a return. Once the item is returned, I will issue a refund of the purchase price of the item. Thanks and have a great day!"

The buyer has responded to you.

Jun 19, 2014 at 12:07 AM

Buyer's message:

"In your policy it states you do not offer returns, instead I am guaranteed refund. I expect a full refund within 24hours."

You have responded to the buyer.

Jun 18, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Your message to the buyer:

"I understand. I apologize for the confusion. Please return the item in the same condition, time and speed as it was shipped to you. Once I have received the item and it is deemed to be in the same condition, a refund will be processed. Thank you, Justin "

The buyer has responded to you.

Jun 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Buyer's message:

"I Only purchased this item because as you can see you stated: "Detailed item info Description Two-way Radio, Basic, Color Black, 22 Channels, Frs/gmrs Band Type, 16 Range (miles), Height 2-1/2 In., Length 1 In., Width 2-1/2 In., Battery Type Aaa, Includes (2) Radios, Aaa Batteries, Ac Adaptor With Y Connector" I made sure in the description that the radios came with both batteries & adaptor or I would Never have purchased it, Please fully refund ASAP!"

You have responded to the buyer.

Jun 17, 2014 at 8:44 PM

Your message to the buyer:

"There is no chargeable batteries or charger. The lot is only for what you see in the picture. That's why it says "See picture for better idea of what you are getting.""

The buyer opened a case: Item doesn't match the description

Jun 17, 2014 at 8:04 PM

The case details: The buyer says the item doesn't match the description. The buyer paid on Jun 11, 2014. The item has missing parts or pieces

Additional information: "the item arrived but you forgot the rechargeable AAA batteries & charging adaptor! Please send ASAP & partial refund for the inconvenience!"

The buyer requested: A replacement item --- PJ, please read the conversation posted earlier. Judging from the buyer's attitude, would you not conclude that he was purposely gaming the system for his benefit? He sounds like a straight-up psychopath, responding to the seller's politeness with such hostility. By the buyer's last message, he sounds like nothing but a robot, programmed only to know the protocol to get stuff for free on ebay. I'm happy for the seller that it turned out he wasn't charged for it, but it still worries me that there are scammers like that circulating in the ebay bloodstream. One more thing about the Detailed Item Info boxes: below any links to youtube videos included in the box, there is always a disclaimer advising the buyer to read the item description thoroughly, and that the video may not respresent the actual item. If only that disclaimer were posted on ALL the boxes, not just the ones with youtube links, that would help. But in the end, it is still the buyer's responsibility to read the whole item description before agreeing to buy an item. If there seems to be any contradictory info, a reasonable buyer (ie., not a scammer) would either 1) Not buy the item, or 2) Contact the seller to ask a question. The scammer in the above case clearly was not naive. He knew ebay in depth. He didn't make an honest mistake. He knew what he was doing. (Sorry for assuming it was a guy, by the way!)

[pjcdn2005]

Since reading the messages, I admit that he does sound like a jerk and it is possible that he planned to make the claim when he purchased the item. It also does sound as if right from the beginning he was aware that it is possible to keep the item and get a refund. But unless the OP showed you the messages before they were posted, you were judging the buyer without the information in the messages.

Your guess about the buyer was better than mine but I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt as there are always two sides to the story. Without all of the information it is easy to make the wrong judgement. This thread is a good example of that in a few different ways.

But in the end, it is still the buyer's responsibility to read the whole item description before agreeing to buy an item.

Agreed. And it is the seller's responsibility to make sure the whole item description is accurate before listing the item.  Since the seller didn't notice the discrepancy when listing, it's possible that the buyer might not notice it until after the item arrived. I don't think that is the case in this situation but it is possible that could happen.

So....let's say that the buyer wrote the seller commenting on the missing items. The seller apologized and told the buyer to send it back for a refund. In that situation, I think that the seller should pay return shipping. Do you agree or do you think that it is the buyer's fault for not noticing the problem ahead of time so they should be out the money for return shipping?

[femmefan1946]

(and sell it to pawn shops for drug money)

That would be a very well organized junkie, eh?

[mr.elmwood]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

(and sell it to pawn shops for drug money)

That would be a very well organized junkie, eh?

---

Never saw that one. So, junkies have a computer, internet, Paypal. They buy, pay, receive, file a complaint, steal, take the widget to a pawn shop, get money, buy drugs. Repeat.

Hum? I must have been running with a lower class of junkie.

[malversant]

welcome to ebay the cluster**bleep** of thieves 

happened to me many times , the number of such cases escalated this year

[mrdutch1001]

ZOMBIE THREAD from 2014

[119arty733]

As a frequent eBay user I'd like to say the amount of product that does not arrive sucks. You give bad feedback and get harassed. I end up with the wrong products, products that are unwrapped or do not have the full casing it should* come with. That's not okay and should be in the write up. Then buyers could avoid bad transactions. Then there are the sellers like (blank) who use the buyers email to harass them online on FB etc. 
As sellers have secret groups posting about specific buyers, so do the buyers and it seems like a bunch of nut-bags harassing each other with fake accounts. 
Feels like it is over boiling from both sides, should be intersting

[119arty733]

Yes, I'm aware of the people in this discussion

[kh-leslie]

Hello Everyone,

Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies.  Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thanks for understanding!