eBay

eurohellas2004 · ‎01-13-2018

So I have been a member for a while now.. I usually use ebay as a buying platform but once in a while I sell cell phones which I buy..

Recently, I sold a phone to an individual gave him a little discount and he received the phone, verified etc.

Long story short, he opens a case against me, claiming " not as described or defective " so the seller (me) would be responsible for generating a shipping method for him and pay for it.

He uploads two photographs claiming to be screenshot of the phone showing a green image and a white image.. he stated the the camera on the phone freezes and don't play. Also said these were screenshots. Meanwhile anytime you take a screenshot on a android device you get the battery icon, time, network connection etc etc... all were missing just a black background with the green and white image.

I requested that he show me a video of the phone and the issue .. in the youtube video he says " phone works 100%, and the video and recording doesn't freeze... it only freeze once or twice when playing it on my computer "

Video evidence his showing the listing, the phone and everything.. His computer? a macbook running windows bootcamp which from experience i've had issues with anyway.

To my knowledge and surprise ebay tells me " we don't use video evidence because it can be tampered with " I was like so you mean a green square with a black background can't be?

I am extremely frustrated with this situation beyond belief. In my province we can record phone calls luckily and I have been. one rep " we don't use photos as evidence " other rep " we based our decisions on the photos the buyer provided "

I didn't believe some of the stories i kept reading online about ebay from sellers, but dam, now that I am in this situation it is the last time I use it. How can you not use video evidence provided by the buyer as proof that the device was working is beyond my mind ..

Since posting on my story on another forum some people have been in touch to get sellers together to expose this practice that ebay does. Sure everyone deserve protection but when evidence exist use it.

momcqueen · ‎01-13-2018

If I may boil this issue down to the facts:

This buyer bought something from you and wants now to return it. You cannot deny that to them, a Return is a return.

Your issue is with the return postage you are now obligated to provide the buyer due to out being claimed Significantly Not as Described (SNAD). You say it is exactly what you listed and sold, the buyer says it isn't in some way.

Remember you cannot deny the return. Essentially you are arguing with Customer Service about the nature of the return and, ultimately, who pays postage for its return. You or the buyer.

Ebay is already wise to buyers pretending an item is broken in order to force the seller to pay return postage. If you're meeting resistance with Customer Service over this, either your argument needs work, or your evidence is lacking.

Work on both and call back to ask for a supervisor.

I've had exactly one false SNAD and ebay customer service was immediately able to recognize it as such when I called about it. They gave me no difficulty in managing it.

I will add one more thing: make sure your messages with the buyer and evidence ALL goes through ebay. You cannot ask ebay Customer Service to look outside the site to find evidence related to a case. And try to call during a weekday where your chances of being connected with a rep in the States is greater.

Good luck.

eurohellas2004 · ‎01-13-2018

Of course a return is a return, that is why my first message to the buyer was to pay for the shipping since the phone was / is in working condition even according to him and I would inspect the phone and if defective return it.

But he opened a false claim and even some ebay staff told me this is a case of buyers remorse and they did nothing but allowed the claim to be falsely opened.

and yes, everything even the youtube links provided was done through ebay message system, yet they fail to do thorough investigation

reallynicestamps · ‎01-13-2018

You can get your phone back in working condition and have a clean selling account.

OR

You can make the already unhappy buyer angry, risk getting back a phone that is unsaleable("Well it was dirty, so I ran it through the dishwasher.") and have a lost dispute on your record and be out $370 plus shipping both ways.

How much is return shipping?

Is it really worth arguing?

Ooooh. You already left negative Response to the angry buyer's negative feedback. This is going to hurt more than the return shipping cost.

maximus7001 · ‎01-13-2018

Just accept the return and get your phone back. Most likely if you try fighting it ebay will just take the money from you, all of it and you also will loose the phone.

I am wondering how one "plays a phone" on a computer. Sounds like this bad buyer is a big idiot to begin with.

Anonymous · ‎01-13-2018

Actually the sellers are not obligated to provided the return shipping. I have a case that eBay requested the buyer to pay the return shipping. with a tracking number for a photo.

momcqueen · ‎01-13-2018

@Anonymous wrote:
Actually the sellers are not obligated to provided the return shipping. I have a case that eBay requested the buyer to pay the return shipping. with a tracking number for a photo.

As did I. But a straight-forward SNAD is seller-paid return postage, period. A SNAD determined by ebay to be false is handled differently although the workflow you're sent through remains the same until the case is escalated.

By the point in time that a false SNAD is escalated, the seller will have already had at least two contacts with Ebay Customer Service and permission to escalate the case. It's not the same as flat-out denying responsibility for a SNAD because, as a seller, you don't agree with it. All that happens if you put up roadblocks on a SNAD case as a seller (without advance permission from ebay to do so) is that the seller gets a defect for not resolving the case before ebay had to step in. That's a serious no-no.

eurohellas2004 · ‎01-13-2018

I was cautious of this purchase because after the buyer bought it was asking me to drop the price.. So I thought okay i'll help you out i'll give you a little discount on the shipping. So I ate the shipping cost.

Ebay is one messed up organization. I spoke to a manager / supervisor and she gave me a few option.. One was to allow the buyer to pay for it, send me a copy of the receipt and reimburse the shipping. So I thought great best option to get the exact amount and even provided my Canada Post business account so they can get a discount. I even recorded the call, and every call.. I call from my work line and all calls are recorded - one party recording requirement.

Their review system is so messed up.

the money from my paypal was transferred so I had to refund paypal, which I did, but this time with my Credit Card. If ebay tries to screw me over I will open a charge back with my credit card company where they actually LOOK at all proof, videos, pictures and full communication because my fight will be with ebay after.

I sent the buyer $15.00CAD yesterday to ship the product back.. As of now it is a waiting game.

The one thing I always do before I ship products, I get the teller at canada post to inspect the package and make sure it works, and they stamp a letter I have with their initials to verify it works. Yes I am paranoid because their are a lot of scammers online, thus I want to be covered in every way.

I had no issues with the return. I had issues with the false claim put forth. How can you say in a video the phone works 100%, the videos play with no issues on my phone, but on my macbook with bootcamp windows unverified drivers the video stutters 2 times in 10 minutes. How ebay can't video the video as proof is ridiculous.

So The product was and is working 100%, and all the labels were 100% prior to taping the package and verified. I'll even record a video from the time the post person knocks on my door till i open it to verify it.

eurohellas2004 · ‎01-13-2018

As I have never been through this before, what happens if i get the product and it works exactly as it was verified? Do I appeal the decisions?

By the way, this is one of the two pictures that were uploaded that ebay considered as proof.

Though I can't tell where they are coming from, what they are from, or what they are.

This is not a screenshot, but was claimed as one.

ebay told me a "supervisor" that they don't account pictures, but a manager told me they do.

momcqueen · ‎01-13-2018

You could call ebay and try to get them to accept the phone works as it was sold to work, and see if they might comp you some funds to cover the return postage cost. They cannot take money back from the buyer, but they might be able to give you a coupon for the amount you paid in return postage for use on ebay with something else.

Maybe ask tyler@ebay.com when he opens the Weekly Chat on Wednesday.

eurohellas2004 · ‎01-14-2018

At this point I'd rather eat the cost with the shipping get the device back and not have the headaches.

Unfortunately my feedback will probably remain so that is **bleep**py but what can you do.

It is just unfortunate that when even the buyer provides proof ebay just brushes it aside.

reallynicestamps · ‎01-14-2018

because after the buyer bought it was asking me to drop the price.

Oy.

That's where the scammer reveals himself. Lesson learned.

Andyou showed yourself to be a soft touch.

For future reference, the best response, in my opinion, would be "I'm sorry you have found the cost of shipping too high. I am willing to cancel the purchase and refund you in full."

You decide the cost of shipping in a secure and reasonably fast manner. And 'secure' means YOUR security.

The customer is covered by eBay Buyer Protection. He doesn't need more.

Do I appeal the decisions?

Eighteen cents a minute.

That's the current minimum wage here in BC.

Multiply the number of minutes you have spent on this by 18 cents. That's time (and money) you won't see again.

Do you want to put more time into it?

This has been a learning experience for you.

We all hate those.

But if you get your item back and it is still saleble, call it a win and move on.

Any one you walk away from, right? Long as we got the goods, I call this a win.- Jayne Cobb

fashionoutletdeal · ‎01-17-2018

you were really lucky

eurohellas2004 · ‎01-22-2018

It's funny that sellers have to follow rules to the T, yet ebay doesn't

Buyer return product, and it is being transferred to the post office item still shows Item in Transit and they refund the buyer already .. no signature, no delivery nothing.

maximus7001 · ‎02-14-2018

So what happened in the end? Did you get the phone back? Did the bad buyer break it on you?

westcoastart2 · ‎02-19-2018

I find its best to say NO RETURNS on the listing. I don't think it has any impact on sales to legitimate buyers. At the same time it discourages dishonest buyers.

The buyers I've to worry about, are those that buy from me, hoping to resell to someone else at a profit. If they are unable to resell to someone else at a profit, they return the item. There is no risk to them, as they get the shipping covered. If you accept returns, then you accept this behaviour.

When you say to Do Not Accept Returns, that means buyers can only make a claim if the item is not as described, or wasn't delivered.

If you accept returns, then no reason is needed. They can simply say their dog told them to return it - any reason is acceptable. They could even say they tried to sell it for a profit, and were unsuccessful, so they want to return it, for a full refund, and prepaid return shipping.

As for photo evidence. I've been scammed by buyers wanting a part refund back and using photoshopped photos to support their claim. If they want to keep the item, while claiming in photos it is damaged - you're probably being scammed. Its good that Ebay does not rely on photos.

The unfortunate thing is that Ebay will rely on whatever it can to support whatever it wants to do. What it wants to do, is keep the seller happy.

femmefan1946 · ‎02-20-2018

When you say to Do Not Accept Returns, that means buyers can only make a claim if the item is not as described, or wasn't delivered.

And if the buyer says the item is Not As Described, the seller can rant and rave and produce videos of packing it in front of a Justice of the Peace, but eBay will still tell him to pay for the return shipping.

EBay doesn't do 'hesaid/shesaid'.

In my opinion, No Returns is more likely to lead to a NAD dispute, since the buyer may think there is no point in contacting the obdurate seller to work out the problem.

It comes down to penny wise and pound foolish.

My time is money. I'm retired so I only use the local minimum wage to figure my time at 18 cents a minute.

Ten minutes work? $1,80.

Two hours work? I'm out $21.60 of my time.

I can ship a lot of stuff with tracking for $20 .