eBay

e.j.kim · ‎12-11-2018

This probably is quiet old information for many but this just happened to me today for the first time.

The purpose of sharing this information is because it's simply confirmed information with an ebay agent. There's no any doubt on this and it will help other sellers give some precaution for selling their items. Keep in mind that I'm sharing this information with permission from the agent.

No arguments are necessary here.

If a buyer claims that they didn't received the item but the seller can't prove tracking, then the buyer gets the money back.

- It's simply because there's no tracking in it. Also the letter-mail shipping receipt from Post office proves nothing.

However, the tracking can't guarantee in a situation like this,

The tracking shows that the buyer received the item but the buyer claims that the item is not as described and returned the item with the item that the seller was NOT originally sent.

- Then again, the buyer gets the money back. It's because ebay wasn't there when the seller was packing up and shipping the item.

If these 2 cases occur, the seller can't win. Even worse, if ebay refunds the money to buyer, the seller won't get the fee back either. The agent recommended me to use 30 day return but you won't get any help in those two cases.

It's pretty dire situation for the sellers. The only thing you can do is, you should report these buyers just in case other sellers get troubled with the same buyers. Reporting a buyer is pretty simple process.

Furthermore, ebay doesn't give any considerations for the sellers. If you have a good record of selling items and received thousands of positive feedback, that doesn't matter since ebay only examines case by case. The massive delivery delays caused by Canada Post Strike is not ebay's concern either even though ebay sent the messages to the Canadian sellers to encourage their items active for sale. I also pointed out the lies in the buyer's messages but they also didn't really care.

It's ebay's policy and if you are not satisfy with ebay. You should try other e-commerce service.

Yes. I'm phasing out. The whole conversation with this agent was a huge discouragement. He's attitude too. I've been selling my items just to clear out my collections but it consumes much more time than I bargained for.

I hope you get some ideas for selling items on ebay with my post. I must say the part I made my mistake was selling an item to a buyer who hasn't bought anything for years.

femmefan1946 · ‎12-11-2018

The rep you spoke with (a minimum wage clerk in Utah, probably) was conflating the different reasons for Disputes.

Item Not Received-- Unless you use a Delivery Confirmed (which is not quite the same as tracked) service you will not be able to prove to eBay (or Paypal's) satisfaction that the shipment was received-- or even sent.
Item Not As Described-- The customer bought a red sweater and you sent a blue one. Or the Used Phone you sent did not work at all. Or the gold earrings are plated not solid gold. The seller will be required refund the buyer. The seller can demand the return of the unwanted item, but must pay for return shipping.
Buyer Remorse-- which is a subset of Not As Described. The sweater was sold as blue but the buyer wanted royal blue not navy blue. Or the buyer decides she would rather pay her rent than keep the solid gold earrings. Or the phone was sold "as is , for parts" and the buyer told himself he could fix it but he can't. The seller can demand a return and the buyer must pay for the return.

Now, #3 is tricky, because few buyers will say "I changed my mind, take it back" . So while it exists, don't ever expect to have the buyer pay for return shipping. It can happen, but not often.

NOTE -- No Returns does not mean No Refunds. EBay may take you at your word and allow the buyer to keep the unwanted item and force you to refund anyway.

It is my opinion that a No Returns policy encourages unhappy buyers to move directly to a Dispute, rather than working on the real problem with the seller.

None of what you posted is any secret. It's clearly stated in several places.

. The massive delivery delays caused by Canada Post Strike is not ebay's concern

We have been told by tyler@ebay our eBayCanada rep who has an open discussion of problems most Wednesday's that there are protections in place for sellers as the labour dispute winds down.

He seems to be higher up the food chain than that Utah clerk if you have specific problems.

I've been selling by mail order since around 1978. I've also worked in retail.

Not every transaction will go perfectly.

I'd add my usual screed about Cookie Jar Insurance here, but I think I'll go to bed instead. It's 2 am and I'm a little sleepy.

tyler@ebay · ‎12-11-2018

Thanks for the kind words @femmefan1946, great way to start my day!

Hi @e.j.kim - I can confirm that the clarification that femme posted is accurate.

There are protections in place through the end of the year in regards to item not received requests as well as neutral/negative feedback, tracking uploaded and validated misses as well as late shipping marks. These protections should be applied to your account's selling performance weekly.

With regards to an item not received request - if escalated we will allow an additional 15 days for delivery. If tracking doesn't update after that time, or if no tracking was included on the shipment and the buyer says they still haven't received it, there is a good chance we will ask you to refund the buyer in full.

Reporting buyers you feel are abusing the system is the best course of action, and will be reviewed by our Trust and Safety teams. Thanks!

Tyler,

heartovermind · ‎12-12-2018

femmefan wrote:

"Unless you use a Delivery Confirmed (which is not quite the same as tracked) service you will not be able to prove to eBay (or Paypal's) satisfaction that the shipment was received-- or even sent."

Are you saying a **signature is required for proof if there is an INR claim?

I thought the "proof" from USPS Tracked Packet or CP Parcel Tracking showing "Delivered on... " is enough...

femmefan1946 · ‎12-13-2018

@heartovermind

I worked as a writer and editor before I retired, and words are important to me.

Delivery Confirmed service is all that eBay and Paypal require for Item Not Received disputes under $650 (including shipping). Only acceptance by the shipper and delivery to the recipient is necessarily recorded.

Tracking is different. Tracked mail is recorded at every stop on its journey from sender to recipient. Tracking includes Delivery Confirmation.

But most of us use 'tracking' when we mean 'Delivery Confirmation' because it is shorter, understandable and grammatically more flexible.

Signature Confirmation is necessary to win Not Received Disputes where the value is over $650 (including shipping).

Personally, I think Signature Confirmation, at $1.75 or so, is cheap insurance and sellers should not be nervous of using it on much less valuable shipments. In my opinion, it will give the honest buyer (most of them) a warm feeling of security, and the sketchey buyer a reminder that he is being watched.

And then there is Registered, which is only reliably tracked domestically. EBay and Paypal do not accept Registration as electronically valid proof of delivery.

ypdc_dennis · ‎12-13-2018

@femmefan1946 wrote:
... Signature Confirmation is necessary to win Not Received Disputes where the value is over $650 (including shipping).

PayPal signature required for INR protection starts at $750US or $850CA (depends on the currency used for the sale).

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#11

ebay.ca help files mostly say $750 (currency not specified)

https://ocsnext.ebay.ca/ocs/sc

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

...

However some ebay.ca help files still say $250

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/pay/shipping-tips.html

@happy_pigeonthis help page needs an update for signature value

-..-

diver_mike52 · ‎12-13-2018

I echo your sentiments, E.J. Kim, and appreciate the time and effort you put into your post. I, too, am thoroughly disgusted with Ebay and am so angry with them that I am disinclined to waste much time even explaining why. Except to point out that their absolute policy of making it very easy for a buyer to complain, and blindly accepting the buyer's claim that, for instance "item was not as described", without doing any investigating, has taken millions out of the pockets of sellers and into the offshore bank accounts of Ebay. So do you think they'll change?

Buyers have learned how to play the system. But more and more sellers are getting burned by Ebay-assisted-theft and are leaving. After 17 years I might join them.

femmefan1946 · ‎12-13-2018

without doing any investigating, has taken millions out of the pockets of sellers and into the offshore bank accounts of Ebay.

Yes refunds take money from sellers. At best the seller gets his item back before the refund is made.
That money goes to shipping services (like Canada Post) and to the buyer who made the original payment.

EBay does charge~10% FVF and those fees are not necessarily refunded when the seller loses the Dispute.

Are those the 'millions' you refer to?

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-13-2018

A signature is only required if the item plus shipping is over a specific amount. Otherwise, delivery confirmation is enough for a seller to win an inr. That is really the only guaranteed seller protection. I don't see it is an extra form of protection if the item is less than the required amount because I've heard of people signing for an item even when an item is delivered to the wrong address. Plus, its a pain for those that aren't home during mail deliveries as a signature required parcel may then require them to go to the outlet/post office to pick up the package.

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-13-2018

NOTE -- No Returns does not mean No Refunds. EBay may take you at your word and allow the buyer to keep the unwanted item and force you to refund anyway.

It is my opinion that a No Returns policy encourages unhappy buyers to move directly to a Dispute, rather than working on the real problem with the seller.

To clarify.....If a seller has a no returns policy and a return request is filed because the item is not as described, the seller still has the option of accepting a return and then refunding once they receive the item back. If they refuse the return then yes, its possible that they will end up refunding without a return.

I believe that someone else mentioned not getting their fees back...the seller does get their fees back UNLESS they or the buyer ask eBay to step in. If they settle it without getting eBay involved then the sellers fvf fees are refunded.

diver_mike52 · ‎12-13-2018

Yes, they keep FVFs. Over thousands of transactions.
Do you know that they encourage buyers to leave negative feedback so that they can increase the sellers FVF rate?
I've only been involved in one dispute in 17years. Has any seller ever won one?
In my case they forced me to send money for return postage and immediately refunded the buyer with no guarantee that he would actually send my item back. He refuses to provide a tracking number and Ebay refuses to ask him for one.
At least they provide this forum so I can rant! Thanks for the ear. // Mike

femmefan1946 · ‎12-13-2018

I won one this year where the customer complained that the stamps were hinged. Hinging does reduce the value of stamps, but the stamps had been described as hinged in both title and description.

He filed as a Not As Described and wanted a partial refund.
I wasn't born on a turnip truck.

I sent a USPS return shipping label (using Shippo) and the stamps were not returned. I won the case and eventually the cost of the label was refunded.

Like most sellers I have very few cases but this one was relatively recent and the first time I had used the Shippo service of making USPS labels available to Canadians.

happy_pigeon · ‎12-14-2018

However some ebay.ca help files still say $250

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/pay/shipping-tips.html

@happy_pigeonthis help page needs an update for signature value

Thank you