30 minutes wasted communicating, life moves on...

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

On my other account I'm selling a piece of heavy bulky electronic for a friend. Someone from eastern Canada asked me some questions on its functions. After I answered all questions in detail, he then showed me a link to a US seller that sells it brand new, and asked me for a almost 50% discount on my item (so that my item would be cheaper than the brand new from US).

I checked out that US listing, and it says it ships within US only. Anyhow, I could still get a quote with the shipping calculator and it quoted a Canada shipping that's $50 more than US domestic shipping price. The quote this "buyer" gave me was item + US domestic shipping. I messaged back saying that I got a quote that's $50 more than what he told me, and that I believe he misinterpreted the US domestic shipping as Canada international shipping. I also declined to sell with a 50% discount due to high cost to ship to eastern Canada.

He messaged back and said I was right about the shipping cost, thanked me for my excellent communication, and didn't say anything else.

Do you think this guy was trying to scam me into giving him a big discount by showing me that US listing, or he was truly too ignorant to realize that the listing he was reading only ships within US? I'd think a buyer with feedback score over 40 should know better than that... 

[hommesc]

Hard to know what the guy was really thinking, but I suspect he knew the other item was not available to him, otherwise he would have just bought it and not even bothered with your listing.  Sounds like he was trying to get you to lower your price, hoping you wouldn't notice the difference in shipping costs. 

Yeah, it was a waste of time, but unfortunately it's par for the course when selling something.  You get all kinds. 

[pierrelebel]

"Do you think this guy was trying to scam me into giving him a big discount..."

It is not a scam.  Simply a method of negotiation.

Most of us, while shopping, may see an item we like at a price we feel is a bit high.  Many will explain to the vendor that a competitor offers a similar item at a lower price. Some sellers will lower the price to get the sale, some will not.  Nothing to do with "scamming".

Personally, I do not negociate on my selling price posted on eBay.  When a potential buyer suggest the item is "cheaper" elsewhere, I politely suggest he buys it from my competitor and wish him good luck.  If he comes back for more negotiation, the name is added to the "blocked bidder list".  Being retired I can spend my time whichever way I want but refuse to waste it on cheap hagglers.

[Anonymous]

zee-c,  well done.  An excellent example of selfhelp.  You gained experience without being paniced. 

[i*m-still-here]

It might have been time wasted for you, but I learned that on ebay it almost always makes sense to negotiate price and it sounds like that is what  this shopper was trying to do.

The buyer may well be back once he considers a little longer.

For years I wouldn't make lowball Best Offers.  When I saw that sellers were accepting offers lower than what I had in mind I started to do the same.

Guess What?  Many eagerly accept those lowball offers.

I also noticed that a lot of sellers were ending items and then selling via BIN at prices I would have paid in a heartbeat.

When I saw that often enough I started negotiating as well.

It works.

A few sellers are insulted.

BUT.......... on the whole, much to my surprise, it works very well.

[nuvistors]

Would you go into a car dealer and pay the ticket price without negotiating ?   Purchasing anything expensive is just the same and  a responsible buyer will always try to  get the best buy for his money.

[almond_t]

A few sellers are insulted***

Sometimes it backfires on both buyer and seller.  A year or so ago there was an item listed, for quite a long time, for nearly $3000;  I truly wanted to purchase said item, but couldn't bring myself to spend that much on what was essentially an unnecessary luxury item.  But I looked at it every day.

I was willing to spend probably $22 - 2300 on this category / item, but did not wish to insult the seller with what I considered to be lowballing.  It was a personal creation of the seller, and someone whose work I had great respect for.   So I watched it...for months on end, but unwilling to insult the seller with  a best offer that devalued their work by 20 % or so.  

Turns out the seller probably would have welcomed my offer; they accepted an offer for about a quarter of their listing price,which was   about a third of the price I was willing to pay. I nearly cried!  In excess of $1500 was left on the table because I was too polite!

So, I truly don't know what to do when it comes to best offers.  At what point would the seller be insulted or  consider  it  a mutually-satisfactory offer?

So, not wanting to either insult the seller, OR pay more than I wish to, I pretty much leave best offers alone and move on if I don't 'love' the purchase price.  Which, in in effect, might make it a  LOSE-LOSE  situation.

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

Wasted time? Hradly. You are expanding yer searching, understanding, communicating skills.

I'm sitting in my Scooby-Doo jammies having peanut butter toast. I'm not wasting MY time.

[femmefan1946]

So, I truly don't know what to do when it comes to best offers.  At what point would the seller be insulted or  consider  it  a mutually-satisfactory offer?

A seller who does not add the Best Offer option is more likely to be insulted by any offer.

EBay does not want customers to make Best Offers when the option is not chosen.

And a very lowball offer (less than 50% of asking) would probably be insulting to most Best Offer sellers.

Sellers can add a limit that automatically rejects Offers below a certain amount.

[i*m-still-here]

femme, where you see that it is against ebay policy to approach sellers with offers?

Do you have the link?

I've found that most sellers welcome it and a few don't.  I think what you're saying is that you don't welcome offers.

I recently bought an item which the seller listed for $700 or Best Offer.

I offered $300 with free shipping and he accepted within the minute.

Had the seller not accepted I might have bought it for $700.

It was actually a $1,200 item which the seller most likely bought for $100 or less.

Most are not that extreme, but this is why I continue to do it.

On the Flip Side:

What is much more common is for a seller to list a $50 item for $1,000 or B.O.

They're fishing and don't know the value of the item and would probably jump at an offer for $100. 

These things are all over the board and with so many sellers there is no pattern to what sellers want and there are no "etiquette" rules in relation to best offers.

Some sellers get insulted at low offers and sorry........... but when that happens I can't help but be amused that anyone would take it personally.

It's not personal.  It's business!

[almond_t]

Thank you, femme, I was looking for concrete sellers' feedback on this issue.

I've never seen any 'Guidelines'  regarding  what sellers deem acceptable or non-acceptable.  And I mean bona-fide opinions from the sellers soliciting Best Offers.

The seller I was referencing is not only on my "favourites' list, but is a CTS board seller, as well. Doubly unfortunate that I 'erred on the side of caution' and wouldn't submit an offer that would have been mutually beneficial.  

Thanks again, femme! Any other comments would be welcome, as well.

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

Offering is an interesting scenario. There is a reasonable offer and then there are the flat-out lowballs. I do a "best offer" once in a while. The rest of my listings are BIN. On the BIN I get offers of 1/4 my list price plus they want free shipping. I simply reply "This is not a best offer listing". Those people then go on my BBL.

If you want something bad enough, make a REASONABLE offer. An offer that causes the seller to pause and go "Well, um, er, gimmee a minute".

Sure, some of my stuff I get for nothing, but, I have the only one available on eBay and it is very hard to come by. Do not lowball me.

When I run sales, I do 20% off, so, I have a 20% tolerance. No-one has ever offered anywhere near my tolerance.

[msmaggie060]

Femme is correct. You can not make an offer if the Make Offer button is not in the listing. Here is the ebay policy on best offers (sorry, I can never remember how to post a link so I just copied and pasted the policy):  

"If the Make Offer button doesn't appear in the listing, the seller isn't interested in receiving offers and you shouldn't try to contact this seller to negotiate price or terms. Doing so violates our offers to buy or sell outside of eBay policy."

[i*m-still-here]

I followed your link msmaggie, and found?  """We don't allow our members to use eBay to contact each other to make offers to buy or sell items """" outside of eBay.""""

Yes, that is correct.  

My mistake,  I thought she was saying that offers are not allowed for items listed on ebay when the offer is intended to be completed as an ebay sale.

To the best of my knowledge there is no rule against it.

[almond_t]

Inuk, I am only talking about 'reasonable' offers of course.  

Perhaps, 20 % discount would be considered the threshold.  Perhaps there's an unwritten rule that sellers list at a higher rate to provide room for negotiations.  I don't know.

What i do know, is that if there is an item I am searching for, I will find it, and be fully prepared to pay reasonable list price plus reasonable shipping.  Reasonable meaning, not 'unreasonable'.  I have never had reason to complain about shipping costs, as if I have agreed to purchase, I have also agreed to the respective shipping costs.  The items I would be looking at 'best offer' would be items that would be 'nice to have if the price was right' only, and therefore I would be up for negotiating with the seller.  It would be something that it's ok if I don't get it.    

Which leads to why I'm asking in the first place; looking at items  I don't need, unless the price was right!  And what is the protocol, from  the sellers' POV! 🙂

Buyer and seller need to be on the same page, or the transaction will not be .. mutually 'enhanced'.

[i*m-still-here]

I don't go around making low ball offers to sellers on a regular basis because I simply don't have the time.

However, I have seen buyers who do this.

I'm amazed at the items they amass at prices beyond belief.

After watching them for years and seeing it work, I do now occasionally make low BIN offers and I continue to be amazed at how often my offers get accepted.

I described one purchase above, and while that doesn't happen every day neither is it uncommon.

If that weren't the case I would never waste my time with it.

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Thank you for everyone's response 😃

It might have been time wasted for you, but I learned that on ebay it almost always makes sense to negotiate price and it sounds like that is what this shopper was trying to do.
The buyer may well be back once he considers a little longer.

I showed my friend the messages and she told me to just block this buyer as she didn't want me to risk getting NFB for not offering discount. With that 50% offer from that buyer, she'd end up with only about $15 after shipping and eBay/PP fees, which is totally not worth our time to sell. I can see that there is still 1 watcher on that item (which is likely the guy who messaged me), but well, the item isn't mine.

I do accept most reasonable offers. People who contact me via my website make very reasonable offers. I get more low-ball offers on eBay...

Would you go into a car dealer and pay the ticket price without negotiating ? Purchasing anything expensive is just the same and a responsible buyer will always try to get the best buy for his money.

Would you ask for a 50% discount on a car?

A seller who does not add the Best Offer option is more likely to be insulted by any offer.

Yeah. The item was listed as an auction + BIN. No best offer option.

Some sellers get insulted at low offers and sorry........... but when that happens I can't help but be amused that anyone would take it personally.

A while ago someone offered a 10% price on an item that costs me more to ship. I think I have the right to feel insulted by such offers. I did, however, responded with the original price minus 50 cents. The buyer never responded. =P

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Wasted time? Hradly. You are expanding yer searching, understanding, communicating skills.

I suppose you could put it that way, lol.

It is not a scam. Simply a method of negotiation.

Regarding "scam," I was referring to the fact that he quoted a sale price + US domestic shipping price, when the actual shipping to Canada is significantly higher by $50. Not sure if he was trying to scam me (at some point of our messages I've mentioned that I'm a student and not a commercial seller, hence I cannot offer low shipping rates) by showing me a listing with lower price, thinking that since I'm a "new" seller I may not know how to read the other seller's listing properly. Either that or he really thought that a US seller who wrote "will ship within US only" in their listing would ship something over 5kg for merely $15 to Canada.

If he truly wasn't aware that he misread the domestic US shipping as international Canada shipping, then yes, it's a method of negotiation. If he knew but still proceeded to talk me into giving a 50% discount, then it's a scam. And I'm inclined to believe that a buyer with 40+ feedback score should know how to distinguish shipping by now.

zee-c, well done. An excellent example of selfhelp. You gained experience without being paniced.

Thank you. 😃