Another SELLER with remorse REFUNDS US$21.55. PRICE expectation not met?

[lina-mallows]

Is there an epidemic of non-selling sellers out there?

The auction I won closed on June 23rd. for US$21.55.
An auction- for a pretty much similar item- sold for US$105.83 on June 17th.
I can see why the seller is concerned- but is this my problem- or theirs?

I just purchased this auction- a ONE day auction.
The seller is inclined to this type of auction- and requests payment with 48 hours. NO PROBLEM.

So- I bid, I won, and I paid immediately. The seller immediately REFUNDED my money (correctly through the PayPal mechanism.
With an accompanying note claiming that they had 'accidentally relisted' the item- and because there was one bid, they could not close the auction.

Now- we all here should know that canceling a bid (or more), and closing an auction is no big deal. Mistakes happen. eBay clearly provides the mechanisms to use in these circumstances.

Here's the kicker- no matter how much this seller blames eBay for the RELISTING ERROR- the TITLE, the NEW SUBTITLE, and a totally UNIQUE description DO NOT appear in any similar auctions from this seller closed within the past thirty days.

This seller has been around since 2005, and is certainly not new to selling on eBay.

So- I am to believe that the seller writes a NEW TITLE, adds a NEW SUBTITLE, changes the auction's description, and then CLAIMS !!! that this was an accidental relisting- I DON'T THINK SO !!!

[lina-mallows]

Apparently eBay agrees with me.


Here's what they wrote:
"We noticed that you recently filed a dispute for a purchase made on eBay, and we're sorry to hear about your experience. We value your participation in the eBay Community, and to show our appreciation we'd like to offer you the Courtesy Coupon below. To use it, select PayPal as the payment method, then enter your redemption code during checkout........"


WHILE I had heard rumour of US$25.oo being issued in GERMANY......
Wait- here's the kicker- this one was for US$100.oo !!!

"With this courtesy coupon, $ 100.00 of your next purchase is on us."

WOW !!!

[jakeeangel]

I'm sorry you had a crappy experience but I really dislike them sending coupons to buyers. If they genuinely have a bad experience, ok fine, but in my mind it only encourages lousy buyers to file disputes to get a coupon. That to me is wrong!

Are you sure it's $100? Read it again. I've read them being 10% of the listing cost UP TO $100.

And don't misunderstand it to mean eBay agrees with you. They don't care. All they want is buyers to not leave the site and are giving them coupons in the hopes they'll spend more money on here.

In reference to cancelling bids and auctions - you cannot do so when there is less than 12 hours left. A seller can cancel bids but they cannot end a listing. While highly unlikely, it may have been legit.

[lina-mallows]

jakeeangel- I agree with you. I very much dislike this coupon system. And yes, it is absolutely $100. One time use- and no residual carry over.

Had it simply been an apology- that's OK when it's sincere.
Had they sent a discount coupon for 10%- that would have been OK too- but where does it end?

You are absolutely correct that this is getting out of hand.
Sellers jump through hoops to save a few pennies in their end value fees, and eBay goes and hands out $100 bills like they're candy !!!
Something is very wrong here!

To be fair- eBay does add the following caveat to the coupon-
"Unfortunately we cannot offer you additional Courtesy Coupons for future disputes, but when you use PayPal all eligible transactions will be covered by the PayPal Buyer Protection Program. Click here to find out more."

So- you (eBay) will not reward FUTURE disputes- but you (eBay) are willing to kick out $100 NOW! Who can complain?

I am pretty certain that most eBay sellers also have alternative ID's.
And many buyers have multiple ID's.
I am not suggesting anything here, other than this does not bode well for honest eBay sellers.

[jakeeangel]

Interesting. I have a US account that I buy with. I have a US address, bank account, credit card etc and I've received several coupons - no I have not filed any disputes or anything, I just buy infrequently. And the ones I've received are for $5 off or 10% off up to $100. It's interesting that they send such coupons to US accounts & not Canadian ones unless there's a problem.

On this account I'd be the chick that gave me the neg for making up her own shipping costs & ignoring what I emailed her!!! grrr got a coupon.

Interesting wording though that they warn people they won't get more coupons for future disputes. I suppose that would discourage bad buyers from filing just for the sake of filing a dispute.

They're desperate for buyers, they really are. Griff was talking about how buyers are running away because of bad sellers (ya right!), getting undeserved negs from sellers, fake products etc. Well DO something about the crappy products maybe you know?? sheesh

He cryptically spoke of there being no eBay in a couple of years if they don't keep the buyers they have. What I saw & heard there reinforced my belief that they want all sellers to offer the same experience to buyers. They want buyers to feel safe & get good products & quality service from all sellers. When they get good from one, mediocre from another & outright lousy from another guy, they leave.

eBay can't come out and say you suck, please leave so they tighten the rules and let the chips fall where they may. I truly believe that. It was reinforced by what I heard from these folks in Chicago.

[lina-mallows]

jakeeangel- Just to be clear, as I failed to mention it- this incident was related to a US REGISTERED eBay account.
Though- clearly the e-mail address the coupon was sent to is a DOT CA domain.

[jakeeangel]

hmmmm.....very interesting! I wonder why they do it for US accounts only? All coupons I've ever received were on my US account. ?:| Strange.

[westernstargifts]

They're desperate for buyers, they really are. Griff was talking about how buyers are running away because of bad sellers (ya right!), getting undeserved negs from sellers, fake products etc. Well DO something about the crappy products maybe you know?? sheesh

Every time my hubbie mentions to someone that I sell on eBay, (which he does constantly), I almost always hear the same comment....that eBay is full of scammers and they are afraid to buy on eBay. My daughter is the moderator for a parents online group in this area. One of the members posted a comment for the other 800 plus members to beware of buying on eBay because she bought a trailer and was scammed out of $5,000.

That was less than a month ago. When I went to see the Bookkeeper who did my income tax, he told me of no less than 3 people that he knew who had a bad experience with buying. One was his son who lost $2,000.

It is not surprising that eBay is having difficulty keeping buyers and finding new ones.

[jakeeangel]

Unfortunately those folks got taken by people who weren't actually on eBay but used the eBay name to scam them. And I've found that those types mostly, not always, don't take responsibility for their part in the scam.

They thought they could get something for nothing, they fell for something that was too good to be true, sent cash, sent Western Union or Money Gram etc to a total stranger.

Nobody ever has a bad transaction from the back of the newspaper and warns against the Toronto Star but they do with eBay. You might want to aks them why that is.

Coming back from Chicago I encountered a woman who said something similar. She doesn't trust eBay or PayPal because of all the junk email she gets and warnings that they'll close her account if she doesn't etc etc etc when she doesn't have one. I asked her if she felt that way about the Bank of America or the FBI or the IRS because scammers send out fake emails on their behalf too.

She hadn't thought of it that way and when she did realized how foolish it was to blame eBay or PayPal for something they had no part of.

[bare_bright]

WoW is right $100 to go spending, sure turned out to be a good auction for you!

I agree that the coupon is not a good idea on the other hand what else can they do?

Also it is Possible that the seller was being true, I would of sent you a email first and talk to you about the situation b4 just sending a fast refund, I bet that's what
sparked you getting mad, the seller could of also just picked up the phone and called you to explain the situation, that's if your number was with your info


Have a Nice Day:)

[lina-mallows]

rockyeb220- I have been around long enough to understand that there are things that 'ing true', and other things that 'fall flat'.

The seller's placed explanation about not being able to REMOVE/CLOSE the auction, after a bid was placed, may well be true.

However, and of the seller's explanation about 'accidentally' relisting the item doesn't hold water.
The TITLE, SUB-title, and description were distinctly different from any other auction that the seller has placed on eBay. This was certainly not a case of accidentally missing an item in a BULK relist. The seller had not listed anything for a week- and proceeded to LIST only three individual items- TWO similar- and the one I bid on. The seller is inclined toward ONE DAY auctions, and immediate payment within 48 hours.
So- they certainly were not unaware of the immediacy they themselves created.
The fact that the item I purchased sold for about ONE FIFTH the value of a similar item sold a week earlier, was likely the single biggest influence on the seller attempted to withdraw from their obligations.

In the past month- I have had THREE sellers attempt TO NOT SELL items that were placed on eBay, and purchased, and PAID for!
Two were auctions, the other a BUY IT NOW for US$600.oo.
SELLERS set their opening bids- are permitted reserves, and other mechanisms to insure payment.

FOR SELLERS THAT ACCEPT PAYPAL (soon to be EVERYONE) The fact that a seller accepts the money without any action on their part- I simply pay with PayPal, that leaves the seller little recourse than to refund with an explanation. And it is the explanation that is often most damning.
HARD COPIES are easy to forward to eBay, and thankfully eBay does respond favourably.

I sent a REGISTERED LETTER (COST: OVER $13) to a US seller, who I thought was playing games. I can PROVE that I sent the payment- and guess what- the seller REFUSED to accept the REGISTERED LETTER- and directed that it be returned!
The seller filed a NON-PAYING BIDDER alert, and eBay issued a STRIKE against us!
I appealed- with PROOF of PAYMENT- and YES, an online explanation at USPS.COM explained that the recipient REFUSED ACCEPTANCE of the REGISTERED letter went a LONG way. eBay REMOVED the strike!
How the seller thought they could get away with NOT ACCEPTING a REGISTERED letter- and claim their end value fees, to relist the item is beyond me. THIS is a 10,000+ STAR eBay seller! I think they simply got greedy realizing that I paid about 1/8 of what similar items had sold for.
THEY set the terms- I met them! And this WAS not a PAYPAL related transaction- so it really is FOUR sellers in the past month we have taken issue with!

[lina-mallows]

...things that 'RING true'- sorry.

[lina-mallows]

In purchasing about 100 items a month on eBay; the non-selling seller thing is getting out of hand.

While in the past, issues with sellers did occur, at maybe once every few months- and yes, at that time nasty NEGATIVE feedback was easy to exchange.

However- FOUR sellers not wanting to meet their obligations with a thirty day period- unheard of. (Our buying pattern pretty much has remained the same over the years.)

MATURE long time eBay SELLERS definitely appear to be either a) TOTALLY SPOOKED by the NEW changes so as to be unaware of everything they are doing, or B) So not caring about any consequence of their actions, that they will risk NEGATIVE FEEDBACK and eBay's wrath, so that they can sell an item at a higher price- AFTER the auction closes.

[jakeeangel]

You would be surprised at what people don't know about eBay. I met some guy at the gala dinner in Chicago who was a Top Seller. I believe that means they make a lot of money on eBay. They were invited to some special dinner earlier at eBay Live for such Top Sellers.

Now, a Top Seller only counts dollar amounts I'm sure. I know it doesn't look at how much they know or don't know. This genius said he had a trick when dealing with bad sellers. Register with fake info, buy from them and neg them. 😐 I kid you not.

I make this 'are you mental???' face and laugh at him. LOL I explain to him that he can get NARU'd for doing this when the seller reports him for false contact info. He says No! the seller doesn't get the info. He gets the look again. LOL I re-explain. Then he says register with real info and then change it just before you buy from a bad seller. This guy was about as smart as a pile of rocks.

He just didn't get it. I didn't mention to him that by playing his game that he could get ALL of his ID's including his Top Seller one NARU'd when eBay connects his little game playing.

There are bad buyers but there are an awful lot of bad sellers out there too. Many of them don't have a clue and think what they do is right when it's so far from right it's scary. I met a lot of what I call bad sellers at eBay Live. One guy was PO'd that a buyer had the nerve to neg him 6 times. Why? Because the yutz shipped 6 vinyl records in three sleeves!!! Vinyl on vinyl and he did not get that the things would get scracthed. I told him I'd be PO'd at him if I was a buyer too. He called me a name I can't repeat. LOL

Another genius thought he'd come up with the perfect business model to make a lot of money. Get this!! He buys People and similar magazines, cuts out the pictures, scans them and prints 8 x 10's and sells them. 😮 Umm...HELLO!! can you say copyright infringments? Yeesh! He thought it was perfectly legit because he bought the magazine and it was his to do with as he pleased. Umm...NO!!!

It was frightening and these were the yahoos that were yelling about the changes the loudest. It was an eye opener alright.

[lina-mallows]

jakeeangel- I am only amused, as a whole lot of sellers who post here are guilty of some equally stupid things.

They may know who they are- or they may not recognize themselves.

Here's some of the things I can report from first hand experience-
Everything from simply dropping items in an envelope- no additional protection, just the item wrapped in a PayPal invoice- nothing more.
And they somehow believe that the items will magically arrive in PRISTINE CONDITION!
ABSOLUTE WORST- Two 8" Royal Doulton bowls- with a piece of paper in between, sent in a bubble pack. THAT'S ALL- Two bowls, a pice of paper, and a bubble pack- nothing else!
(POWER SELLER IN THE UK)

Accepting PayPal in all their listings- yet thinking they can get buyer to NOT USE their credit cards when making payments, which is contrary to eBay rules. Even when trough their own CC Service Provider- the fees are not that significantly different. So what's the issue here?

Inquiries about items currently, and previously listed, met with clear offers to move the sale off eBay, and thus not be held accountable their actions if they fail to deliver.
I bought ONE auction two days ago (ten items)- and the seller offered me EIGHTEEN MORE items when accepting my PayPal payment. No consideration was made for not having to list them- or pay end value fees- just a straight forward- "I have more at the same price, if you want them"!

Lying to customers about the whereabouts of their shipments- 'just make up something if it makes the customer happy!' I did enjoy reading this one. I suppose if you are good at geography, you can make a customer believe anything. (we bought a LARGE LAMINATED map of the US at WAL-MART- cost less than a buck. Great investment- really gives you an idea of what's between you and your buyer in the US) .......So let's try this. TO CUSTOMER- Your package was mailed from Toronto three days ago, and arrived in Michigan two days ago, being forwarded to the Post Office in Topeka Kansas sometime yesterday. We would hope that this item makes it to Austin shortly. Though we, like anyone else has no control over the Post Office, and/or the weather.

And what's funnier is, that some of these POWER SELLERS come here, on the PS discussion board, and brag about some of these activities !!!

So, when I say I am only amused, it is clearly with respect to some of the stupidity I see posted here!

P.S. I left similar NEG FB feedback regarding FIVE MEDALS sent in ONE holder
"SLOPPY- in folder & in bubble pack- 5 medals crammed into ONE plastic envelope!" And this was from a MAJOR coin dealer (2500+STAR) in Ottawa!
P.P.S. I just received 100 Plastic cards yesterday. Again the cards were simply dropped into a bubble pack, and mailed. When they left they may have been in pristine condition. However, upon arrival, let's just say that their present condition leaves something to be desired.