Anyone else get screwed by PayPal??

[hottee0]

I recently had 2 cases that I had filed with PayPal, under the 'Buyers Protection Program'. In both cases I was the buyer and the seller was found at fault. Also, in both cases I was notified by PayPal that they were unable to recover any of my losses from the sellers. I am a moderate seller on ebay. I have had claims filed against me on several ocasions. Each and everytime that a claim is filed against me. PayPal has always instantly frozen the funds related to that particular transaction from my PayPal account. This appears to be the company policy from all of my experiences. I have also noted that whenever PayPal does freeze the funds for any ebay auction. If you check the payment status of that particular auction. The auction will show as being paid, and the moment that PayPal freezes those funds. The auction will then show as being unpaid. Which to me would indicate that the funds are in limbo until fault is found. This happened to the two auctions that I am referring to. They went from showing 'Paid' to 'Send Invoice' which leads me to believe that PayPal now has control of those monies. Fine, no problem! But when someone is found to be at fault, PayPal seems to keep this money for themselves and send a convenient notice to the plaintiff that no funds were recovered. I sent an email to them yesterday, indicating that if my $206 USD was not returned to me. That I am going to close my PayPal account in protest to their misleading 'Buyer Protection Policy' which is found in most auctions. Not to mention that they charge a fortune for very modest services rendered without any compensation in a dispute. If anything similar has happened to you, I would love to here about it. And, I would also advise to write a letter of complaint to PayPal online payments services regarding such. You can email me direct if you wish at gramma_dynamite_2004@hotmail.com

[shoplineca]

Have you filed under the eBay part of this program. It is for fraud and is an insurance type of program. They will withhold part of the proceeds but you may be able to get the majority of your money through them rather than PayPal.

Here is the link to information. You are covered up to $200 per item and would have a $25 duduction for each transaction: http://pages.ebay.ca/help/confidence/problems-fraud.html

Malcolm

[rd1000]

You can yell at Paypal all you want. They don't care. They deal with this stuff every day.

They do fail to mention that buyer protection is contingent upon them getting the money back from the seller.

I opted out of the "buyer protection program" and had the links removed from my auctions. I don't want my customers having a false sense of security thinking they are protected by Paypal.

They are protected by me, which is far better than Paypal.

Malcolm,

I tried the ebay insurance. If was very difficult. I gave up after a month of canned emails and responses. Maybe others have had better luck.

Rob

[shoplineca]

Rob
I think that most Power Sellers realize that all the safety nets and programs marketed by eBay and PayPal are nothing more than window dressings.

Someday they will get their Macadamias in a ringer by some of the bigger US Power Selers, probably in another class action law suit, and perform another clean up of the surface dust.

Malcolm

[rd1000]

HI Malcolm,

Yes Powersellers certainly are aware. Largely due to these boards.

I guess it is good for sellers if buyers feel protected puchasing on ebay, even it it doesn't really work. Not really fair for the buyers though. I would love to see just how much Ebay pays out in insurance claims in a year. I will bet it is very close to zero.

AS for Paypal, I believe it is just a matter of time before they are forced to change their ways. The $150000 fine they just got did nothing. That was probably about 5 minutes of profits.

Rob

[shoplineca]

I have read the statistics on eBay manposer and it is a real joke. They actually brag that they have 6 full time people monitoring for fraud. How the hell can 6 people monitor upwards of 20 million transactions per day?

They dont even pay attention when Power Sellers report fraud until it has been reported by several Power sellers over and over.

What is funny is that when a negative article is written about eBay we all attack the writer of the article and then we turn around with our eBay problems and wonder why they are being looked into and fixed.

Again, from a corporate profit point of view, I cant argue with what eBay is doing. Providing the minimum amount of labour in running the business and maximizing profits while not loosing sellers and getting more buyers than what you are loosing. Pay the minimum in insurance proceeds but advertise the heck out of having an insurance program. Make it small enough such that no one person or company would ever sue you as it would not be worthwhile.

Malcolm

[marcopoloca]

Yes, i just got screwed by paypal.
ebay item - ebay item 4942641509
Seller deliberately false advertised an item saying it's a bulova watch but in fact it's a calibri; he knows the process well and will only offer me a refund if i send it back to him by courier with a tracking #. (he spent $2.16 postage sending it to me). Furthermore i already paid $40 to clear custom (Custom put an arbitary value of $150 on it and charge me excise, pst, gst and handling fee)
I filed a claim with paypal, but the seller respond with the above ultimatum, i can either accept his only offer or click cancel the case.
what to do?

[shoplineca]

marcopoloca
If delivered by UPS you can provide them with copy of eBay transaction showing actual amount paid. Otherwise you can file for a refund in the same manner with GST directly however as part of your duty was brokerage fees, you should direct your claim thru the carrier first. They will give you the brokerage charges and tax back that was overcharged based on the insured value assessed at customs.

I have done this 3 times so far where the Seller overvalues the item for insurance purposes. They dont understand that we get hit on that value the brokerage fees and taxes.

You might suggest to the Seller that you are considering filing fraud charges his state authorities if you dont receive a full refund and further that he pays the return shipping UP FRONT.

It is very clear that he advertised the watch as a genuine Bulova and that is completely false and misleading.

Also if you paid through PayPal and used a c/c, you can go through your c/c company for the refund if PayPal jerks you around.

I would file fraud notice with eBay as well under their Trust and Safety section. There is an area there that provides insurance proveeds up to $200 less $25 handling fee but it gets the Seller a BIG mark against him and possible suspension.

Malcolm

[mereco]

I agree that PayPal does not seem to care about its customers.
Yes I have been screwed by PayPal and made to appear as a bad seller as a result. I no longer trust messages I receive from PayPal to "confirm" that a buyer has paid and that the purchased item can be sent. On two separate occasions, one still in progress. I received PayPal's customary notification of payment. Trying to maintain a good reputation as a seller I ship immediately I have been assured payment has been made.
After shipping the purchased item to the buyer I receive a message from PayPal to say that the payment was made by fraud and that the payment amount is "frozen" and if it can not be resolved through investigation the payment would be considered as being voided.
The interesting part of this is that PayPal never made any contact with the buyers who PayPal is accusing of committing a fraudulent act. (PayPal's words not mine) I was the one that contacted the buyer in the first case and was able to resolve the problem. PayPal did nothing except "freeze" the payment and deduct it from my account.
As a seller I no longer trust PayPal and I know at least two buyers out there who will never use PayPal again and who are now reluctant to use eBay.
PayPal is not the only online payment service although it apparently thinks it is.

[marcopoloca]

what other online payment service methods are proven to be worthwhile? (and available in canada)

[ospreylinks]

It will be interesting to see if anyone responds to marcopoloca's post (#9) and if it doesn't get pulled given the Paypal Ebay relationship.

Will Ebay allow the community to post information that could create competition for them?

Jeff

[shoplineca]

Jeff
On the US Board, there were a number of threads about different auction sites in direct competition with eBay and those threads nor any of the posts pulled.

Same thing with auction management tools and so many people knocking the eBay tools in favour of competitor products.

I know as well that we often talk about alternative methods for being paid, whether it is an online method, direct merchant accounts, Western Union's Bid Pay or other possible alternatives.

I think that eBay feels pretty secure knowing that over 90% of eBay transactions are paid through PayPal and their relationship allows Paypal to be plastered all over eBay and on member's listings etc. where the competition is not able to receive the same accomodation.

I also dont think that the rules for this discussion board do not prohibit discussions about competitive products or services to eBay's. I believe that such a position is anti-competition and they might be subect to investigation and fines.

I would also think that it serves eBay to learn first hand what its members were thinking by openly discussing competition within an eBay sponsored forum otherwise they would have no idea about the possible direction its members may be contemplating.

As an example, wouldnt you love to have an ear to discussions that take place amongst golfers at your course if and when they engage in talk about other courses?

To be able to learn first hand what your members may think is a plus somewhere else to allow you the opportunity to implement a change that may appease them to keep them at your course.

Personally, I am more frightened by what I dont know than what I know.

Malcolm

[finells]

Hello,

I will give you an easy way of protecting yourself when using paypal. Always use credit card!!! I had a seller fraud me and paypal went through the song and dance of telling me that eventhough the seller was at fault they could not recover any funds from the sellers account.

Then I contacted my creidt card supplier and told them that XYZ transaction was fraudulent and that I would like an investigation.

They obviously contacted paypal to get information. Shortly after a representative from paypal contacted me and asked why I had contacted my credit card. I promptly said becuase you guys are a bunch of idiots and hung up.

Shortly after I received my money back from my credit card supplier. The moral of the story is credit card companies do not dick around when it comes to getting your money back. I have done it once more after that occassion and had no problems.

PAYPAL employees are bound by their stupid rules. Credit card copanies are not.

[thebidwatcher]

Dang. I thought this thread was more literal than this. I was wondering if anyone ever did get, you know...

[muminlaw]

Keep it clean biddy! ]:) Yeah ... I know 😉

Glenda

[rd1000]

finells...don't ever receive money into that paypal account. THey will freeze it faster that you can say "chargeback". And you will not get your money until you have paid them in full plus a $10.00 fee.

Make sure all you ever do with that account is purchase.

Rob

[marcopoloca]

Absolutely, use your credit card for paypal payment; better yet, avoid paypal all together if possible.
i'll definitely use my c.c. for my next purchase.

i contaced paypal twice by email regarding my problem above and received two auto-response email. So i called them up by phone and after waiting for 10 minutes for someone to pick up a phone, i was told pretty much the same thing "that paypal's policy is i have to pay for the shipping back with a tracking #", even though it was very evident that the seller advertised the item fraudulently. Too bad or so what if i have to spend another 15 bucks to send it back, is their attitude.

[marcopoloca]

Received an email from Paypal today that they closed my case arbitrary because i did not response, but they did not provide any mean to respond! Either i ship the item back at my own expense or cancel the case.
I just filed a fraud alert with ebay, the pages just goes round and round but never provided any actual claim form; finally i go to my ebay and file under safety and trust, at the end it says the other party might choose not to respond and that was it! (unless i pay another $20 for Square trade to intervene)
what a freaking joke! Where can i leave negative feedback for paypal and ebay?

[shooger]

This thread was very depressing to read.

[mahsauction]

I never buy things from my Paypal balance. I clear out my balance before I buy something and then make sure to switch it from Echeck to credit card.
Terry