03-01-2014 09:14 AM
Link to
http://rt.com/business/bitkoin-bankruptcy-japan-exchange-179/
Big Loss
Bankruptcy... and
What next??
The banking community is shutting down everything to do with Bitcoin
RIP... except for all of those who invested and lost.....
03-01-2014 09:31 AM
03-01-2014 09:34 AM
"as the exchange's computer system was exposed to fraudulent transactions and technical failures."
--That they caused by theirself
I think MtGox have run away with all inverstor money($63.2 million) and maybe have exchanged this money to another virtual currency as "webmoney" or "Perfectmoney" and are spending it while filling the bankruptcy .
As this type of exchange don't leave any proof and money cannot be retraced.
I never had confidence in BitCoin currency or any other virtual currency.
Regards,
Eric
03-01-2014 02:00 PM
I don't know whether the end of one exchange will mean the end of Bitcoin, but my opinion is that the sooner it disappears, the better.
The disingenuous cries of "freedom currency" don't hide the fact that Bitcoin is a major criminal's dream, a godsend in fact. No need to deal with those demanding professional money launderers anymore.
The other dangers I see in bitcoin are: (1) if it becomes pervasive enough, it will begin to undermine, or at the very least negatively affect, legitimate currencies; and (2) that it is inherently volatile, elusive, and beyond control or regulation, for which reasons it could be damaging to whole sectors of the economy.
These are the same problems that surrounded such great ideas as sub-prime mortgages. Bitcoin is really just another ephemeral non-entity "commodity" being traded by people who, for the moment, believe it has value, or (more accurately) are pretending it has real-world value.
The people who dreamt up Bitcoin are relying on the ignorance of the average person and/or the fear of millions who believe that no government regulation is the best regulation.
No, I don't think it will be the exchanges that kill Bitcoin, since others will pop up to take their place. Only legislators can (and should) effectively intervene. At the moment it's a free-for-all, and people should do some serious homework before falling into the trap of belief in Bitcoin or any other virtual "universal" currency. It's a fool's paradise.
03-01-2014 11:34 PM
Bitcoin can be viewed as trading a highly variable stock with questionable value.. Somewhat like the trading of mining stocks on the old Vancouver Stock Exchange (VSE).
Mining stock traded on every little bit of information one could find... and much of the information was fabricated or had no basis in truth
If the mining venture did well... the stock became legitimate... Atleast the end product, the found mineral, reinforced the value of the stock.
If the mining venture ended without a true mineral find... the stock lost value lost value quicker than a barrel going over Niagara Falls.
Many of the stocks trading on the VSE were supported by fraud, and misinformation..... something that was standard for the VSE.
The credibility of the VSE, or more specifically mining stock was always in question.
The credibility of Bitcoin must be questioned from the very first moment someone established the very first Bitcoin....
Bitcoin has no supporting monetary value..... because it is an artificial value and not a true real value based on true monetary value.... or even something the equivalent of a mineral find with mining stock
and if the banks say no... then Bitcoin has no standing as a true monetary unit with true value based on anything more than hocus-pocus....
03-02-2014 12:31 PM - edited 03-02-2014 12:32 PM
@cumos55 wrote:
and if the banks say no... then Bitcoin has no standing as a true monetary unit with true value based on anything more than hocus-pocus....
You are exactly right, and your analogy of VSE mining stocks are germane too.
Money (or any other traded stock) only has value ultimately if there is something of value behind it. That something doesn't have to be gold (in the case of, for example, US currency), but can be the world's trust in the underlying economy which it represents.
Credibility and integrity have everything to do with trust in the foundation upon which a currency rests. When you lose that -- or if you don't have it in the first place -- the currency is effectively worthless. This is precisely why our Canadian dollar was so high during the US economic meltdown -- international traders saw stability and a reliable foundation in our economy and banking system that wasn't the case with most Western countries.
The only reason Bitcoin has any value at the moment is because people still believe it can be traded back into a legitimate currency. Once that becomes difficult or impossible to do easily, the smoke and mirrors will drop away, and, as the saying goes, everyone will see that the Emperor has no clothes.
As I said earlier, my main concerns with Bitcoin are that it's a criminal's haven, but even more important, that too many foolish people will be seduced into buying into it, which will ultimately have a significant and deleterious effect on the world's major economies. The US can't afford to have billions of dollars of its currency tied up in Bitcoin -- it's exactly analogous to the billions that were tied up in junk bonds, hedge funds and sub-prime mortgages. Some criminals may profit initially, but it's an idea with "Disaster" written all over it in the end.
03-02-2014 12:43 PM
The US dollar has not been backed by gold since 1934.
"The Congress has specified that Federal Reserve Banks must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Federal Reserve Bank puts in to circulation. This collateral is chiefly held in the form of U.S. Treasury, federal agency, and government-sponsored enterprise securities."
Basically, the dollar is backed by the ability of the federal government to sell debt, that is then covered by the printing of money. At the end of the day? It is backed by a promise of "We are good for it". Pretty much the same as Bitcoins.
03-02-2014 12:54 PM
@mr.elmwood wrote:[...] Pretty much the same as Bitcoins.
Well, no, not really. It's true that the US dollar has a much more ephemeral foundation than it once had, but even all the gold in Fort Knox a century or more ago didn't stop periods of inflation or devaluation of the US dollar from occurring.
The only thing that can proof the US dollar from collapse is the US economy, i.e. the world's belief in the United States' ability to continue to be viable economically, which in turn is a reflection of the input of the millions of citizens behind it, in one way or another.
Bitcoin has no foundation in the real world, just in fantasy. The only input behind Bitcoin are the few thousand criminals who have found a comfortable home. Would you place your reliance on that kind of stock?
03-02-2014 01:07 PM
In case we need any more convincing that criminals are at the top of this fancy pyramid scheme:
"Karpeles’ is the second high-profile resignation from the Bitcoin Foundation. In January, 24-year-old bitcoin millionaire Charlie Shrem, CEO of BitInstant, was arrested for using bitcoin for trafficking narcotics on the Silk Road website."
(Karpeles being the "kid" who was CEO at the time Mt. Gox disappeared off the radar.)
03-02-2014 01:31 PM
The only thing that can proof the US dollar from collapse is the US economy, i.e. the world's belief in the United States' ability to continue to be viable economically, which in turn is a reflection of the input of the millions of citizens behind it, in one way or another.
That is the basic premise and I agree with it. Interesting, is that in excess of one half of all US currency is held outside of the US. It is used as the currency du jour in a lot of countries where it is not "backed" by anything. The American government knows that they are only on the hook for less than half of their money.
03-02-2014 04:48 PM
@mr.elmwood wrote:Interesting, is that in excess of one half of all US currency is held outside of the US. It is used as the currency du jour in a lot of countries where it is not "backed" by anything. The American government knows that they are only on the hook for less than half of their money.
Actually, all that ex-pat currency is indeed backed by the reputation and power of America, which is all that's required to keep the value of the greenback almost universal. Having it in a lot of individuals' hands outside the US is a good thing for US trust and reflects well on what the world thinks of the US economy. It's the reason that in many countries ordinary street merchants will take US dollars - they know it will hold its value for the foreseeable future, whereas the currency of a politically and economically shaky nation may not be worth the paper it's printed on tomorrow.
It boils down to either lack of confidence or solid confidence in a country's future. If you're living in a struggling economy or unstable dictatorship, which currency would you hang onto? A universally trusted and universally exchangeable currency like the US dollar, or your own nation's currency? If you're living in, let's say, Syria, and needed to get out, your cache of US dollars from 50 years ago would be just as good today as it was then. It's the same reason Roman currency was used all over the empire and is still dug up in places like Britain or Turkey, etc.
We in Canada are pretty high on the "confidence" scale too, as are (usually) Australia, New Zealand, the Scandinavian countries, Japan, France, Germany, and to a lesser extent perhaps Great Britain. What do they all have in common? Stability and a reliably good future, both economically and politically.
The currency floating around outside the US can really only potentially cause a serious problem for the US economy if it were to be sold off en masse by a large holder or group of holders, which might create a sudden worldwide glut and attendant deflation of the US dollar everywhere.
Worse than that though might be the impression such a sudden sell-off would create that there is a reliability problem with US currency or by extension the US economy itself. This is probably the United States' big worry about China at the moment, and no doubt the reason the US is keeping its criticism and complaints about such things as human rights and Chinese commercial subsidies at a low decibel level.
At any rate, all of this is just to say that Bitcoin stands for nothing, represents nothing of value, and has such volatility that it will never be a stable and trustworthy replacement for legitimate currency. Criminals are simply using it because it's very convenient for their purposes. For ordinary people, well, you might as well invest your hard-earned, trusted, Canadian dollars in Syrian currency (or maybe Venezuelan?).
03-03-2014 02:34 PM
I wish people would stop saying "print more money". I really doubt that there are printing presses running off more dollar bills on any given day than are already in circulation .
What is really happening is interest rates and lending criteria are loosened or tightened as the central bank feels the need.
The world runs on credit and on trust. Pieces of paper - or of bronze, or aluminum, or silver or gold- are just a palpable symbol of that trust.
The pub here in Ottawa that has a bitcoin ATM reports that about 100 people a day use it to buy. And the average transaction is $20 CDN.
I'm not sure what they get in return to tuck into their wallet. For the smart ones it's probably beer. For the rest, I wonder if the receipt is printed on that kind of paper where the print disappears within two months, like the ones I get from Timmies?
03-03-2014 03:03 PM
Far from dead. Despite the very bad news its still trading for ~6X was it was last summer. Over 2m people hold some and 10s of thousands of business are now accepting it up to the size of overstock