eBay

ricarmic · ‎04-03-2014

For new buyers I send a "first timer" message that is longer than subsequent ones. As a result of lower "communication" ratings, I've been trying to improve it.

Here are my latest two trial versions, I am not sure which is better. Any and all suggestions welcomed!

Version 1:

THX for your purchase and speedy payment! Your stamps will go out ZZZZZZZ day. I have already left you positive feedback. If now, or after you have received your stamps, there are any aspects of this transaction that are not five star, please send me an email message to let me know, so I can work with you to resolve it! Have a great day!

Or

Version 2:

THX for your purchase and speedy payment! Your stamps will go out ZZZZZZZ day. If now, or after you have received your stamps, there are any aspects of this transaction that you are unhappy with, please send me an email message to let me know, so I can work with you to resolve it! Have a great day!

======================================

For reference the original version below I think was confusing buyers as I often got odd responses back from international buyers, I'm wondering how it got translated...

THX for your purchase and speedy payment! Your stamps will go out ZZZZZZZ day. Because I stand behind what I sell, and I would like you to purchase from me again, if there are aspects of this transaction that you are unhappy with, please send me an email message to let me know so I can work with you to resolve it! Have a great day!

rose-dee · ‎04-05-2014

Here's your "repeat customer" message, in all 3 languages. For the sake of easy reference, I'll copy your English original here too:

Thank you for your latest purchase and quick payment. I very much appreciate your repeat business. I will send your parcel Monday April 7. Regards, RICARMIC (Ron)

Спасибо за последней покупки и быстрой оплаты. Я очень ценю вашу повторных сделок. Я вышлем посылку в понедельник, 7 апреля. С уважением, RICARMIC (Рон)

Nous vous remercions de votre dernier achat et le paiement rapide. J'apprécie beaucoup vos affaires de répétition. Je vais envoyer votre colis Lundi 7 Avril. Cordialement, RICARMIC (Ron)

Vielen Dank für Ihren letzten Kauf und schnelle Zahlung. Ich schätze Ihr Wiederholungsgeschäft. Ich schicke Ihr Paket Montag 7. April. Grüße, RICARMIC (Ron)

OK, here we have some problems. The first sentence is fine in all 3 languages, as is the last. However, the phrase "appreciate your repeat business" is an English colloquialism that seems to have confounded the Google translator a bit. It's one of those phrases that defies literal translation. I actually chuckled when I read the French. The Germans love compound words that combine several thoughts into one concept, but this one is a bit weird in the context. I'm not sure the Russian is workable either. Heaven only knows how that phrase will translate into Chinese.

So, what you have to ask yourself is, what am I really trying to say if I had to say it to someone with a very limited English vocabulary and almost no understanding of English grammar. Why not simply say (2nd sentence): "We are pleased you decided to purchase from us again". (I'm using "we" because the electronic translator had to choose in French who was thanking whom, and the generic "we" was safer than assuming "I"). Let's try that, as part of the whole text:

Vielen Dank für Ihren letzten Kauf und schnelle Zahlung. Wir freuen uns, Sie beschlossen, wieder von uns zu kaufen. Ich schicke Ihr Paket Montag 7. April. Grüße, RICARMIC (Ron)

Спасибо за последней покупки и быстрой оплаты. Мы рады, вы решили приобрести у нас снова. Я вышлем посылку в понедельник, 7 апреля. С уважением, RICARMIC (Рон)

Nous vous remercions de votre dernier achat et le paiement rapide. Nous sommes heureux que vous avez décidé d'acheter à nouveau chez nous. Je vais envoyer votre colis Lundi 7 Avril. Cordialement, RICARMIC (Ron)

Much better! Now it sounds polite and completely comprehensible, even if not elegantly phrased, in all 3 languages, and will probably cut it in Chinese too. I would suggest you say "We will send your parcel..." rather than 'I will send your parcel" in the last line, or else say 'I am pleased you decided..." in the second line, just so that the two sentences are both in the same person grammatically.

Otherwise, I think this will do the trick! (P.S. I'll bet the Moderators will be having fun trying to review this post )

View solution in original post

rose-dee · ‎04-03-2014

Hi 'ricarmic' - I'll put on my linguist's hat to respond to this one, and say that online (machine) translation is almost always confusing at the other end. Even though I'm fluent in French and German, I tried a couple of "sample" translations on two different automated services, and honestly I would have had trouble comprehending the messages if I hadn't known what the original was. You get the gist (if you're lucky), but the details are really hit-and-miss, or are so wacky that they render the rest of the message unclear.

This is mainly because computer translation programmes lack two key elements: judgment and social context. Back when I was a university student, and computers were newfangled creations, there was a huge buzz and excitement about the possibilities of computer translation and/or live interpretation. We were all concerned our careers would be obsolete before we even started. In reality, that never happened. No serious event or meeting uses machine translation or interpretation even now. It's been relegated to the everyday amusement of the masses, for what it's worth.

OK, now all that is out of the way, if you want to craft a message that will be translated by a machine, you need to avoid anything that is even vaguely colloquial or metaphorical, because it will likely be translated literally and will be meaningless (at best) or confusing at worst. Short sentences -- article, adjective, noun, adverb, verb -- with as few prepositions as possible are best. English is rife with verb phrases like "go out", "stand behind", "move up"; or "I will be doing, going, etc." that machine translators can often take far too literally, and these are best avoided. Also steer clear of any contractions, abbreviations (like "THX"), jargon, or very modern usage. For example, most machine translation programmes will recognize and properly translate the word "email" as long as it's not used as a verb (as in "I'll email you"), but may make a real mess trying to translate a word like "feedback".

Here is what I'd do. I'd prepare an English version to send to obviously English-speaking countries, and another, differently drafted version that you expect will be translated. Here's what I'd suggest -- I'm using your second example as the basis for this universal, more easily machine-understood version (my notes in italics):

"Thank you for your purchase and quick payment. I will send your parcel on _____________, 2013 [state an actual date, in full, not a day of the week]. I hope you will find everything satisfactory. If you are not completely pleased with this transaction, please contact me via email. [I'd use "via" rather than "by" email, as it's less likely to confuse the translation programme]. I will do my very best to resolve any problem you may have. Regards, [I'd avoid "Have a great day", as that phrase doesn't always translate well, or translates into something that may seem brusque and discourteous in some cultures].

I think the above will avoid most of the common pitfalls of machine translation into most languages.

All that being said, I have to admit I've begun avoiding sending any direct email messages (through eBay Messages). I always add a little note in the Paypal labelling screen (there's a box for a message to the buyer), and I recently discovered I could put a note in the box on my transaction details page that the buyer would see -- if they look at their purchased items list. Those messages don't get picked up as "communication" by the DSR system, so result in an automatic 5-star rating. It's unfortunate -- I used to like communicating with buyers freely, but you never quite know anymore what will result from that effort.

I hope some of this may be of help. Cheers! (P.S. also avoid the exclamation marks -- they work in English and German, but look weird and even rather rude in some languages).

rose-dee · ‎04-03-2014

By the way, your communications DSRs look perfect to me! 5.0 out of 5.0 doesn't get any better. I do understand the need to approach new buyers with a more carefully crafted message though.

ricarmic · ‎04-03-2014

Hi Rose! THX so much for the suggestions! While my communication you see is 5.0, the problem is I have an ever increasing number of 3s, which isn't a problem so far in the new defect rate, but is very frustrating given the extra effort I put in, so I'm trying to pro-act on that account.

Regarding the date of shipment, my normal format is "I will send your parcel on Monday April 1" - I do include the day and date - I have learned not to say 1st or 2nd or anything beside the numbers themselves as the translator really struggles with that, particularly in Chinese....

Regarding the communication automagic 5, because I don't ship within 1 day, I don't qualify for that anyway (I ship within 2 business days) at this point and I figured that it is worth the effort to send something special - I send a different email the first time vs subsequent purchases, the subsequent messages are different and thank them for the repeat business....I do get a lot of good responses back from North Americans, it tends to be the international folks that are confused by the current wording and that is also where the highest "3" scores are coming from....having said that though you also have some good suggestions there too that I will consider as well!

I am going to have a tough time giving up exclamation marks but I will do my best!!!!!! 🙂

rose-dee · ‎04-04-2014

Hi again -- well I hope my suggestions will be of some help. Sometimes it's very hard to know what a computer translator will do with a perfectly clear English sentence, but I think the key thing is to keep the text simple, each idea or thought in a separate sentence, and use language that is as concrete as possible. In other words, stilted, schoolbook English.

You might be happy to know that the German language absolutely adores exclamation marks -- they use them everywhere, even in rather formal language where you wouldn't expect it in English.

Oh yes, and if you'd like to send me your final draft message (the one intended for translation), I'll run it through Google translator into French and also German, and will let you know if it comes out sounding like gobbledygook or if it's fairly intelligible, at least in those two languages. If it is, then it will probably fly in most others. Kind of like running a wool sweater through a washer and dryer -- you can never quite be certain what the end result will be until you try it.

ricarmic · ‎04-04-2014

Hi Rose! Perhaps hidden in my genetic past amongst all the Scottish genes is some German too! Here is my new updated versions, I actually included both, I tried to reflect your suggestions in my "repeat buyer" message as well. While I can translate to and back again using the online translators, it doesn't really tell me what someone like you who can read the foreign language directly can whilst it is in the foreign language! THX so much for your help! (PS it is very darned hard to keep the ! out, perhaps there is more German in my background than I know!!!) Feel free to make any additional suggestions when you do the translates again!!!

Thank you for your purchase and quick payment. I will send your parcel Monday April 7. I hope you will find everything satisfactory. If you are not completely pleased with this transaction, please contact me via email. I will do my very best to resolve any problem you may have. Regards, RICARMIC (Ron)

Thank you for your latest purchase and quick payment. I very much appreciate your repeat business. I will send your parcel Monday April 7. Regards, RICARMIC (Ron)

ricarmic · ‎04-04-2014

PS To anyone else reading this, if any of these or the final wordings work for you too, please feel free to adopt whatever you like for your own use too!

rose-dee · ‎04-05-2014

Hi Ron -- I just tried this on Google translate, and the result was really quite clear and almost completely grammatical. Here's what your message will say in French -- it will be easily understood, despite the minor flaws:

Merci de votre achat et le paiement rapide. Je vais envoyer votre colis Lundi 7 Avril. J'espère que vous trouverez tout satisfaisante. Si vous n'êtes pas entièrement satisfait de cette transaction, s'il vous plaît contactez-moi par e-mail. Je vais faire de mon mieux pour résoudre tout problème que vous pourriez avoir. Cordialement, RICARMIC (Ron)

And in German, well, we have one little bit of gobbledygook, but overall a German-speaking person will get the message quite clearly through the minor gaffes, especially the helpful and friendly tone, which is important:

Vielen Dank für Ihren Kauf und schnelle Zahlung. Ich schicke Ihr Paket Montag 7. April. Ich hoffe, dass Sie alles, was zufrieden. Wenn Sie nicht vollständig zufrieden mit dieser Transaktion sind, bitte kontaktieren Sie mich per E-Mail. Ich werde mein Bestes tun, um jedes Problem zu lösen, die Sie haben können. Grüße, RICARMIC (Ron)

I'll try your "repeat customer" text for you too in a few minutes.

Sorry I can't help you with Chinese, and my Russian is rusty, but maybe someone who can read Mandarin and Cantonese can try the same Google translator procedure and let you know.

rose-dee · ‎04-05-2014

OK, I thought I'd give the Russian a try anyway, and it's pretty good too:

"Спасибо за покупку и быстрой оплаты. Я вышлем посылку в понедельник, 7 апреля. Я надеюсь, что вы найдете все удовлетворительное. Если вы не совсем довольны этой сделки, пожалуйста, свяжитесь со мной по электронной почте. Я сделаю все от меня зависящее, чтобы решить любую проблему вы можете иметь. С уважением, RICARMIC (Рон)"

Keeping the text clear and unmistakable, and the sentences short really does help. The meaning comes through quite plainly even if there are grammatical or spelling glitches. My Russian is 25 years old, so aside from recent blah-blah-blahs from Putin on TV, and the occasional movie with a Russian-speaking character in it, I don't get to use it much. Interesting -- either Google translator didn't do its job properly, or apparently the Russians haven't caught up with the rest of the world in just referring to email as email (well, neither has the French language, for that matter). They call it contacting one 'by electronic post' (po elektronishkoy pochte). I notice though that Google didn't try to transliterate "RICARMIC" into Cyrillic characters. I guess that means that in languages like Chinese, your eBay ID will stand out as English text (as it probably should).

rose-dee · ‎04-05-2014