eBay

jt-libra · ‎11-09-2016

I noticed this statement on PayPal this morning:

"Starting Dec 1, 2016, Canada Post will start charging PayPal Shipping customers for any underpaid postage. Be sure to fill out your shipping labels accurately to avoid shipping disruptions that can result from owing underpaid postage."

I don't understand this statement.

Has Canada Post, up until now, not looked at shipping labels on parcels they have processed? Are they now going to examine each and every label? How do they intend to monitor this?

(Late night watching the election results, so maybe my brain isn't working that well this morning )

tobyshitzu · ‎11-14-2016

There is a minimum density they charge for so you can't put a feather in a huge box and mail it for the 1kg rate. All shippers do that.

The calculation is LXWXH in cm divided by 6000. If that is higher then the actual weight, then that is used as the weight to charge for

No one has to know that, you put in the actual weight and dimension and that gets figured out for you

i.am.vivian · ‎11-14-2016

And I meant it to be "soul" not "sole". I wasn't suggesting anyone here is a heel. LOL!!

jt-libra · ‎11-14-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:

Can some kind sole here explain to me in 'real people' English what is meant by "volumetric" vs. "gravimetric"? It sounds like a lot of sneaky gobbledyspeak to me, no real substance just a workaround way to say that a parcel weighs more than it does.

How can jt-libra's parcel, which weighs 460 when laid down on a reliable scale, turn into 652 all of a sudden? I don't buy that at all.

One of the regular posters (I can't remember who) did provide a "layman's" explanation a while back. Maybe he/she will see this thread and be so kind as to enlighten us.

i.am.vivian · ‎11-14-2016

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
There is a minimum density they charge for so you can't put a feather in a huge box and mail it for the 1kg rate. All shippers do that.

The calculation is LXWXH in cm divided by 6000. If that is higher then the actual weight, then that is used as the weight to charge for

No one has to know that, you put in the actual weight and dimension and that gets figured out for you

Thanks.

So like I said, if anyone here can explain to me in 'real people' English what is meant by "volumetric" vs. "gravimetric", I would be pleased to hear it, because it sounds like a lot of sneaky gobbledyspeak to me designed to say a parcel weighs more than it actually does.

i.am.vivian · ‎11-14-2016

@jt-libra wrote:
One of the regular posters (I can't remember who) did provide a "layman's" explanation a while back. Maybe he/she will see this thread and be so kind as to enlighten us.

Sure hope so! 🙂

ypdc_dennis · ‎11-14-2016

@jt-libra wrote:
To no one in particular but whoever might be able to provide an answer to this.

I just purchased a PayPal label.

Winnipeg to Fort McMurray
Dimensions: 15x15x15 cm
Weight: 460 g
Cost $12.56

The label prints out 15x15x15 - Weight 0.652 kg

PayPal should be printing the actual weight or the volumetric weight -- whichever is higher. Since that's what the cost is based on.

For an expedited parcel the volumetric/dimensional weight should be: 15x15x15 / 6000 = 0.563 kg

If Xpresspost: 15x15x15 / 5000 = 0.675 kg

So I'd like to know how PayPal is doing with their calculations since this printed result is wrong.

Perhaps converting cm to inches to get volumetric pounds then converting back to metric ?

www.canadapost.ca/common/tools/pg/manual/PGabcmail-e.asp

-..-

jt-libra · ‎11-14-2016

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
There is a minimum density they charge for so you can't put a feather in a huge box and mail it for the 1kg rate. All shippers do that.

The calculation is LXWXH in cm divided by 6000. If that is higher then the actual weight, then that is used as the weight to charge for

No one has to know that, you put in the actual weight and dimension and that gets figured out for you

That's good to know, thanks.

However, I'm still concerned about the extra charges I got for the two labels purchased through Canada Post. My scale might be out by a few grams, but not 200.

I'm going to watch my labels very closely from now on. This evidently has happened for quite some time but I only noticed this past year ..... actually since PayPal no longer provided a blank label option for us.

jt-libra · ‎11-14-2016

@ypdc_dennis wrote:

PayPal should be printing the actual weight or the volumetric weight -- whichever is higher. Since that's what the cost is based on.

For an expedited parcel the volumetric/dimensional weight should be: 15x15x15 / 6000 = 0.563 kg
If Xpresspost: 15x15x15 / 5000 = 0.675 kg

So I'd like to know how PayPal is doing with their calculations since this printed result is wrong.
Perhaps converting cm to inches to get volumetric pounds then converting back to metric ?

www.canadapost.ca/common/tools/pg/manual/PGabcmail-e.asp

-..-

Thanks for the link.

3.4	Shipping charges and weight

ypdc_dennis · ‎11-14-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:

... what is meant by "volumetric" vs. "gravimetric", I would be pleased to hear it, because it sounds like a lot of sneaky gobbledyspeak to me designed to say a parcel weighs more than it actually does.

Gravimetric = weight as determined by gravity (what most scales do) *

Heavy parcels cost more than light parcels to ship.

Volumetric = dimensional value = Length times Width times Thickness divided by an adjustment factor

Large parcels cost more than small parcels to ship.

-..-

When going by air, weight is a very small factor in the cost, what really matters is the number of packages you can cram into the plane's cargo hold. Which is why volume adjustments have become popular with shipping companies.

-..-

Canada Post divides by 6000 for Regular parcel and Expedited parcel (which mostly go by ground). All other CP parcel services are divided by 5000 (and thus have a higher adjustment factor). Anyone with a measuring tape and a calculator can figure out what the volumetric adjustment factor is for their parcel.

-..-

(*) Science Warning:

gravity weight vs mass (at earth's surface, they are close enough for shipping purposes)

-..-

pjcdn2005 · ‎11-14-2016

Did your question(s) get answered?

i.am.vivian · ‎11-14-2016

Thank you for the great answer.

I 'get' most of that, at least I think I do. Gravity is the earth's pull and what things weigh means how heavy they are according to it. Volume is how big around something is. What I don't get is how a reliable home scale is alleged to be mistaken by so much. If there is some formula that Canada Post is applying to determine costs, Weren't they always using it? And if this formula is needed to determine cost, shouldn't the CP site (ie, PayPal labels) have this already programmed in?

By that I mean so that once the seller enters the measurements and the weight, then chooses the service, depending on the service chosen the site automatically adjusts so that the seller sees the same fee both times, not a lower fee first but then more when the label is printed. (I don't think that's very well worded, sorry).

To ask ordinary busy people to work out the appropriate percentage of the adjusted volumetric divided by the concomitant proportional aggregate of the gravimetric and then say "We're watching you so don't get it wrong" sound suspiciously like a CP thumb on the scale to me.

Maybe I'm just not getting it. 🙂

pjcdn2005 · ‎11-14-2016

I don't know what happened in jt's situation with the CP label as I'm not sure what she meant by being charged after the fact......just after she printed....was billed by CP later on or ....?? Did she enter weight and dimrnsiond ?

Anyway, I do know that with PayPal you enter weight and dimensions and the system will figure out if dimensional weight comes into play so the only price you will pay is what you see before you print the label. You may enter 1kg as the weight but if dimensional weight is 1.54 that is what you will be quoted and what you will pay for and that is what the the label will say on it once it is printed.

I think that when they are talking about charging people who haven't paid enough they are referring to the wrong weight and or dimensions being entered. In some cases fudging by a cm or 2 can make a difference, especially if the higher amount brings the parcel into a different service. For example, instead of entering 20x20x3 I may enter the depth as a 2 so that I am charged for light packet instead of small packet. Or change the weight from 515 gr on s small packet to 490 grams so that I pay less. I don't know exactly what type of packages they will be checking or at what point they will be checking but if we are entering the correct info, it shouldn't matter.

i.am.vivian · ‎11-14-2016

I agree with all that. I am probably fretting about nothing but hearing about this right after the announcement that CP is cracking down on everyone. Like another poster mentioned, they don't say how they plan to reimburse all those overpayments. The assumption being that sellers are all cheating the system by lowering a few cms or grams off and then printing a label for less than what it really should cost. I am sure that happens, human nature being what it is. I am equally sure that an honest mistake can happen in either direction. I just wouldn't like to think that none of my very carefully done weights and measures are going to be considered "right" any more and that CP is fiddling with some "formula" that makes the usual tape-measure-and-scale numbers basically meaningless.

jt-libra · ‎11-14-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
I don't know what happened in jt's situation with the CP label as I'm not sure what she meant by being charged after the fact......just after she printed....was billed by CP later on or ....?? Did she enter weight and dimrnsiond ?

These were non-eBay labels I purchased on the Canada Post website and charged to my credit card. They were around $12 each. In each case, about 3 or 4 days later, I found that they had charged an additional $2.25 - $2.50 to my credit card. If I had tried to underestimate by 25 or 50 grams, I would have thought .... okay I got caught. But I entered accurate measurements and weight and noticed an additional 200+ grams on the label. I didn't call CP the first time but did the second time and received some information regarding volumetric measure.

Today, however, was the first time I noticed it on a label printed on PayPal and I wouldn't have thought too much about it except for the fact that I had seen the announcement about Canada Post cracking down on insufficient postage.

But, what will be will be! It's always something! I've begun to prioritize my concerns and worries. There seem to be so many these days that this will fall somewhere in the middle of the list

pjcdn2005 · ‎11-14-2016

That is really odd. Since you entered measurements you would think that the calculator on their site would take the dimensional rate into account right away. As you saw on the PayPal label they do take it into account so I would be surprised if we were charged after the fact for that. But I guess time will tell.

Anonymous · ‎11-14-2016

Not going to happen as Canada Post is so greedy and they have been gouging us for years, so why start now.

momcqueen · ‎11-15-2016

Okay, I have two examples. Domestic Expedited Parcels to BC.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actual dimensions and weight

What the label read

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actual dimensions and weight

What the label read

momcqueen · ‎11-15-2016

I think it odd the measures show millimetres on the paypal receipt. I don't recall us being allowed to enter 12.5 cm into any field when buying postage. Does everyone (like me) remeasure their boxes once the boxes are taped shut? Sometimes if they have been glued sloppily at the factory what is supposed to be a 22-cm length will sit as 23 cm on my desk. Could that be a problem for Canada Post? Do you use metric jt?

momcqueen · ‎11-15-2016

Also, Paypal claims Expedited labels purchased are Regular Parcel every time. I've no idea the reason for this.

jt-libra · ‎11-15-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:
I think it odd the measures show millimetres on the paypal receipt. I don't recall us being allowed to enter 12.5 cm into any field when buying postage. Does everyone (like me) remeasure their boxes once the boxes are taped shut? Sometimes if they have been glued sloppily at the factory what is supposed to be a 22-cm length will sit as 23 cm on my desk. Could that be a problem for Canada Post? Do you use metric jt?

Thanks mj. I do use metric ..... and I always measure and weigh my parcel after it is sealed. I'd like to think that Canada Post does not have the resources to determine if there is a 1 cm overage or a 15 g overage, but maybe their new technology will catch that. My postal outlet just takes my parcels and puts them in the back. They never re-weigh them. They will scan the expedited ones though. So I have no idea what happens at the sorting center.