Canada Post will start charging PayPal Shipping customers for any underpaid postage.

[jt-libra]

I noticed this statement on PayPal this morning:

"Starting Dec 1, 2016, Canada Post will start charging PayPal Shipping customers for any underpaid postage. Be sure to fill out your shipping labels accurately to avoid shipping disruptions that can result from owing underpaid postage."

I don't understand this statement.

Has Canada Post, up until now, not looked at shipping labels on parcels they have processed?  Are they now going to examine each and every label?  How do they intend to monitor this?

(Late night watching the election results, so maybe my brain isn't working that well this morning )

[ricarmic]

I can think of two situations where this can apply:

I've seen posters saying that they just put their packages in the mailbox, so those won't be looked at by anybody till it hits the plant. Some enterprising souls I'm sure have been understating the size etc to put less postage on the package in the hopes it doesn't get caught.

As I've mentioned before, if one asks 10 postmasters the same question one can expect to get 11 different answers sometimes. A good example is what counts as 20mm. I myself have had postmasters that as long as they can pull it through pulling with both hands it is aok, others want it only to brush and not be resistant. If a pull it through kinda postmaster lets something through that gets tagged en-route as supposedly being a package that too can cause postage due.....

It must be bad enough to prompt canada post to put procedures in place to recover the postage due.... interesting that they've got resources to do that but darned if they can't find a way to track stuff more economically..... 😉

[ypdc_dennis]

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@jt-libra wrote:

I noticed this statement on PayPal this morning:

"Starting Dec 1, 2016, Canada Post will start charging PayPal Shipping customers for any underpaid postage. Be sure to fill out your shipping labels accurately to avoid shipping disruptions that can result from owing underpaid postage."

Has Canada Post, up until now, not looked at shipping labels on parcels they have processed?  Are they now going to examine each and every label?  How do they intend to monitor this?

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Canada Post already does this for labels bought through their website. I suspect this is a case of getting the computer resources in place to charge underpaid postage back to the seller who actually bought it through paypal.

-..-

[i.am.vivian]

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ricarmic wrote: 

I've seen posters saying that they just put their packages in the mailbox, so those won't be looked at by anybody till it hits the plant. Some enterprising souls I'm sure have been understating the size etc to put less postage on the package in the hopes it doesn't get caught.

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Then there are those who just put a P stamp on everything that is really too heavy for that rate.  I know they do it, but they are taking an awful chance if it gets sent back postage due and an impatient buyer doesn't have their item. 

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@ricarmic wrote:

As I've mentioned before, if one asks 10 postmasters the same question one can expect to get 11 different answers sometimes. A good example is what counts as 20mm. I myself have had postmasters that as long as they can pull it through pulling with both hands it is aok, others want it only to brush and not be resistant. If a pull it through kinda postmaster lets something through that gets tagged en-route as supposedly being a package that too can cause postage due.....

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lol! I have encountered both those types as well, the pull-it-through-with-both-hands type and the it-has-to-glide-through-on-its-own type.  I know it'll never happen but I still wish the slot was just a tiny wee mm bit bigger because so many things are honestly just a snick too thick but yet weigh next-to-nothing. 

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@ricarmic wrote:

It must be bad enough to prompt canada post to put procedures in place to recover the postage due.... interesting that they've got resources to do that but darned if they can't find a way to track stuff more economically..... 😉

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Amen!     

[jt-libra]

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@ypdc_dennis wrote:

Canada Post already does this for labels bought through their website. I suspect this is a case of getting the computer resources in place to charge underpaid postage back to the seller who actually bought it through paypal.

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You're right .... twice after I purchased a label through Canada Post, even though I had entered the correct weight and dimensions, I found an additional $2.00+ charge on my credit card.  It was explained to me that it was a volumetric vs gravimetric issue (I think).

What surprises me is that they're attempting to introduce this new technology during the busiest shipping season of the year.  Hopefully it goes smoothly and doesn't delay things.

[i.am.vivian]

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@jt-libra wrote:

(Late night watching the election results, so maybe my brain isn't working that well this morning )

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Naw, YOUR brain is fine.  That of the American people, um, well,   😞 

Hopefully it will make for interesting times.  😉 

[momcqueen]

Saw this message for the first time last night. Nothing subtle about it.

[momcqueen]

Wait, November 1? That screen must be incorrect. This was the second warning to appear on the same label purchase.

[sylviebee]

I hope they also plan on issuing refunds when shippers have overestimated and paid too much.

Sure, some of these "mistakes" are intentional but many or IMO most are not intentional.

The overestimates should almost equal the underestimates.

The notice from the PO is abrasive and accusatory because they didn't include the part about how they are going to refund overpayments......... Not!

[momcqueen]

I've certainly never deliberately underpaid postage but I would venture to guess that 99 per cent of us folks who use Payapl Shipping at home are doing so with a kitchen scale which isn't calibrated to the same extent as an actual postage scale.

I know that if I'm not careful with how I place my item on my trusty Starfrit special, it will tell me different weights.

Now sometimes, a difference of 15 grams in either direction matters very little. But other times, such as with Small Packets Airmail, it can double the cost to ship. So I wonder if some of this is as a result of some of that.

Regardless, some advance warning to the shippers in question might be nice. Like, if I am part of this problem, I would be mortified to learn it but I would also start asking the ladies at the postal counter to double-check my weights on acceptance.  Because they don't, they know me, scan it and take it to the back. If I knew there was an actual problem with my scale being a little unreliable though....

I play with it now to make sure I use the most it will weigh as my paid postage number. But if that was not enough, I'd like to know before I started getting fined for it, and labelled as a troublemaker. I'm really not, I'm a compulsive rule-follower. Although I will complain loudly if I don't like the rules, I do still follow them until I can affect changes to them. 

[momcqueen]

Also, I wonder if crummy home printers are contributing to the problem. I found this on Canada Post website: 

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/assets/pdf/business/barcode-label-quality_en.pdf

• In July 2015, Canada Post will introduce a $7 Barcode Label and Address Correction Fee that may be applied to Domestic and International outbound parcels and packets that do not meet proper barcode label requirements or show incorrect or invalid format address information.

And https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/assets/pdf/common/shippinglabels_poster_en.pdf

Can it be that too many Paypal Shipping sellers are applying their labels incorrectly too?

[pocomocomputing]

I have a Sunbeam Postal 2.5 kg postal scale for 10+ years and a Starfrit 5 kg scale for 7 years. Both are accurate within each other of 1 ram if not exactly the same. (I had two Starfrit scales, one I got for $5 at Value Village but I gave it away to my daughter to use around the kitchen. This Starfrit also measured with 1 gram of the other two.)

I verified the Sunbeam scale with the post office way back years ago. I brought in some packages (Small Packet, Light Packet) that were weighed on my scale and had them weighed at the post office when I went to mail them to compare. I was within 1 gram.

I then collected 4 smaller round stones of various sizes from the garden and cleaned and dried them for a couple of days inside. Then I weighed them on my Sunbeam postal scale and wrote on each in a black marker their weight in grams. I also weighed some small steel bars I had and wrote the weight on them.

To this day, my scales read the weight on my "standard" weights of stones and steel bars accurately, either right on or a gram off. I check my scales whenever I feel they might be off but never had an issue.

[rose-dee]

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@ypdc_dennis wrote:

I suspect this is a case of getting the computer resources in place to charge underpaid postage back to the seller who actually bought it through paypal.

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This makes sense.  Canada Post is probably looking in every dusty corner of their operations to try and find new revenue by closing gaps. 

There is probably a mix of sellers who are deliberately trying to cheat the system -- just a little -- and those who make honest mistakes.  Overall though, it must add up to a more than minuscule loss of income for CPC. 

[rose-dee]

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@pocomocomputing wrote:

I verified the Sunbeam scale with the post office way back years ago. I brought in some packages (Small Packet, Light Packet) that were weighed on my scale and had them weighed at the post office when I went to mail them to compare. I was within 1 gram.

I then collected 4 smaller round stones of various sizes from the garden and cleaned and dried them for a couple of days inside. Then I weighed them on my Sunbeam postal scale and wrote on each in a black marker their weight in grams. I also weighed some small steel bars I had and wrote the weight on them. 

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Ha-ha, I had to laugh at this.  I did exactly the same thing a few years ago, only I used a couple of tiny plastic boxes filled with old buttons and pennies and labelled them with their weights.  I didn't think of garden stones though! 

[jt-libra]

To no one in particular but whoever might be able to provide an answer to this.

I just purchased a PayPal label.

Winnipeg to Fort McMurray

Dimensions: 15x15x15 cm

Weight: 460 g

Cost $12.56

The label prints out 15x15x15 - Weight 0.652 kg

Now the additional weight should not bring the cost into the next weight range.  However, on the two occasions I was charged extra postage after the fact when I purchased labels through the Canada Post website, the weight shown on the label increased from something like 0.65 to 0.85 kg, resulting in the additional cost.

So, how are we supposed to deal with this if CP's new technology targets a parcel for which we had entered correct dimensions and weight?  Most of us do not know how to correct dimensions to comply with gravimetric or volumetric measure.

[momcqueen]

The weight displayed on domestic labels is volumetric. I found it confusing at first too. Don't worry about it.

Edit: If I have time later today or tomorrow, I'll come back to the thread with examples to illustrate my point. The gram weight you enter when purchasing will be converted to cubic when printed on the label. 

[jt-libra]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

The weight displayed on domestic labels is volumetric. I found it confusing at first too. Don't worry about it.

Edit: If I have time later today or tomorrow, I'll come back to the thread with examples to illustrate my point. The gram weight you enter when purchasing will be converted to cubic when printed on the label. 

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Okay, thanks.

My only worry is not knowing how CP's technology works.  I presumed that it could identify the correct postage required by the weight shown; however, if it can recognize cubic weight by the dimensions entered, then I have no reason to worry.  However, as I mentioned, twice I was charged an extra $2.00+ when the weight printed on the label was 25% higher than I had entered.

I'll wait to see your illustration.  Thanks.

[momcqueen]

Okay, I'll be sure to return with that information no later than tomorrow afternoon, likely sooner.

A few years ago, the weight that appeared on our domestic labels was the exact weight entered when we purchased the label. But then, for no particular reason, the weight displayed suddenly switched to the volumetric calculation.

I was taken aback, I emailed PayPal and Canada Post about that (not knowing it was volumetric, just thinking it was wrong) and neither seemed interested nor cared to respond. So I mentioned it here on the Discussion Boards and one of the other regulars pointed out the switch to volumetric weight displayed on the printed postage label.

I am not sure the reason you got a surcharge after-the-fact in the past; maybe they were fussing with a measurement that was half a centimeter longer than you purchased, or one gram too many. 

[i.am.vivian]

Can some kind sole here explain to me in 'real people' English what is meant by "volumetric" vs. "gravimetric"?   It sounds like a lot of sneaky gobbledyspeak to me, no real substance just a workaround way to say that a parcel weighs more than it does. 

How can jt-libra's parcel, which weighs 460 when laid down on a reliable scale, turn into 652 all of a sudden?  I don't buy that at all. 

[momcqueen]

Excellent question. One I cannot answer. Let us hope one of the others can offer a lesson, I'd like to know too.