Canadians not allowed cross border shipping to Americans ???

[dipmicro]

Yesterday I was at USPS at Lasalle and talked to a Canadian guy who ships out lot of CDs. He actually does not bring anything over the border except empty envelopes with labels.

I talked to this guy several times a nice fellow, I am sure we exchanged names, but I do not remember his name. Nonetheless, yesterday he told me what has happened to him when he was starting with this gig and it has been bothering me since.

He started coming through personal having only list of customers and laptop with him. When they asked for goods coming in, he told them he has nothing to declare. They found the list and gave him hell, apparently he is not allowed to sell to Americans, because he is taking job from someone in US who could do it and that is federal law. This apparently happened several times with several officers, they threatened to band him entry to USA, once they bounced him back and made him start entering through commercial even though he has no goods with him.

I am not sure what to make of it. We declare goods originating from USA selling them to Americans all the time and never heard of this. Unless I am missing something, NAFTA supports free flow of goods originating in NAFTA countries except some goods that require licensing, like weaponry or drugs.

Anyone can shed some light on this issue? I am sure officers did not make it up especially if more of them said the same thing, is this something related to music only? Or perhaps to personal entry only ?

Puzzled.

[topfitness]

I would personally think its more of a bunch of power tripping customs agents rather than actual law. Maybe next time you suggest to him to keep the list in eMail or something along those lines...

[bcbeautiful]

We have had similar issues with our other business...not our ebay business. We had a main warehouse in Seattle and used mini-storage in Blaine also as storage. We would go over the border weekly to p/u inventory, clear it through customs and store it in our garage.
Once my brother was stopped going into the U.S. He had a list of inventory he needed and a name of a man he was meeting to hire (an American). He was asked what he was exactly doing. When he said he was going to the storage and loading his van, the Customs official stated he was breaking the law. He was taking a job away from an American. We were to hire someone to load the van. My brother was detained for over 6 hours and had our van impounded. My brother was banned from the U.S. for 5 years. We tried appealing, but only went so far, as it was going to cost approx. $10,000.00
So we learned the hard way...about "breaking" laws in the U.S. (We were trying to decide to close the U.S. part of our business, hire another guy in the States, or ??.)
Decision was pretty easy for us to make at that pont. We closed the U.S. portion. Started landing containers from Taiwan directly here instead.
My brother still has problems crossing the border almost 10 years later.

[jakeeangel]

Cross border shipping isn't the issue here Dipmicro. It's the fact that he's a forgeigner running a US based business. When the goods are stored on US soil for resale to Americans, that's generally considered running a US business.

You're going in with product that resided if you will, in Canada. That's importing into the US. With the others, their product resides in the US and that changes the game.

[dipmicro]

So basically, if this person were to buy his stuff, run to Canada and immediately U-turn back to US, it would be all leggit ?

You are right, we store our goods in Canada. Although we do receive them in US, they always go through Canada.

I have considered US based warehouse at some point. I would either apply for US work visa or hire an American. But currently we do not have enough dough for the expansion after eBay changes end of March and summer is kind of slow so maybe in the fall.

[dipmicro]

I would personally think its more of a bunch of power tripping customs agents rather than actual law. Maybe next time you suggest to him to keep the list in eMail or something along those lines...

Actually, I did not realize when he buys the items in US, he may be actually doing business in the US even though the sale happened in Canada and like Jakee mentioned, we do import to US, which is protected by NAFTA.

Considering what bcbeautiful's brother went through, this guy is pretty lucky they just bounced him and let him continue if he does not sell to Americans. They forbid him to bring laptop because he could use it to print labels and ship to US citizens.

Thanks for clearing this up. I was considering renting a storage in US and fill some of the lines there, but considering the issue, I'd rather continue doing what I do and everything goes through Canada.

[bcbeautiful]

Thanks for clearing this up. I was considering renting a storage in US and fill some of the lines there, but considering the issue, I'd rather continue doing what I do and everything goes through Canada.

Yes, not worth the risk.

[craftycatsattic]

Cross border shipping isn't the issue here Dipmicro. It's the fact that he's a forgeigner running a US based business. When the goods are stored on US soil for resale to Americans, that's generally considered running a US business.

You're going in with product that resided if you will, in Canada. That's importing into the US. With the others, their product resides in the US and that changes the game.

I am trying to get my head around this to see if it applies to me.

From what I'm hearing, it is illegal to have a US warehouse and to ship items coming from that warehouse.

This is not the same as having items shipped to a US address and bringing them back into Canada yourself or taking items across the border to ship. Am I following correctly?

I am planning to use a freight forwarder across the border to have my US purchased items shipped to and then go pick them up myself. Books are heavy and I can save a bundle doing this. This should be ok right?

[jakeeangel]

Hi Crafty,

When you say go pick them up are you meaning pick them up to import into Canada or pick them up and do what with them?

If you mean that you're going to import them commercially into Canada from the US then that's fine. That's not the same thing as storing in the US and shipping from the US. We too have items shipped to a New York address and we pick them up and import them into Canada. They're stored in Canada and ship as they're sold.

Storing them in the US is what makes the difference because now you're conducting business on US soil as opposed to importing the goods into the US from Canada for mailing to customers.

I don't know if I'd use the term illegal but the US gov't considers you operating a business in the US and wants it's taxes from that business plus licenses etc.

Then you get the argument about taking away US citizen's jobs and that ticks some people off. I think that part though while partially true, is just a bias of the person saying it.

[bcbeautiful]

Cross border shipping isn't the issue here Dipmicro. It's the fact that he's a forgeigner running a US based business. When the goods are stored on US soil for resale to Americans, that's generally considered running a US business.

Just to be clear, our other company was only storing the inventory in the US...we were not selling to Americans. We only went over the border to pick up inventory and clear it through Customs.
They were only concerned about the loading of our van with the inventory to bring to Canada...that had to be done by an American.
We had an established US business in Seattle, with employees. We could have had one of these employees meet us in Blaine and help with the loading and then this would have been fine.

(We did this for over 10 years...until a border official asked a question to my brother about what he exactly was doing.)

[dipmicro]

(We did this for over 10 years...until a border official asked a question to my brother about what he exactly was doing.)

An irony. The law not only failed to protect jobs of Americans, but caused termination of existing ones. As far as I know the town of Niagara, NY lives of herds of Canadians shopping / doing some kind of business there. I was surprised, but businesses actually likes us there.

[bcbeautiful]

An irony. The law not only failed to protect jobs of Americans, but caused termination of existing ones. As far as I know the town of Niagara, NY lives of herds of Canadians shopping / doing some kind of business there. I was surprised, but businesses actually likes us there.

An irony, exactly. They were trying to protect a part time job, maybe 4 hours a week, loading a van with inventory.
Instead, we closed the Seattle warehouse. No more salesman, no rent, no insurance, no more income tax, no more utiliites, etc. We also stopped paying for storage and insurance for the Blaine location.
Oh well

[margeo29]

I sell thousands of dollars worth of goods to the USA every year and I think that this information is not correct. Don

[surplusdealdude]

Don, the problem is not selling the goods - this is not a Customs issue.

It's an Immigration issue - the person did not have a work permit to work IN the USA.

The Americans are really touchy about this issue right now, mainly because of the problems they're having with the Mexican border.

You cannot DO WORK in the US without a work permit.

You can bring stuff in from Canada and mail it, because that's international transport of goods and they have nothing to say about that.

See the difference?

[bilge21]

Don, the problem is not selling the goods - this is not a Customs issue.

It's an Immigration issue - the person did not have a work permit to work IN the USA.

The Americans are really touchy about this issue right now, mainly because of the problems they're having with the Mexican border.

Maybe one day the Yankees will realize we are NOT Mexicans, we are CANADIANS.

Wishful thinking.

Ever since 9/11, the US has gotten worse and worse with thier cross-border paranoia. One of these days, NAFTA will no longer exist because the US will declare it a security risk along with everything else.

While in some ways I cannot blame them, in other ways they will feel the backlash from the paranoia.

[jakeeangel]

Bilge21, what exactly do you think NAFTA has to do with crossing the US/Canada border?

NOTHING!

North
American
Free
Trade
Agreement

All that means is that there is no duty on items manufactured in the US, Canada and Mexico when going from one of those countries to another. That's it.

It doesn't mean you're free to cross whenever you want or bring in whatever you want or anything else. The ONLY thing it's for is to not have duties applied to goods made in the US, Canada and Mexico when going from one of those countries to another.

And of course they're going to increase security after 9/11. What on earth would you expect? They were attacked for crying out loud.

[dipmicro]

Bilge21, what exactly do you think NAFTA has to do with crossing the US/Canada border?

NOTHING!

Actually, NAFTA does not address just tariffs, it addresses, many more issues including people's mobility among others:

According to the Department of Homeland Security Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, during fiscal year 2006 (i.e., October 2005 through September 2006), 73,880 foreign professionals (64,633 Canadians and 9,247 Mexicans) were admitted into the United States for temporary employment under NAFTA (i.e., in the TN status) ...

But you are right, NAFTA does not mean someone can just go to USA and do whatever they want. We are still not entitled to work in USA unless have valid work visa. Maybe sometimes in the future they will expand NAFTA to borderless job marker, but current US administration seems to be anti-NAFTA.

[momoftwingles2]

Bilge21, what exactly do you think NAFTA has to do with crossing the US/Canada border?

NOTHING!

North
American
Free
Trade
Agreement

All that means is that there is no duty on items manufactured in the US, Canada and Mexico when going from one of those countries to another. That's it.

It doesn't mean you're free to cross whenever you want or bring in whatever you want or anything else. The ONLY thing it's for is to not have duties applied to goods made in the US, Canada and Mexico when going from one of those countries to another.

And of course they're going to increase security after 9/11. What on earth would you expect? They were attacked for crying out loud.

Hi Jakeeangel,

Thank you for pointing out the reason for the increased security. The US is my home country and 9/11 shook people (around the world) to the core. Do people like the increased security? No. But, do they appreciate it? Yes.

Susan

[momoftwingles2]

Actually, NAFTA does not address just tariffs, it addresses, many more issues including people's mobility among others:

According to the Department of Homeland Security Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, during fiscal year 2006 (i.e., October 2005 through September 2006), 73,880 foreign professionals (64,633 Canadians and 9,247 Mexicans) were admitted into the United States for temporary employment under NAFTA (i.e., in the TN status) ...

But you are right, NAFTA does not mean someone can just go to USA and do whatever they want. We are still not entitled to work in USA unless have valid work visa. Maybe sometimes in the future they will expand NAFTA to borderless job marker, but current US administration seems to be anti-NAFTA.

Likewise, Americans may not just come up to Canada and work either. They have to have a valid work VISA. And, Americans may NOT take jobs away from Canadians. If all things are equal...job is SUPPOSED to be offered to the Canadian candidate first as should be. Each country HAS to look out for its own.

Susan

[craftycatsattic]

Hi Crafty,

When you say go pick them up are you meaning pick them up to import into Canada or pick them up and do what with them?

Import them back into Canada. I was just trying to be more precise as technically, sending goods to any US address where they are being stored until you pick them up could be considered as storing them. I guess the fine details that differentiate is if you are having them shipped to a place you own and whether or not you are shipping the goods out from the US without them ever coming into Canada.

I am in awe at what happened to your brother bcbeautiful . They really drew a thin line!

When I go pick up my goods, I better make sure the freight forwarder loads up my van!